Talk:This Is It (Michael Jackson concerts)/Archive 1

Earnings for Ten shows
The article states that Randy Philips has said that Michael Jackson will earn 50 million pounds from just the first ten shows. However the original source does never explicitly stated the amount is for ten shows. In fact, if one does some calculations of the ticket earnings per night, it would seem unlikely that it is true. This mistake might be due to fact that the tour originally consisted of only ten dates; however that's not to say Randy Philips wasn't planning on more and wasn't basing his estimate on the later announced 50 shows. In fact, the numbers would seem to add up if this was the case

Agreed. This should be rectified. -W —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.162.202 (talk) 02:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no way of proving that though. We have no idea what was going on in Philips or Jackson's minds/contracts. All we know is that Philip stated that the dates (at that point 10) would earn the singer £50 million. Philips did state that he had reserved a further 20 dates for Jackson (if the public demand was there), but we have no way of proving this was included in the figure. Further, Philips is on record say that he, or no-one for that matter, expected there to be 50 sell out dates. So clearly Jackson is being paid something extra for the last 20 dates no-one originally expected. More than likely, Philips (or Jackson) will issue an updated figure at some point. — R  2  12:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Like you said, there is no way of knowing what was on their mind. Therefore, since he never explicitly said "for 10 dates", it would be incorrect to include that phrase in this article
 * No, the announcement of the 10 dates and the £50 million came at exactly the same time (well about 5 hours after the 10 dates were announced). When he said £50 million there was nothing to suggest that this included additional dates. — R  2  18:43, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But that would mean that an AVERAGE ticket price would be 500 freaking pounds. You're probably sane enough to realize this would be beyond impossible. Right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.157.174.152 (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously AEG Live intend to recoup millions though travel/restaurants/accommodation etc. It's also likely that they attracted him in with a big offer, hoping Jackson will agree to other projects them. — R  2  19:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Links to use
Cheers for the links. Do you know which website will be selling the tickets and their payment method; Paypal/Mastercard etc?  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 15:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.nme.com/news/michael-jackson/43235 March 5th, warning issued about fake tickets and press conference at O2
 * http://www.inthenews.co.uk/entertainment/music/fans-await-announcement-michael-jackson-dates-$1274924.htm hundreds of fans attend press conference
 * http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2009/03/04/michael-jackson-has-50-medical-tests-to-prove-he-can-manage-02-arena-dates-115875-21171604/ Major TV promotion will be arriving shortly (March 8th)
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7925388.stm Poster promo by march 5th.
 * http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/michael-jackson/news/100481-jackson-set-to-announce-shows 5,000 fans
 * No. I'm not sure we can include that sort of info anyway, because it might be seen as us promoting the concert. — R  2  16:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I see, was asking for my own use anyway. Seems MJ's running late with the conference. :|  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 16:38, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

What's a "Euro Dollar"??! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.226.112 (talk) 10:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's goon now. — R  2  13:26, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article5854735.ece i love michael, but 16 thousand hits a second doesn't sound right, and there is a quote on this page saying 16 thousand a minute... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.248.125 (talk) 08:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If looked around, and the majority of sources say seconds, not minutes. According to recent sources the figure topped a million in 24 hours. Clearly there was a lot, be it in minutes or seconds. But the consensus of the sources seems to be seconds. — R  2  11:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

23 000 000 people per day? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.248.125 (talk) 07:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously that was a peak, it wouldn't stay like that for ever. — R  2  14:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Title
The title should be "This Is It", which seems to be the title of promotion. — R  2  17:55, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't it seem a little awkward that the title of this is described as "Michael Jackson Concerts". Wouldn't "Michael Jackson Tour" be more suitable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raudys (talk • contribs) 01:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Music
Though I understand that no set list has been announced yet, Michael stated that he would be "performing the songs that fans want to hear". Perhaps we could mention this in the article? I would add it myself though I do not wish to edit anothers work, especially when the article is progressing well. FenrirRising (talk) 20:19, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well maybe we can add that if he does give a choice in the matter latter on. He might of just said it in the spur of the moment, he was clearly taken aback by the warm reception, the exact wording of the speech didn't seem pre-planned. — R  2  20:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Promo banner
The promo banner is wrong, they say it starts on July 09. However the date changed to 08 in time for the press conference. In my opinion we should remove the banner until they update it, to avoid drama. Note that the main website says July 08, just like the media. — R  2  15:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * So are we removing the banner or keeping it in with the explanation? The original file was going to get deleted anyway - for being orphaned.  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 15:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * We can keep it for now, the explanation should clear up any confusion people have. When they get around to correcting the poster we can change the pic. I believe it's tonight that he's staging that long advert on ITV. If someone watches the advert, look out for the date. :) — R  2  15:25, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll be watching it. I think this is it (no pun intended), for anyone who might miss it.  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 15:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think so, nice video. And it says July 08 :) — R  2  15:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The 09 is more than likely the year. — R  2  20:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

20 more dates added in 2010
See the Ticketmaster website at http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/Michael-Jackson-tickets/artist/945764?tm_link=michael_jackson_link1

20 dates have been added in 2010, finishing on 24 February. Could this be seen as the second leg? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.202.121 (talk) 21:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This has not been confirmed by Jackson, so it can't go in the article. — R  2  21:43, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha, now it has! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.37.255.46 (talk) 12:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * :) — R  2  12:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know why there was a 3 month gap between the fall 2009 and winter 2010 shows? Timothy Horrigan (talk) 00:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the table a little redundant?
Why do we need a table at the bottom? The venue's are the same, the capacities are the same, all the tickets will sell out. Seems completely unnecessary. — R  2  15:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, no real point in it.  Pyrrhus  16 ''' 15:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree also. Why not have a bullet point for each month, with each date next to it? I.e.


