Talk:Thiruvananthapuram/Archive 1

Note
Please post new comments at the bottom of the page, or under the appropraite heading Anoop 14:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Thiruvananthapuram or Trivandrum?
Do people actually say "Thiruvananthapuram?" Or do they still call it Trivandrum? john k 17:44, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * IIRC &mdash; and it's been a few years &mdash; "Trivandrum" is only used for the benefit of Westerners, who may struggle with the correct form "Thiruvananthapuram". &mdash; jredmond 16:02, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Non-Keralan Indians don't struggle with the correct form Thiruvananthapuram? john k 16:42, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Not really. The name isn't Malayalam at all: it's Hindi, and derives from "Thiru" (Lord) + "anantha" (holy serpent on which Vishnu reclines) + "puram" (temple city).  Since "puram" is common in city names in all parts of India, since "thiru" and "anantha" are religious in origin, and since (like it or not) all Indians are exposed to some degree of Hindi, I don't expect that non-Kairali Indians will have problems with the "real" version of the name. - jredmond 16:54, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, have to disagree with you there. "Trivandrum" is not just used for the benifit of Westerners. It is often called "Trivandrum" even by the locals (I am one, so I know). Most Non-Keralans prefer to call it "Trivandrum" too and as someone has said below, "Thiruvananthapuram" is not Hindi. Unlike other name changes in India ("Bombay" -> "Mumbai" etc) the name Trivandrum has not died down.. And I don't expect it either. - Anoop 00:00, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Just because Anoop still uses the word Trivandrum doesn't mean that the bulk of the populace still prefer the anglicised name in favour of the original. Oh, and, it's not Keralan, it's Keralite. rohith 11:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The name Thirvananthapuram is not Hindi. If you concede that many (if not most) Malayalam words are derived either from Tamil or Sanskrit, "Thiru" has its origins in Tamil and not in Sanskrit.
 * &mdash; "Thiru" is part of many Tamil place names such as Thirunelveli and Thiruchendur; it is also part of many Malayalam place names such as Thirunellur and Thirnavaya. "Thiru" means something like "Sri" in Sanskrit. (A Malayalam word used for addressing a king would be "Thirumeni," which can be broken into "Thiru" + "Meni"; thus a loose translation would be "Respected Being.")
 * &mdash; The remaining part of the city's name, "Ananthapuram," could be from Sanskrit or Tamil. "Anantha," as the previous contributor correctly points out, is the snake that Vishu rests on. Not sure if "puram" is originally of Sanskrit or Tamil; it is used heavily in both. It means "place" or "city" and not necessarily "temple city." "Ooru" in Tamil means place; this could be why we have many sourthern place names like Coimbatore, Mysore, Thiruppur, Mylapore, etc. There are, of course, many other place names such as Kharagpur, Nagpur, etc., which likely came from a Sanskrit root.


 * Puram is from Sanskrit pura, as in Hastinapuram tc. Tamil-derived ooru is pronounced with a longer u sound.--Grammatical error 20:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Major changes
I have redone the entire page based on the guidelines provided the Wikiproject on Indian cities. The one thing still lacking are images. I cannot find many public domain images of trivandrum :( Anoop 04:53, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

More Pictures
This article looks much better now. I have added a map showing the location of the city within India.

We would need more pics from the city (Museum, Statue, Secretariat) SwiftRakesh 14:26, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

About the location map, I suppose the older one was better and more clearer right? Very difficult to actually see where Trivandrum is from your new map. The other one had an inset box, showing where Kerala was and the location of TVM was clear from that map. What's your opinion? I'm strongly for reverting back. Anoop 23:51, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

The location map is consistent with maps found on pages for other FA Indian cities, see Mumbai, Chennai, Kalimpong. SwiftRakesh 10:20, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok. All right. Anoop 12:11, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I found this image floating around as untagged, looks like the uploader took it though so it sohuld be ok to use if you can find a free spot for it. --Sherool (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Map of Thiruvananthapuram
The map doesn't look impressive. It will be better to add a map that shows major places in the City.

Largest City
Funny to see the observations from some guys!

It is mentioned in the article that Trivandrum is the largest city in kerala, is it true? Nandan

Please see Kochi and read the first sentence. There it is stated that Kochi is largest city. I also think Kochi is so --Sarathtly 8 July 2005 14:17 (UTC)

Please note when the change has came; Click Link []

--Sarathtly 8 July 2005 14:32 (UTC)

A city with length from Palarivattom to Thoppumpady and a narrow breadth(because of this, it is only 87 sq km) from Marine drive to Vytila

is smaller than

A city with length from Thiruvallom to Sreekaryam and breadth from Airport to Vattiyoorkavu.( I only used the approved city limits, not even Technopark, which is a big hub)

To understand this no body needs great wisdom and also we can recognize the disguised ‘Trivandrumites’.

Go to South railway station in Kochi, go to the police aid-post and ask for a pre-paid auto. The police man(Not the Autowallah! Offcourse) will say, “Up to Palarivattom you have to pay 34 Rs and rest you have to pay 1 ½ of the charge since it is out of city limits”.

Still not convinced?

Walk to the city corporation office and enquire the clerk, how many counsel members(which are based on population) they have.--Sathyalal 05:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Visit the link to see when the modification occurred - (Wiki Difference Page). The ipaddress is from Trivandrum itself.

IP address to location found using http://www.ip2location.com/free.asp

From my knowledge Trivandrum City is smaller than Kochi.

--Sarathtly 18:54, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes Kochi is indeed the largest city in Kerala. I come from Trivandrum & know for sure. Sorry that I missed it before. --Anoop

I am talking about the cities of Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi. You must have noticed the areas of Trivandrum and Kochi. TVM is 184 sq KM and Cochin is 87.5 sq Km. These are considered as the city area. In this city area TVM is having around 8.5 lakhs of population and Kochi is 6 lakhs. Some guys must have added the population of the near by municipalities with Kochi. If we do the same thing with TVM, it will have around 2.5 million populations

I will post the detailed information about the population in these two districts soon.

Also you must have noticed contradictory things in the cochin site Area 87.5 km² ,Density 10840/km² then how come a population of 1,660,000 is possible?

So we must help this site to show the truths, not as some promotions

Thanks, Sathya

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sathyalal (talk • contribs) 07:06, 20 April 2006.


 * Kochi does indeed have a population of 1.66 million as stated by the Kochi article and as referenced here, here and here. This is as per the Greater cochin census conducted in 2001. Also, according to, Kochi ranks as the 24th biggest metropolis in India, while Thiruvananthupuram is at 42. -- thunderboltza.k.a.D e epu _ Joseph


 * But still Trivandrum is the biggest corporation in Kerala--Altruist 09:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Either way, the density of population is a problem to be fixed. http://www.censusindia.net/results/miilion_plus.html has the population of Kochi as 1,355,406 and looks fairly authoritative. Tintin (talk) 09:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * See this http://cyberjournalist.org.in/towns.html .Trivandrum indeed is the biggest corporation in Kerala. And this population as on 1991 http://www.kerala.gov.in/dept_municipal/details.htm --Altruist 10:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I have copied the discussion to Talk:Kerala, as this spans data in three articles. I believe all further discussions on this topic can continue there. thunderboltza.k.a.D e epu _ Joseph 13:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Compared to the Census of India website, http://www.kerala.gov.in/dept_municipal/details.htm is not very trustworthy, because I've found many of their claims about population totals, harvest yields, and other things to be wrong. For example, it states that Kerala produces 5709 million metric tons of coconuts. Wow. Amazing. Only problem is that, in comparison, the worldwide annual rice harvest amounts to only 570.6 million tons. So it seems the government site is reporting that, for every kilo of rice the whole world produces each year, Kerala produces ten kilos of a non-staple crop like coconuts. Similar problems exist for other facts they report. Point: don't trust what they report unless it's backed up by a more proven source. Last point: it's generally considered bad faith to pervert consensus by marshalling a sock army (note that User:Sathyalal, User:Raj345, User:Wikialtruist, User:Jaleelmalik all show up the same day, argue the same issues, and edit the same articles). Saravask 02:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Also its interesting to see how much intersted are users like User:Deepujoseph,User:Raj345,User:Saravask in maligning Trivandrum, which is not gonna happen anymore ;) --Altruist 03:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Trivandrum is biggest among the five corporations in Kerala. Corporation itself has got a population of 889,191 and including the subburbs it has a population of 2.2 million. In the Cochin page the population including the muncipalities is given. Still there is a bug, if 90 sq km has got 1.6 million. Then what is the population dencity? I will post the population of corporations/municipals in these two districts with real gov site links

Kindly Note
Please avoid advertisements for educational institutions in this page. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia. 14:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Editing this page
It is unfortunate to see that some people are misusing the page editing feature to keep their interest arouse. The valueble details about the Vizhinjam port and educational institutions are allegedly removed from the page. These details are true according to the records and worth for the seekers.

Santhoshj 11:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

All the edits where done to make the article more compliant with the Wikipaedia Manual of Style. Kindly read below.  Anoop 14:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Reference to Kochi
Reference to Kochi is not needed here. Reference to Thiruvananthapuram is included in the Kochi page because, it is common to locate a place using the distance from the Capital. Mr.Alniko, Please dont take this offensive.

-- Rajith Mohan :) (Talk to me...) 13:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

no one way traffic
Such commonalities apply when a capital is the most important city visited by most. Just the opposite is true here - more people know Kochi. No need to pretend otherwise, In fact the name Cochin is more famous than name "Kerala". Still I am ready to forsake my right to refer to Kochi in Tvp'm page. If you insist on your way, fine, you will start the next brawl right away. No more on this topic - only give an takes.

Also to remind you, after feigning a deal if you you think, you can circumvent it thru' a "dikkoos", you need not even expect a reply next time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alniko (talk • contribs)

Kazhakoottam
See Kazhakoottam-correct spelling.Bharatveer 11:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Thiruvananthapuram
Dear Nik, Thiruvananthapuram is the largest city, capital city and prominent city. Look at all official Indian pages like Airlines, Railways etc.

Some more on the subject..

If you are trying to say that a park(in Kochi) with constructed area of just 4.5 lakh sqft(0.45 million) is the biggest in Asia and crying that people are not allowing you to put that information,what should we think of you? Let me ask one interesting question. If this was true then it should be the park with highest revenue or exports(or at least 1/10th of the major parks in the country). But why its revenue is a mere 65 cores? It is the smallest I have worked in India. Please try to be realistic. Please look at the mirror before blaming others.

Also be very specific and tell me what is beyond east of bypass(4 km from the center) in Kochi? What is there in the south beyond Marad(8 km from the city center). Towards the North east Kakkanadu(just 10 km from the city center) is like a remote village and is included in the population. Towards the north at least up to Kalamassery I agree that it is urbanized.Also towars the west(narrow width) it is urbanised. You have to consider that all these areas and beyond are included in Kochi UA population, even though they are less populated compared to Trivadrum suburbs.

Compare the same in Trivandrum, Technopark(this area is not inclued in the city population) is very populated area and is getting extended till Attingal(around 36 kms towards north). Tell me, in the stretch (City-Sreekaryam-Kazhakkutom-Kaniyapuram-Pallippuram) which area is not populated?Only up to Sreekaryam is officially included in the population. Similarly south of Trivandrum(Karmana-Balaramapuram-Neyyattinkara-Parassala) is very crowded till the border(around 40 Kms) and east extends up to Vattiyoorkavu and West up to airport. If the politicians do real justice(in fixing the boundaries), Trivandrum will be many times larger than Kochi(currently it is 4/3 times larger). -- Sathyalal Talk to Sathya 08:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)--Sathyalal 05:02, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Usage
The article uses Trivandrum at some places and Thiruvanthapuram at others. One of them (probably Thiruvananthapuram, since that is the title) should be used throughout. Tintin (talk) 07:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The name Trivandrum is still in common use by many people, companies, and organisations. For instance, Indian Railways is still using the place name as Trivandrum and station name as Trivandrum Central. Many public-private sector companies and a large percentage of people use Trivandrum to refer this city.


 * Anyways, the usage of both Thiruvananthapuram and Trivandrum is not at all creating any ambiguity here. Infact, it is giving the reader a strong impression that the city is still known as Trivandrum as well as Thiruvananthapuram.

Cheers,

-- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 09:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Some Info
What is the percentage of non-keralan people in Trivandrum?Are the People of kollam and Trivandrum with Tamilian roots a Majority?Recently ,some one from Shoranur said this is how they feel about extreme south kerela.Do Explain.thanks -saurav mukherjea  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.10.5 (talk) 09:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Merging 'Science and Technology' in to 'Education'
The section 'Science and Technology' in the article can be merged with the section 'Education'. I would like to invite the responses from the editors regarding this.

Thanks, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 12:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Obviously the list doesn't belong to the article. The S&T section should be converted into useful prose and merged to some section, preferably education. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 13:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Kowdiar Road Typical??
Hehe.. come on guys! You know that this is far from being true!! rohith 11:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC).
 * Yes.. you're right... Changed the comment on that picture. Thnx... -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 16:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Ponmudi
The Ponmudi article says it is 61 km away from the city. As such, I dont think the image is apt in describing the geography of Trivandrum. Perhaps the Vizhijam picture (which looks out of place in the economy section) can be used here? -- thund e rboltz(Deepu) 05:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree, Ponmudi is an important tourist destination to those who visit the city. And also to those who live in it.... But, yeah, I do agree that the presence of the Vizhinjam Port should be emphasized upon. Atleast then will visitors to this website know that the Central Govt. is trying to underplay such a strategically important site because of some peoples' personal intentions. rohith 06:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

People of Trivandrum - Trivandrumites (in English)
The people of Trivandrum are referred to as Trivandrumites in English. The user Bharatveer disagrees to this. As the article is now going on in WP:FA, it would be better if we stay back from unwanted edit wars. So I request other editors to discuss the matter here, and we can go ahead with the changing once a consensus is reached.

Agree - I agree to the usage. Personally I belongs to the area, and I am known to this usage. I have heard the usage in many speeches made in English. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 15:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Its not a question of anybody agreeing to this usage.Do you have valid references for the same?-Bharatveer 16:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Kerala Tourism, Chief Minister's Guest book, Opposition Leader's Guest book, commercial tourism site, News piece, commercial local site, etc. Moreover, by googling, i could find 211 results for the word. Most of sites retrieved were blog sites. This shows that the usage "Trivandrumites" exists and is used. It is not a non-existing word. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 16:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

" -ite : a suffix of nouns denoting esp. persons associated with a place, tribe, leader, doctrine, system, etc. (Campbellite; Israelite; laborite); minerals and fossils (ammonite; anthracite); explosives (cordite; dynamite); chemical compounds, esp. salts of acids whose names end in -ous (phosphite; sulfite); pharmaceutical and commercial products (vulcanite); a member or component of a part of the body (somite). "
 * In English language, the letters 'ite' is used to suffix the nouns for denoting persons associated with a place.

See these links Hope this will clarify your doubt about the usage.
 * Dictionary
 * Encarta

-- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 17:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Agree : I too support the usage of the word. It is similar to Kochiites or Keralites. . We need not be so stubborn in this issue. The mentioning of the word is not any thing which is a false information. And, as Rajith Mohan pointed out, the usage is there in English language. --Samaleks 14:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Agree: Having spent 25-odd years in the city, I feel that the usage is quite common, especially these days that there are a lot of people moving in from all parts of the country here and a sort of "lingua franca" is emerging, made of such terms. Ajaypp 14:32, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * See my point is that thiw word is not still a common usage.Not a single newspaper of repute uses this word yet. Therefore it is wrong to present it as a fact .-Bharatveer 04:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions by Taxman
1. It's got some awkward and possibly non-native speaker writing that needs a significant copyediting to improve, and turning colloquial phrasing into more encyclopedic wording.
 * May be beyond my capacity. If you can point out specific sentences, it would be more easy for me. --Rajith Mohan
 * Once the other issues are solved this part will be easy, but it doesn't make sense to work on this when #2 needs so much work. - Taxman Talk 13:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

2. It also still has a lot of statements of opinion that are not backed by sources a) "of India’s most literate and socially developed state", b) "however, much of this high potential growth would depend on the investment and trade union reforms of the government.", etc. Neither are forgone conclusions and need to be worded more neutrally or replaced with referenced statements.
 * a)Sources are added.
 * b)Sentence removed. --Rajith Mohan
 * This one's the real problem. Those two specific ones were just examples that jumped out at me. I'll see if I can make a list for you sometime today or tomorrow. But basically you need to look for any statements that are not common knowledge to anyone that doesn't know anything about the city, or statements that make a claim like "Thiruvananthapuram is a major academic hub." What makes it that, what evidence? Would everyone agree to that? Make the article factually stated, not presenting a viewpoint. "The number of mobile phone connections have increased exponentially since the late 90s". Exponential growth doesn't mean much if the growth rate is .001%. The statement just sounds promotional without some data. - Taxman Talk 13:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

3. What about the infrastructure? Water, power, sewage treatment, etc. It tells about the transportation, but nothing else. The coverage of transport is relatively too much and should be shortened to make room for discussion of other facets of infrastructure.
 * Other facets of infrastructure such as power, water, etc is included. --Rajith Mohan
 * But we still need more here. What is the reliability of the power, does it run for 2 hours a day? Same for the water. Also sewage treatment sounds picky, but it's something taken for granted in most cities in developed countries. Finally the infrastructure hidden in the middle of the demographics is strange. It should be at the end of the transport section called something like transport and infrastructure, or just infrastructure. - Taxman Talk 13:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: I dont think there is enough room in the transport section. The more apt place is Demographics section itself. The article should go by WikiProject India/Cities.
 * Demographics is definitely not the right place for that. And hmm, it looks like that project's guidelines need some improvement. But they don't support the infrastructure being in the demographics section either. - Taxman Talk 15:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

4. The education section lists some schools but doesn't tell us about the overall quality compared to national and international standard, or even the literacy rate.
 * Done    --Rajith Mohan
 * You've got literacy rate, but other than that I don't see anything about the overall quality. - Taxman Talk 13:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

5. Demographics could be expanded to discuss poverty and wealth distribution. I hope that's enough for starters to help you improve further, though this is well on it's way.
 * Not available now. I am searching for the official statistics. Getting detailed and authentic information will be possible only in my next visit to Thiruvananthapuram city.   --Rajith Mohan
 * I can't see why some users are wary of edits meant to improve. The article has not yet been thoroughly checked for typos and it teems with hollow words. History section omits very important events. Phonetic transcript is absolute nonsense. Those who are eager to remove the clean-up tag may please address these defects first. Kundan After Sundown 10:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know much about the city of Thiruvananthapuram, but I do know about Malayalam and the IPA, so I updated the transcription of the city's name to match with the IPA's standards and with the Romanization scheme used in the Malayalam language article, as has been done for other major world cities with non-English names. --SameerKhan 10:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

False and selective history
It appears that the history section of Thiruvananthapuram as well as the patchy and worthless article History of Thiruvananthapuram suffers from extremely biased selection. There is absolutely no mention of Sir C. P. Ramaswami Aiyer's oppressive rule and many instances of state terror. An eventful period is simply glossed over with a statement "with the end of the British rule in 1947, Travancore chose to join the Indian union", which hides more than it tells. Kundan After Sundown 06:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Better to discuss this in the talk page of History of Thiruvananthapuram. You can go ahead, provided you cite them to official/reliable sources. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 16:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Golf course
There are a few articles onlines which claim that Tvm course is second oldest in India. They claim that it was established in the 1850s, but every one (Official site,, , , etc) of those articles also say that it was founded by Maharaja Sreemoolam Thirunal Rama Varma. He was the King from 1885 to 1924. The King in the 1850s was Uthradam Thirunal Marthanda Varma. It is impossible that it was established in 1850s and by Sreemoolamthirunal. Tintin (talk) 06:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Wait a minute. The article claims that it is the "oldest" in India. But Royal Calcutta Golf Club has been around since 1829. As mentioned above, even the claim that it is the second oldest is suspect. Tintin (talk) 07:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

FA?
I have had a quick look through the article. There are many points that need to be addressed. I feel that if we tackle one section a day, then it could reach FA quality in some time. I would be happy to help out. I could have done this myself, but being from an entirely different part of the country, I cannot help with adding information and references. I can only help with the prose, style and checking the references. If any editors are interested then please leave a message on my talk page. - Aksi_great (talk) 07:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Swati Tirunal, violin, Ravi Varma etc.
Who introduced violin in Carnatic Music? Certainly not this rajah. See
 * Ravi Varma's global recognition sounds ridiculous. One award from abroad for one painting gives no global recognition. Kundan After Sundown 17:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup tag
To User:Kundan After Sundown,

The cleanup tag is used in wiki, in cases where the article needs cleanup in the following areas :


 * 1) You aren't sure whether something should be merged, deleted, or expanded.
 * 2) Needs formatting, proofreading, or rephrasing in comprehensible English.
 * 3) Multiple overlapping problems.
 * 4) The article is very short and might need removal or merging with a broader article

In this article, only No.2 is the needed activity.

Normally, the cleanup tags are included in the article, where there are no bounded editors attached to the project. But, for this article, there are a few editors, who are available upon any kind of request for improvement. So, a cleanup tag is not required in the article. It can be well discussed in the talk page itself. And I bet, you will get immediate attention from any of the attached editors.

And, thanks for the copy-edits in the article. Good effort :) -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 16:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I beg to differ. Sections need re-writing to remove bias or gain balance. Thorough proof-reading and copy editing is necessary. Typos and stylistic incosistencies remain aplenty. And what not, many of the sentences in history section are extemely poor re-work to get around copy-vio of the PRD website's poor and unreliable content. (Ex. Can you provide any reference for the existence of the city during Ay dynasty?). The editors available are not plainly upto their job! Tag is clearly in place. Kundan After Sundown 17:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This is INDIA. We have to follow the official sources like PRD sites and GoK sites. Because, they are "considered" to be reliable. We dont have much information from reliable 3rd parties on internet.
 * And, it is better to reach a consensus from the editors attached to the project, before jumping in to conclusions. In wikipedia, the official sources (the contents from the Government sites) are considered more reliable than other private sites. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 18:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not an Indian project and serious history is not always something available on WWW. Misconstruing statements from third rate writing on PRD website can't improve your history (discussed elsewhere on this page). Some of the editors associated with this article seem to be too hasty to close all discussions and run away with their laurels. Repeated removal of clean-up tag while showing incapability of proofreading and copyediting and replacement of citation tag with false references clearly demonstate this.Kundan After Sundown 01:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

History: dispute
Here is the relevant excerpt from the PRD webpage: "Thiruvananthapuram city and several other places in the district loom large in ancient tradition, folklore and literature. South Kerala, particularly the Thiruvananthapuram district, had in the early past a political and cultural history which was in some respect independent of that of the rest of Kerala. The Ays were the leading political power till the beginning of the 10th century AD The disappearance of the Ays as a major political power, synchronised with the emergence of the rulers of Venad." Unscholarly and vauge as the text is, to construe from that "the early rulers of the city were the Ays" is a misadventure.
 * To date the tradition back to three millennia, some editors have relied on the suspect argument of a cheating website. (The website which claims that it is the original website of the Ministry of Tourism at least admits that it discontinued to be so, but some editors don't care!).
 * The PRD webpage which is invoked to state that the early rulers of the city were the Ays, doesn't say anything about city's existence during Ay dynasty or it being ruled by Ays.
 * Existence of Ay kingdom is a disputed theory.Kundan After Sundown 02:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Says who? -Bharatveer 04:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * User Kundan After Sundown (lOl) -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 05:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't need to answer stupid comments. However, since my last point in the original section sounds a bit ambiguous I would provide this explanation. It is not the existence of Ay dynasty that I dubbed disputed. It was one Shanku Aiyer, a historian, who diputed the theory of Ay domination upto 10th century. He called Ezhini Athan, considered as an Ay king until then, the first king of Venadu. He cited the reference to "Vanchiyoor Kulapathi Ezhini" that could not have been an Ay king. Shanku Aiyer argued that Ay dynasty's control was restricted to a few areas south of Vizhinjam by eighth century. This might sound like invention to those editors totally ignorant of the history of Thiruvithamkoor. They can refer the Thriuvithamkoor article in Vishwa Vinjana Kosham (the only comprehensive and scholarly encyclopedia in Malayalam, published three decades back and heavily obsolete about most of the subjects other than history). They can also look for Shaku Aiyer's Kerala Charitrathile Chila Anjatha Bhagangal Kundan After Sundown 06:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Kundan After Sundown, I am afraid that you are jumping in to conclusions with some biased ideas that you have. First of all, the History related to Ays, is listed in almost all government sites. You cannot just assume that the facts listed there is wrong. You have to prove that using valid sources. And the theory you pointed out is the perceptions of one historian. The Government sites usually reflects the most followed Perceptions.. You cannot just add tags to the article which is a Selected Article in the Indian Portal. It is advised that you discuss the matters in the talk page here. And you can go by the consensus. So, please stop the irrelevant edits. Also, I feel that your user name is quite vulgar in Malayalam. I request you to change the user name. --Samaleks 06:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is my reply.
 * First of all, the History related to Ays, is listed in almost all government sites.


 * *Reply- Do "almost all government sites" deal in history?
 * You cannot just assume that the facts listed there is wrong.


 * * Reply- Even if the site has correct information, the page has it wrong.


 * You have to prove that using valid sources.


 * *Reply- Your criterion of validity?


 * And the theory you pointed out is the perceptions of one historian. The Government sites usually reflects the most followed Perceptions.


 * *Reply- may be "usually", but not always. The poorly written piece on the site in question shows how much the government cares for presenting history.


 * You cannot just add tags to the article which is a Selected Article in the Indian Portal.


 * *Reply- Which policy bans it?


 * It is advised that you discuss the matters in the talk page here.


 * *Reply_ I have discussed every point I wanted changed unlike those editors who indulge in revert wars.


 * And you can go by the consensus. So, please stop the irrelevant edits.


 * *Reply- You can't judge alone. Most of my edits have stayed in spite of the hostility of a few editors for well known reasons.


 * Also, I feel that your user name is quite vulgar in Malayalam. I request you to change the user name.


 * Reply:Tush tush tush! Was Kundan Lal Saigal a very vulgar fellow? What horrible things he did?

Kundan After Sundown 08:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well nobody is wrong here. Depends on the Malayalam pronunciation. If the letter 'd' in this case is pronounced as in the word 'under', the resulting word may not sound good in Malayalam. If it is pronounced like 'th' as in the word 'that', which is the intended pronunciation, everything is fine. Esskay 19:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Can someone check the Viswavijnanakosam anyway ? It is one of the "must reads" before attempting a major encyclopaedia article on any subject on Kerala. Tintin (talk) 08:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Ay Dynasty
Ay kingdom existed in south Kerala, and ruled with Vizhinjam as the capital. King Vikramaditya Varaguna is a notable name in this dynasty.

You can refer to a site named varnam.org, which is a discussion forum of historians and history aspirants. I am providing some urls for you. This will surely help you in knowing more about the Ay Kingdom and history of Kerala.

Indian History Timeline History through coins Vishnu temple of Ay Dynasty Oldest fort in Kerala Ay dynasty sometime between 7th to 11th century AD with Vizhinjam as the capital.The Ay dynasty ruled the land between Nagercoil and Thiruvalla

If you are not satisfied with the above site, you can go for the book Kerala State Gazetteer- vol. II, Part .I by Adoor K.K. Ramachandran Nair(First edition: 1986), which is a keral government publication.

The theory of Shaku Aiyer (which you narrated earlier) may be correct. Because history always go after assumptions and biased thoughts. But here, we should follow the most accepted theory.

Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 18:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

fraudulent website
The article cites as reference a fraudulent website allegedly of Tourims Ministry of India. The official website of Ministry of Tourism is this. Tourism Ministry of India That settles the dispute. Now we only need to see if the editors whot stick to this falsity is going to remove it.Kundan After Sundown 08:39, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Excess of Unnecessary Details
There is too much unnecessary and irrelevant details in the article. It would be a good idea if those who contribute or edit, first take a look at articles on other cities of the world. Or look at the article on Kochi, which has been fairly well done.

Why do people writing here think the readers have to be drowned in all kinds of petty details? For example, are the readers really interested to know that the city is electrified? Do they really want to know KSEB has so many circles or divisions? Or about how many transformers it has?

Perhaps it would also be a good idea to have the readers in mind when contributing to or editing the article. Esskay 21:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear Esskay,
 * The details are not petty details. Those were added in a later stage, when the article was undergoing Featured Article Candidature. The excess details were as a result of the review comments associated with it. And the purpose of an encyclopedia is not just touching the details, but to provide a comprehensive information of the subject. Therefore, the details provided such as power, water, sewage, etc, definitely satisfies some set of readers, who looks for those details. All these comes in the infrastructure and facilities of a city. Moreover, there is no rule that the structure of one article should follow the structure of the other.
 * Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 13:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

No one has said there is any rule that the structure of one article should follow that of another. Pointing to better quality articles is not to say there are such rules, but to refer to them as good models that can be emulated. From where does the idea that the purpose of an encyclopedia is to fill an article with every minute detail about the subject come? Check out any professionally done encyclopedia and you will see how focused the articles are on the subject matter and they don't go into such minute details. (Now, if you are going to say there is no rule that the structure of one encyclopedia does not have to follow that of another, I can only say that you just fail to get the point.)

Details such as the number of transformers etc. are relevant in a report by KSEB about their infrastructure in the Trivandrum or in a book someone wants to write on the same subject, but not in an encyclopedia article about the city. I see this amatuerish eagerness to describe every sandpebble and every blade of grass a lot in Indian and Kerala topics. So you say these minute details satisfy some readers? So what? Describing every shop on the street would also satisfy some others! They are also part of the city, aren't they? It does not matter whether or not the details are the result of "the review comments associated with it." That doesn't make them sacrosanct. There is a clear warning by Wikipedia before submission of articles that if you don't want your articles to be mercilessly edited, then not to submit it.

Please, let us use some common sense (and maturity?) and strive to have some quality in the article! Esskay 21:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, I would like to add here that I don't see that happening here anytime soon as it appears that those behind this article want to keep it as their personal preserve. I tried. But I don't want to waste anymore time fighting youthful obstinacy. Esskay 22:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Esskay, You said, " It does not matter whether or not the details are the result of "the review comments associated with it. That doesn't make them sacrosanct. " I am sorry to disagree with this remark. Here, we go by the consensus. The article take its shape with the remarks from several users. The so-called excess details got added during the review time in WP:FA. Since the other editors too agreed to that, I was forced to add the details. Any ways, we are trying to create a sub-article on the Transport section, and then, the excess details will be moved there, thus trimming the section. The details in the demographics also will be moved to a seperate section. Thank you for taking much interest in the improvement of the article. We are not in to any unnecessary fights with other editors... Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 12:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Rajith Mohan, let me try again by outlining what I understand is the policy of Wikipedia: Wikipedia actually asks people to be bold and edit. It suggests consensus, but doesn't say it should be the rule. Reverting is allowed, but not repeated reverting. When disputes arises, the parties are encouraged to invite a larger number of editors to air their opinions and seek a consensus from them.

Consensus on general editing may be a good idea, except for the fact that it somewhat conflicts with the exhortation to be bold and edit. From what I see, you don't want anyone to edit here without a consensus for every change and it seems to be the consensus of the same three or four persons who seem to want to want to protect whatever is already there. If you really believe in consenus, why not let a newly edited version, though edited without consensus, stay for a while to see if it would be disputed, instead of arbitrarily resorting to wholesale reversion?

The way I understand it, consensus is not absolutely essential to contribute or make every change. If there are disputes, the way to resolve them is clearly described. Esskay 21:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Again, to Rajith Mohan: While I agree with you that the structure of one article does not have to follow that of another, I would again urge you and others behind this article to take a look at some good articles as examples. I was just looking at the article on India. If you wouldn't mind to take a look at it as well, you will notice not only that it is a generally well crafted and it is not crammed with minor details, excessive statistics and excessive description of topics. While you are at it, please also look at the talkpages to see where they discuss about the length of the article; you would find it interesting. Esskay 17:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Sub articles and improvement

 * I think that sub articles to Transport should be created, and thus should trim the transport section in the main article. Also, I would like to draw thoughts on the infrastructure details of the city. The infrastructure like power supply, water supply and drainage system got added in the article to satisfy certain comments raised during the FA candidature. I too believe that it is needed in the page, since it reflects the infra details.
 * An user, Taxman, suggested that the details of electricity, water, etc should be moved from the Demographics section to the transport section and the section heading should be renamed as "Transport and Infrastructure".
 * Note that the inclusion of more facets of infrastructure of a city other than transport is not supported in WP:INCITIES. Well, I believe that we should update the project guidlines too.

Any comments on these points? -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 15:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It is one thing to mention infrastructure details, but it is another to go ad nauseum about it. I repeat here what I said elsewhere about excessive details. Someone sitting somewhere other than Thiruvananthapuram and looking up the article on Thiruvananthapuram is not concerned about how many transformers are in place or how many electric poles there are in that city. Nor are they looking up the article to know exactly which airlines fly there or their flight numbers, not to mention how many traffic lights there are. They just want general information. The information need be comprehensive only in the sense that it covers important aspects, not in the sense that you have to describe every little thing. The venue to discuss the fine details should be elsewhere, not in the pages of an encyclopedia.

As I have suggested elsewhere on this page, it would be a good idea to look at good articles on other cities and learn from it. Esskay 18:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hello, Someone is vandalizing this article. I removed the following paragraph from the future prospects section: Thiruvananthapuram is generally a backward city and there is a political tendency to blame [Cochin for this. Subscribers of this idea are found to be a minority, but they still try to promote activities like glorifying Thiruvananthapuram whenever possible and show Kochi in poor light. Wikipedia pages are also regularly subjected to such organised manipulations by these groups. Dr Mullet 15:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your deletion of the vandalised sections. Infact, this is done by by TrueVersion, who is a sock puppet of blocked user User:Alniko-Talk. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me...) :-) 05:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Free Software Foundation among Research Institutes in Tvpm
Free Software Foundation among Research Institutes in Tvpm? How come? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thejasmanoj (talk • contribs) 12:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

WikiProject Dravidian civilizations
Wiki Raja 11:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Moved User:Mathewin's comment to the talk page
The current scenario in Trivandrum / Kovalam / Vizhinjam Real Estate & Property        [http://trivandrumrealtors.com]

Trivandrum Real Estate and Trivandrum Property prices which were speculative in certain areas have softened, due to the lack of purchasing power of the people. In such areas, the land value was inflated, mainly due to the marketing hype and selling techniques of builders who want fresh transactions in new properties.

Properties for sale are fewer in number, as the owners have either opted not to sell / hold on.Construction costs have gone up considerably. When reselling, only land value appreciates, and construction has depreciation based on age.

Price of land is going up in the panchayaths with urban outgrowth, especially, the main roads adjoining the proposed outer ring road of Trivandrum City. Regulations are lax in panchayats and life is of better quality as pollution is less and there is no overcrowding.

Several Central Government Projects are proposed in Trivandrum which are expected to be implemented soon. Vizhinjam port is proposed as a trans shipment terminal, which will be located at a distance of almost 20 km. away from Trivandrum Central. Central Government has plans for setting a world-class shipyard in 1000 acres in Poovar.

A large scale SEZ is coming up at Nanguneri in Tirunelveli. However, the nearest International airport is at Trivandrum, and Vizhinjam the nearest seaport. This factor could also give a boost to Trivandrum real Estate and Property.

This means the next growth in Trivandrum Real Estate and Trivandrum Property is going to be in areas on the link roads from Trivandrum city to the proposed new NH - Vizhinjam - Ambasamudram - Tirunelveli - Tutricorin which connects Trivandrum to the North South corridor.

Trivandrum as capital of Travancore had traditionally been connected to Nagercoil and Tirunelveli districts for several centuries. Even today, almost every items required for Trivandrum, be it flowers or rice, comes through the NH 47 from Nagercoil & Tirunelveli. Several residents of Trivandrum have property / estates / farmland in Nagercoil and Tirunelveli.

The fact that major IT companies have started retrenching their staff / salary cuts is bound to affect the Trivandrum Real Estate and Trivandrum Property prices in Kazhakkoottam / Technocity area as technopark employees will be thinking twice about the future repayment of loans for purchasing plots and properties.

New laws against conservation of paddy field and wetlands and preventing their filling and conversion for other purposes,means that Trivandrum Real Estate and Trivandrum Property market will have fewer 'original land' plots and properties for sale and hence prices may hold steady.

Trivandrum is the best place in Kerala for a relaxed / retired life. Less polluted, excellent medical care facilities are some of the factors. Perhaps, it could be one of the best places in the world to setlle down. Several foreigners who settled down at Kovalam cannot be wrong!!

Moved User:Mathewin's comment above. -- Avinesh Jose  T  07:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

BCE-CE Vs BC-AD
Since BC ("Before Christ") and AD ("Anno Domini", "In the year of the Lord") represent a Christian Point of View, i have replaced it with their secularized versions ie. BCE ("Before Common Era") and CE ("Common Era") in the entire length of this article keeping in tone with Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Before any reverts to this pls discuss in here. Thanks. Arjun (talk) 18:23, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Vehicle codes that are not registered within the city
I have removed the vehicle codes : KL-16, KL-19, KL-20, KL-21, and KL-22 from the article page. These codes are registered under the following RTOs: Although these are in Thiruvananthapuram district, they are not falling under the city limits. I have retained KL-15, which is used for KSRTC for the entire state, but is registered in Thiruvananthapuram. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 09:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * KL-16 : Attingal
 * KL-19 : Parassala
 * KL-20 : Neyyattinkara
 * KL-21 : Nedumangad
 * KL-22 : Kazhakuttam
 * KL-15 is registered in Trivandrum but that does not become a Trivandrum specific service, does it? Please clarify. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:16, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The infobox carries the vechicle code registered in the city. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 06:29, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

hills in trivandrum
what are the seven hills in trivandrum —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.172.112.130 (talk) 08:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

1. Paruthi kunnu (cotton hill) 2. Kanaka kunnu 3. Chetti kunnu (near kunnukuzhy area) 4. Barton hill 5. Kunnumpuram 6. Paravan kunnu 7.

I can remember only this much —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.221.207 (talk) 08:22, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Airports in Thiruvanathapuram
the article states 'There are also two military airports, one near the civilian airport and the other at the Southern Air Command headquarters of the Indian Air Force at Akkulam'. Is it verifiable ? , I have not heard of these military airports while I was in Thiruvanathapuram. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulielmus estavius (talk • contribs) 07:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The military airport is at Shanghumughom, along with the civilian airport. I am not sure about any airstrip in Aakkulam. This should be verified and removed from the article, if not correct. --Samaleks (talk) 17:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the airport at Shanghumuhom is used by the air force as well as civil airlines, so does it make two airports one civilian airport and one military airport?
 * As regarding the airstrip at Aakkulam, google maps I could not find any sort of construction resembling an airstrip there, A seaplane could theoretically land on the lake though!.
 * Gulielmus estavius (talk) 18:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I have heard of a small helipad in the Akkulam Airforce property, but that does not qualify to be an Airport. Moreover, there are no verifiable sources of information reg this. It is ridiculous to say things like "2 Military Airports" when the truth is far from that. This calls for removal. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:13, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If we go by the Wiki article, then we have to call Helipads atop commerical or residential buildings (if they do exist) and the helipad at Varkala, also airports. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:15, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Percentage of Software Exports
Is there any reliable source of percentage split of software exports happening from Technopark, Infopark and others within Kerala. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnTek (talk • contribs) 05:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The reference is provided in the article itself, from the Kerala Planning Board. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 03:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * According to http://www.hindu.com/2010/08/17/stories/2010081765270300.htm, read with http://india.gov.in/allimpfrms/alldocs/15403.pdf, shows that Infopark and CSEZ have a share of 33% of exports. So, the 80% number is obviously incorrect. Technopark is 57.5%, so the number for Trivandrum would be somewhere between 57.5% and 67%. Please edit the incorrect information —Preceding unsigned comment added by DileepKS69 (talk • contribs) 02:14, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

DileepKS69 (talk) 02:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * DileepKS, Thanks for pointing out some references. As per the Kerala planning board publication, 75% of the IT exports are from Technopark. Please refer to Chapter 21, page:502, section:21.8. It says that the total export is 1800 crore in 2009 (refer to page:503, section 21.13, table:Key Highlights). I think the planning board publication holds more validity than the news paper report. Since there is a mismatch in the figures quoted by Hindu, I will try to get more accurate figures. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 05:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Rajith, the Hindu report is for FY 2009-2010. Planning board report is previous year, ie FY2008-09. Also, the number in the planning board report is not substantiated by the break up, while the hindu report clearly gives the break up. It would be great if you can get the details.

DileepKS69 (talk) 06:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Dileep, The planning board report is for the year 2009. It says that the exports from IT companies based in Technopark is 1800 crores till sept.2009. I don't think that the exports came down. Hindu report says that the export from Technopark was 1,385 crores in 20090-2010 and 1,355.75 crores in 2008-2009, which is definitely different from what Planning board report says. Hindu new paper can be considered as a valid one if we donot have more valid references to cite. Just for the reason that the planning board report is not giving the break up, Kerala Planning board report cannot be wrong, as it is an important document in the governance. Anyways, as promised, I will try to get more accurate details. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 07:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Rajith, if you read the introduction of the quoted review, the other chapters of the same, and also the previous reviews, it is clear that the economic reviews are for the financial year. EVERY economic and financial document of the govt is per the financial year, so it is inconceivable that the planning board would mix things up just for this chapter. Each of the previous reports state the turnover on the FY basis. That leads to the speculation that the upto 09/09 means the turnover from 04/08 to 09/09.

DileepKS69 (talk) 10:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Sir, I never said the report is not for FY2009. Read my reply again. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 10:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Dileep,I don't think a newspaper report can be considered as an authenticated information to put into wiki. Please prove yourself that the news report in Hindu is a genuine one. --SereneThrissur (talk) 11:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Serene, if that is the case, half of the information in most of the pages would have to be deleted. Kindly show me the rule/convention that says report from a reputed national newspaper can not be used as reference. You can't determine the credibility of the source based on whether you like the information or not.


 * Rajith, if you did mean FY2009, then you would readily agree that the upto 09/09 qualifier means it is the turnover for 04/08 to 09/09, which doesn't contradict to the notion.


 * The Hindu quotes "According to figures provided by Kerala IT, a State government initiative to promote the IT industry", and the report is by a staff reporter. Give some credibility to the century old news paper please.

DileepKS69 (talk) 12:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Dileep, For an argument i can say Malayala Manorama is a reputed paper in Kerala but many don't have the opinion that whatever they write is a genuine one. In similar lines i can also put forward the same point in front of you - "You can't determine the credibility of the source based on whether you like the information or not." Here you liked the the information written in Hindu so you are are trying to justify that. Here the age of a newspaper doesn't reflect the authenticity of a news. --SereneThrissur (talk) 15:21, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Here are my arguments:


 * The Hindu is a reputed newspaper. There is no record of them falsifying data anywhere.
 * The Hindu have no apparent reason to be biased on this datapoint.
 * The report is by a Staff Reporter, and quotes the source, which is IT Mission.
 * The report gives precise numbers. There is no apparent reason for the paper or the reporter to fabricate the entire numbers.


 * I believe that gives enough credibility to the news.


 * The Eco Review is for FY2008-09. The report is for FY2009-10. So, the data in the report is newer. The odd datapoint of 1800crores till 09/09 is clearly the amount from 04/08 to 09/09, since the report period id 2008/09.


 * Now, unless you can provide credible data that gives 2009-10 numbers, I believe the Hindu report should be considered credible.

DileepKS69 (talk) 04:38, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Whatever points you mentioned are your "belief" which doesn't need to be fact. You are just arguing for an unknown staff reporter using some silly points. If you can file an RTI and argue based on that data i will fully agree with you. --SereneThrissur (talk) 05:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, Serene, you are entitled to your belief that certain news items are credible, and certain items are not. Unlike you, I am not going to do an edit first, talk later policy here.


 * Rajith, unless you get information more credible than the report, I would like to add it back to the Kochi page. Please confirm.

DileepKS69 (talk) 05:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Still you couldn't prove that the details in the report are credible !! You are just doing a verbal fight to justify that the news is credible which is not at all acceptable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.0.195 (talk) 06:56, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello DileepKS, The news paper report can be used for reference in wikipedia articles. However if there is a better reference, we should not stick on the newspaper reports. Please see the figures reported by various news papers. Even Hindu is contradicting with Hindu business.

Even the report from Hindu (the reference you provided) is not matching with the IT exports published by Kerala IT mission. Since we have the information from Kerala Planning board, which says 75% of the software exports of the state is from Technopark, why are you insisting to go with inconsistent newspaper reports? The report from the government planning board supersedes all other references. I hope you too concur and go in harmony with this. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 07:16, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Raise your concerns/suggestions here
Dear new users, I appreciate your contributions to the article to make it better. Since there are many active users who are attached to this article, you can always raise your concerns and put your suggestions in the talk page before directly making changes in the article. This will help to scrutinize the concerns and suggestions and to stabilize the article from frequent updates. This will also reduce the chances of edit-wars in the article. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 03:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

1. Military Airport - the statement which says "There are also 2 military airports..." is totally misleading. There is a small helipad at Akkulam which does not qualify as an airport. At Shangumugham, military aircraft do park but does not have a separate runway or terminal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountainwhiskey (talk • contribs) 05:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC) 2. Mukkunimala is not a hill resort in reality - despite the sources mentioned. Even Govt sites are not entirely reliable. It is only a hill and not a resort or station. FYR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountainwhiskey (talk • contribs) 05:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC) 3. Underpasses - There has been plan for only one underpass and that was built sometime in 2004/5. Mentioning Several Underpasses again is misleading and wishful thinking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountainwhiskey (talk • contribs) 05:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC) Hello Mountainwhiskey, I have asked to raise concerns over here. This will give the other editors some time to look in to it, and provide citations, if necessary. Please try not to remove things hastely from the article. I am reverting the changes you made to the article for the time being. Once your concerns are not addressed within two or three days, you can remove it from the article. You can also think about adding the "citation needed" tag instead of removing things. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 08:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Added the citation needed tag. Will wait for few days for a valid citation before it can be removed. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 05:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * May be, but the reference from a govt. site says so. I agree that even gov sites are not so reliable, and so I am inviting the opinion of other editors here. If we reach a consensus on removing Mukkunnimala, we can do that. Till then, the info should remain. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 05:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing about wishful thinking. Nobody is trying to promote any thing here. I have removed that information. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 05:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

MountainWhiskey (talk) 03:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No one; can be removed. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 08:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Urban Poor in the City
I notice that the city page does not talk about the urban poor of the city. This class of the populace is as important as the rest, so it must find its place in the article.

The City Development Plan submitted by the Corporation to JNNURM provides ample information in this regard. http://jnnurm.nic.in/nurmudweb/toolkit/Trivanthapuram/5PartCD.pdf. Since this page is regularly and expertly attended by senior editors, I request them to review the said information and enrich the page with the information of this important and indispensable part of the populace, rather than hazarding an edit attempt myself. The document provides images as well, which should make the article more rounded and accurate in its visual representation of the city, to quote the recent advice of a senior wikipedian.

DileepKS69 (talk) 06:16, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestion. Will surely, look in to this. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 03:44, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, it's a pleasure, Rajith. I was starting to think that you were away, and whether to hazard a proposed edit here myself. Now that you are looking into it, I will holdoff. DileepKS69 (talk) 04:39, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Good job, Rajith. Please add the image from the report also http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rajaji_Colony_Trivandrum.jpg, so that it make the article more rounded and accurate in its visual representation of the city, to quote the recent advice of a senior wikipedian.

DileepKS69 (talk) 02:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I have taken this to the personal talk page since it is a one-on-one discussion. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 05:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * A verified image of chenkal choola colony is available on commons now. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Trivandrum_Chenkal_Choola_Slum.jpg Please add the image to the page, so that it make the article more rounded and accurate in its visual representation of the city, to quote the recent advice of a senior wikipedian.

Thanks. DileepKS(talk) 08:06, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Is World Gazateer a Reliable source?
This is not to dispute anything on the page, but I find that at least one entry in the World Gazateer page, which is reference No 1 (currently) on the page, to be out of whack. It says Kochi had a population of 564 589 in 1991 and 266 898 in 2001, then estimates 249 107 in 2010. I suggest that the use of such sources doesn't look good on the page. DileepKS69 (talk) 03:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The world gazateer is a valid source, though not fully reliable. The census figures from the census website is considered more reliable and accurate. In case of any anomalies with gazateer, the census site would be the final reference. Gazateer is used as citation in majority of the wiki pages, as it provides all the info in a single page, where as the census web-site provides in dynamic pages without changing the url address. See the history of List of most populous cities in India here : page history. I have moved Kochi up the list citing the actual census figures. Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 09:23, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Transport Edits
Binoy/Rajith, I have a few observations on the transport section.


 * 1) NH-47 runs from Salem to Kanyakumari, not the other way around.
 * 2) Buses from it go to all major towns and villages in the State. Weasel word.
 * 3) It is considerd as one of the best airports in the country is a weasel word, and there is a spelling error in it.
 * 4) the flights can be operated on all weather conditions is not the right way to put it. The fact of the matter is, the airport does not get bad weather.
 * 5) operating with big jets is weasel word, and looks amateurish. That whole sentence doesn't look good grammatically.
 * 6) It is to be built in three phases, and expected to be a key competitor in the ports business (especially for container transshipments), with the international shipping lanes between Europe and the Far East lying very close to the port, and also with major ports like Colombo, Kochi and Tuticorin in close proximity.[71]. Very long unstructured sentence. key competitor with shipping lines?
 * 7) To ease the strain, several multi-million dollar construction projects are now underway including the construction of flyovers.. This cites a news from 2004. It should be updated with the current status of those projects. Also, several multi-million dollar almost qualifies as a weasel word. An approximate number that is referenced would look nice.
 * 8) 42 km of six-lane and four-lane dual carriage ways needs citation. Details of the project, at least end points, would be nice.

Thanks,DileepKS(talk) 01:22, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Added: Please update the main article on transport also. The airport section is completely outdated there.

DileepKS(talk) 01:26, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Multiplexes
Some of the article says Thiruvananthapuram has currently no multiplexes. A multiplex is a movie theater complex with multiple screens. There is already a movie theater complex called SL Complex in Thiruvananthapuram with 4 screens named Athulya, Anjali, Aathira and Aswathy. All the 4 theaters are in the same building. There was also a theater complex known as Ganga complex in Attingal with 3 screens.

Kochi has a cine multiplex Oberon Mall with 4 screens. Also the first multiplex in India, PVR ANUPAM in Delhi, which was opened in 1992 have also only 4 screens. Then why the complex in tvm was not considered as a multiplex???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.110.101.198 (talk) 17:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The single distinguishing factor that defines multiplexes (and separate them from multi-screen movie houses) is the facility to buy tickets of any movie from the same counter. If that is available at the SL complex, it can be termed as a multiplex.

Sarita/Savita/Sangeetha at Kochi was the first multi-screen movie house in the state. Shenoys/Little shenoys was the first duplex. DileepKS(talk) 01:59, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dont say foolish things. In Bangalore multiplexes like Innovative issue tickets to a movie only from a specific counter. You cannot buy ticket for another movie from that counter. Multiplex is nothing but a new name given to relatively small multiple cine halls in a single complex. You can also make theatre complexes like SL theatres or Sar-san-sav theatres to multiplexes by just marketing so. In short, there is no hard core rule for a multiplex other than the fact that all screens should be in a single complex. Also, may I know when Sarita/Savita/Sangeetha at Ernakulam was started? Was that just a wild guess or do you have any proof? And what you mean by duplex? How you defined that?


 * Well, there is no rule that defines a multiplex. I just mentioned a convention that suites the majority of the multiplexes. For wikipedia, a good rule would be to call a complex a multiplex if the firm themselves uses that term to refer themselves. So, if the SL complex is calling themselves a multiplex, the same could be referred to here in the article.


 * The sarita complex in Ernakulam started around 1980. I remember the news coverage of that, and later that of the four screen complex at TVM.


 * duplex means two screens in a complex.

DileepKS(talk) 11:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * If duplex means two screens in a complex, TVM has now 3 Duplexes with 6 theaters. [Dhanya & Ramya], [Kairali & Sree], and [SreeKumar & SreeVishak].


 * There is no special term for Multiplex. The word multiplex means multiple separate units. In the case of theaters, it means a building, especially a movie theater or dwelling, with multiple separate units. That means a theater with more than one screen which shows different films can be considered as a multiplex. The historical Elgin Theatre in Ottawa is considered as the first multiplex in the world. Nathan A. Taylor, opened a second screen on a patch of land adjacent to the original 1935 theater in December 1947. At first, the same program played in both theaters, but several years later Taylor became annoyed at having to replace films that were still making money with new releases. He thus put different shows in the two theaters, that two films could be shown at once and Taylor is credited as the inventor of the multiplex. He also created one of the first movie theater in a shopping mall, which was the dual-screen at Yorkdale Plaza in Toronto, Ontario, in 1964 and one of the first in an office building. This is the history of multiplex.

So the SL Complex can be considered as a Multiplex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.69.149.240 (talk) 17:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Remember, wikipedia doesnt hold any opinion of its own. Wiki policy states that it is not a place to publish our own thoughts and analyses or to publish new information. It is not a soap box to write promotional stuff (check here : Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox_or_means_of_promotion. You can't make claims on Wikipedia. If you can bring in a verifiable source that calls the SL complex as a multiplex, you can use that information in the article. Without that, wiki policy doesn't allow it.

DileepKS(talk) 02:13, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

It is not someone's thoughts.

Don't be so foolish!!!! What is the need of the references here??? and what promotes here??
 * An institution for health care providing patient treatment by specialized staff and equipment is called a Hospital.
 * A designated parking location where a bus or coach waits out of service between scheduled public transport services is called a Bus stand.
 * A venue, usually a building, for viewing motion pictures is called a Movie theater.
 * Like all these, a movie theater complex with multiple screens is called a Multiplex.

There is no need to provide references for health care providing patient treatment is called a hospital or and a venue for viewing motion pictures is called a Movie theater & what really promotes here??

49.14.106.213 (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Multiplex is not a generic term in the class of Hospital or Bus stand. No one asks for reference for the latter because there will be plenty available if you look for. Show at least one verifiable reference that calls the SL complex as a multiplex, then I would agree. Your persistence on this issue leads me to believe that you hold a biased POV, which is unacceptable in Wikipedia.


 * BTW, I am assuming that the various IP Addresses above are from the same editor. It would be easier to discuss with a user name.


 * And, it pains me to point out that being civil in the discussion is a key requirement in Wikipedia.

Thanks. DileepKS(talk) 12:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

The ip 115.69.149.240, 49.14.106.213 and 27.97.22.211 are mine here. I don't know who are the rest ip's. I am contributing Wikipedia for about 3 years. I mostly read articles and participate in discussions rather than editing the article.
 * as i am contributing mostly from cybercafes, i dont think creating an account is secure. I also dont want to create an account for this particular discussion.
 * How do you say that Multiplex is not a generic term? Multiplexes are common in very small cities these days. Even big megaplexes are coming in many cities. An example is Multiplexes in Kochi, which is comparatively a small city in India. The city has so many multiplexes. Chennai and Bangalore has numerous multiplexes. It is very common and the term has no special powers. It is just a term.

Please understand that there is no rule for a multiplex other than the fact that all screens should be in a single complex.^ There is only a rule in the case of Megaplex; theaters above 20 screens may be branded as a megaplex.

Why are you arguing that SL complex cannot be considered as a multiplex?? Can you say what is the point that it cannot be considered as a multiplex?? At first you argued that if the facility to buy tickets of any movie from the same counter, the SL complex can be termed as a multiplex. From this every one can see who is biased. It is just a simple name. 27.97.22.211 (talk) 16:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanx for clarifying the IPs. Wikipedia allows editing under IP, so it is perfectly alright.


 * My stand on this question is clear. Wikipedia does not support original research. Nor does it have an opinion on its own. Show a reference outside Wikipedia, and then you can call it a multiplex. I have nothing more to say on this.

DileepKS(talk) 00:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

may i know when was the first duplex in kerala started? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.12.235 (talk) 15:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You don't have nothing more to say on this. Because your arguments are weak. It is not original research or of fact. There is no need to say National highway 17 (India) is a road or New york is a city and Harry Potter is a novel. 27.97.164.196 (talk) 17:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Shenoys/Little Shenoys opened in 1970, but that is offtopic here.


 * Google is your friend. Do a search on NH-17, New York or Harry Potter. You will see thousands of hits saying it is a Road/City/Novel respectively by reliable reference sources.


 * Now, do a search (online, offline, literature) on the SL Complex and see. Is there ONE reliable reference that calls it a multiplex? If so, cite that and edit the article. You can't? Hold your peace till there is a reference available.

Cheers

DileepKS(talk) 01:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

sorry to interrupt; but Sreekumar/sreevisakh was started in 1950 in Tvpm. How you said that shenoys was the first duplex in kerala? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.140.45 (talk) 02:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I stand corrected. It is offtopic anyway.DileepKS(talk) 04:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you saying that reference is needed to prove that NH-17, New York or Harry Potter is a Road, City or Novel???????? Search The Grand Cinema or Broadway Cinematheque in Hong Kong which are two multiplexes. You will get a few or you will not get any references stating that it is a multiplex. But you will get lot of references saying it is a Cinema complex. Because they use most commonly the word cinemas for theaters and they use cinema complex. 115.69.153.113 (talk) 14:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Did you actually google? Because the second result I got said something like The Grand Cinema, Shaw Brothers' $100 million multiplex.

The information on wikipedia should be verifiable. You are trying to push a POV, which is not acceptable here.

DileepKS(talk) 01:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

DileepKS(talk) 01:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

The Shaw Group and Multiplex Cinema Ltd is a multiplex company like cine max or adlabs in India. It is not about the theater in the Kowloon MTR station, Hong Kong. And what about the Broadway Cinematheque?? You will get a few valid references by googling. Because the people there uses the word "Cinema complex" instead of "Multiplex" widely. By using another word no one can say it is not a multiplex!!.

Like this in the case of SL complex, search for theatrical complex instead of a multiplex, you will get plenty of references. Some sites also mentioned it as a multiplex. See this, this and this. 115.69.147.135 (talk) 04:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Reference needed here is to prove the SL complex has multiple screens. See this.


 * The description in those sites can not be taken as reference in an encyclopedia. There are plenty of mention on this page itself about the importance of references and also the importance of NPOV, and unacceptability of original research. By the high standards established by the senior editors here, what you propose is not acceptable.


 * The SL Complex is NOT referred to as a multiplex in common use. That is a fact. You are just trying to push a POV, which is completely against the principles of Wikipedia

DileepKS(talk) 05:27, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't said it could be taken as a valid reference. As i said above, Multiplex is a theater complex with multiple screens, reference is needed to prove that SL complex has multiple screens. and there is a plenty of references stating that it has 4 screens in the same building.

You said that SL Complex is NOT referred to as a multiplex in common use. But we cannot say it is not a multiplex. I already said about the common name usage. (About The Grand Cinema and Broadway Cinematheque). You are saying again and again the same thing.


 * Yes I see plenty things in this page itself about the importance of references and your NPOV. (I also seen your talk page. From all these, i think you are from Kochi and you want to glorify your city. (It is in this discussion also. ie, "Sarita/Savita/Sangeetha at Kochi was the first multi-screen movie house in the state. Shenoys/Little shenoys was the first duplex", "The sarita complex in Ernakulam started around 1980. I remember the news coverage of that, and later that of the four screen complex at TVM." etc..) 112.110.125.229 (talk) 07:45, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

A lot of assertion had been made of pushing POV, despite the use of verifiable reference. Here you are trying to push a POV even without any reference. It is unacceptable in an article.

Let me also note that this page is under watch of very senior and experienced editors, and none have supported you. That does show something.

This discussion ends here. SL Complex can not be called a multiplex in the article. I believe each of us had made their points, and the matter is clear to anyone reading this.

Nice talking to you.

DileepKS(talk) 09:41, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

How can you end the discussion?? You did not clarified the answer to my question, what is the need of references to prove a multiplex is not a multiplex?? also i pointed out valid references that it has multiple screens here. So SL complex can be called is a multiplex. So the matter is clear to anyone reading this.

Let me also note that this page is under watch of very senior and experienced editors, and none have supported you also. 112.110.116.8 (talk) 10:21, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, they supported neither, so let them make a call. DileepKS(talk) 11:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, let's wait for other persons responses for some time..... 27.97.183.127 (talk) 08:15, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I think, the issue is very silly. Multiplex is a relatively new term in India. The SL complex, since they have 4 screens, technically can claim that it is a multiplex theatre. But the SL complex is known since years as a theatre complex, and never used the term "Multiplex" even in their advertisements. In that case, it is not appropriate to add it here. -- Aarem (Talk) 08:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, the issue is very silly. Thank you very much for your opinion. For all these days of discussion, now i got an useful and understanding answer.

In the case of India it's a new term, its OK. But remember that Wikipedia is used world wide. And most of the countries uses the term multiplex.

Also, The term theater complex is used as multiple theaters in a specific area. It can be in a building or in the same compound with separate buildings. (See Sheffield Theatres). Since multiplex is used widely (as in the whole world), as theaters in the same building and the SL complex have theaters in the same building, it's better to add multiplex than a theater complex. 115.69.134.138 (talk) 16:47, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * In India people think that multiplex is a complex with so many small theaters in a building.

that's why the Oberon mall in Kochi is called a multiplex and SL complex is not. Oberon mall has a seating capacity of 180 to 200 in each screens. But the SL complex have seating capacity 800 to 1000 in each theater. (anjali and athulya has seating capacity over 1000) and i think it was started around 80's, when the people in India was never heard of the word "Multiplex". But see Udayam Theatre, a multiplex in Chennai. There was a few sources which says it is a multiplex. but the term is used in the article and nobody has objected. (maybe someone will object now :))

Also the Oberon mall is operated by CineMAX, a multiplex company in India. they advertise there theaters as multiplexes while the SL complex is operated by Private individual owner, we can see very less amount of advertisement about the complex. But the people who knows about the correct term of multiplex often uses the complex as Multiplex in some blogs, forums and information's etc (which lacks verifiability).

But technically, SL complex is a multiplex. 112.110.122.183 (talk) 17:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Percentage of Software Exports, Updated
Thanks to the advice by senior editor Rajith, I moved RTI and received the following numbers in response. Technopark: 1350 Crores, Infopark 614.78 Crores and CSEZ 197.98 Crores. This information disproves the 80% for Trivandrum and 75% for Technopark numbers widely used on Wikipedia articles. The number can not be more than 62%. I am working on the rest of the data points to arrive at an accurate percentage number, but that is no justification to retain the obviously false information.

Copies of the RTI shall be made available upon request for verification.

Please edit the incorrect information on all the articles. Thanks

DileepKS(talk) 03:54, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Good effort. I appreciate that. I have also filed RTI before a few months to get the IT export figures of Kerala. But the figures from TP was not very accurate. It covered the exports only from around 72 companies and accounted to around 1280 crores. This figure is not the complete one and major companies like Suntec Business solutions, IBS Unit 2, US Software Unit 2, etc were missing.


 * Also the IT exports from Technopark during 2007-2008 were 1200 crores. And now you got a figure of 1350 crores in 2009-2010 (when I filed the RTI before a few months, they gave me the figure of 1280 !!). Only a mere increase of 150 crores in 2 years!! ? Did you receive company wise breakups? If so, please check if all companies are listed (including the names I mentioned above). -- Aarem (Talk) 07:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I have requested clarification on these already to Technopark. However, the fact remains that, in order to qualify for 75% number, Technopark should have done more than 2400 crores, which is impossible. My point here is, the available verified data clearly tells us that the claim of 75% is incorrect, so that must be removed, while we work to obtain the right percentage. It would be proper to use a qualitative word like "majority", "more than half" etc than a quantitative word such as 75% in view of the given information.


 * Let me also mention that your trying to defend the incorrect statement would make you look bad if/when the number ultimately comes the way that was originally asserted based on the Hindu report. I am not insisting on the edit, but I am suggesting you do it, in the best interest of the ideals of Wikipedia.

DileepKS(talk) 08:05, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Not needed now, as the article relies on the Annual Report from Government of Kerala. This has been already discussed. I suggest you to wait for a few more months, till things are more clear when information will be published in the Kerala IT mission website. Note: you need not worry about saving my face, as my face wont get bad in this virtual world :-) Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 08:36, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, you are a senior editor, and I don't want to drag on when you insist on retaining an assertion that is prima facie incorrect. Let us see what kind of evidence would be sufficient to satisfy you.


 * Virtual world has virtual faces, and virtual faces could get virtually bad. If the virtual you won't virtually mind that, well, I virtually don't care :-)

Cheers DileepKS(talk) 09:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Virtual world has Virtually virtual faces, and virtual faces could get virtually bad. If the virtual you won't virtually mind that, well, Virtual s don't care :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.97.164.196 (talk) 16:54, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Year - Galveston - Thiruvananthapuram sister city
Does anybody know the year which Galveston and Thiruvananthapuram become sister city? Binoy (talk) 06:08, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 1995 Samaleks (talk) 17:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

1994 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.14.89 (talk) 14:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)