 * July: 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.121.202 (talk) 20:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The table will probably be removed soon. — R  2  20:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The sooner the better :-). I assume it is a standard table fortours, but it really does look silly. A list of dates in 3 columns would look much better imo.YobMod 20:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Especially as all the dates are sell outs, this is already summed up sufficiently in the prose. — R  2  21:06, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've cut it down to just the dates, in two groups of 25. — R  2  14:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Fans voting on the set list
I have seen at MichaelJacksonLive.com that we can vote for songs that we would like to see perform. Is this worth adding to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.194.223 (talk) 16:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's only worthy of mentioned if third party sources are discussing it. Hopefully they will. — R  2  17:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Article to add
Take a look here: http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1037304

Michael has set more records in Tixdaq's weekly charts, the first time one artist has pulled off such a feat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.37.37.145 (talk) 15:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have read it, and did consider adding it. However I couldn't actually find much on the notability of the Tixdaq chart. — R  2  19:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Magic trick articles to add?
I found these two articles about Michael and David Copperfield planning a magic trick on stage at the concerts. Are they worth adding? Of course, it no Jackson tour is complete without the magic trick!

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/009200904011231.htm http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article2352810.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.242.171 (talk) 17:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Firstly this has not been confirmed by Jackson or AEG Live, secondly it's April Fools day. The media always make up rubbish when it comes to Jackson, this date just gives them an extra excuse. — R  2  17:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

The O2
The O2 Arena has a maximum capacity of 20,000 for end stage concerts not 23,000! Wneedham02 (talk) 17:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Billboard say's otherwise. — R  2  17:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And you say that "says" is written with an apostrophe. Does it make it true, though? Ha! It doesn't. The O2 Arena does *NOT* have a capacity of 23,000 people, no matter how you put it. You can sit down people on the stage right next to MJ and put one spectator into his lap and there still wouldn't be 23,000 people in the building. I know that certain press releases or articles mentioned that "23,000" number, but that doesn't make it true, does it? If some on-line article claimed that there 102 cm in a metre, would that automatically make it true? It's known how many people can fit into the O2 an no bloody press release can change that fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.157.174.152 (talk) 18:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please remain civil and remember that Wikipedia works on verifiability, not truth. — R  2  18:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed. If reliable sources described a meter as 102 cm, and none contradicted it, that is how we would describe it.  While your personal knowledge is insufficient citation, it may help guide you in searching for appropriate sources. -- Thinking of England (talk) 03:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Useful links

 * http://www.wharf.co.uk/2009/06/aeg-chief-celebrates-two-years.html

Concert Dates
I agree with User:Super Goku V that information such as the planned concert dates should not be deleted but be kept for reference, and flagged as the originally scheduled dates where appropriate. -- Thinking of England (talk) 02:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Cancelled or Presumably Cancelled?
Are there any sources indicating that AEG Live has officially cancelled the shows yet, or is this only (reasonable) supposition? As far as original research goes, I suppose that this is fairly innocuous. -- Thinking of England (talk) 04:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, the best I can come up with until there is an official cancellation notice is,"All 50 events will presumably be cancelled." At first I thought this invoked weasel words, but then I decided that it wasn't much different that phrases such as "missing and presumed lost". The Times article I cited made no indication that a cancellation has been officially announced, but clearly indicated that the author presumed that this would happen. -- Thinking of England (talk) 07:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm giving up on maintaining this wording in the face of edits claiming cancellation and reimbursement as fact. Real information should be coming out about this before too long, so I'll just keep the statement flagged with a until references about official cancellation and reimbursement become available. -- Thinking of England (talk) 08:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Refunds
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6580748.ece

Financial impact of the cancelled dates for AEG Live. Includes details of full refunds being offered to ticketholders. --Madchester (talk) 03:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:Madchester. Note that this article states:
 * AEG Live’s website said that fans who could not make the dates rescheduled after the opening dates had been cancelled would get a full refund. That promise will now be honoured for one million customers.
 * This doesn't state that AEG Live has yet indicated refund plans for the complete cancellation, but appears to be extrapolating from their statement regarding the rescheduled dates. -- Thinking of England (talk) 04:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And now this reference is being use as support that refunds have been announced. Please read the entire reference.  It states that, at the time the article was written, the concert was still be advertised on the AEG Live web site.  It then describes that refunds had been offered for the rescheduled dates and that, "That promise will now be honoured for one million customers".  Clearly from the context this is poorly worded, and the author meant, "That promise will now need to be honoured ...".  I don't think that this one sentence, taken out of context of the entire article, can be used to support a refund announcement.  Who's to say that this won't bring about a bankruptcy and full refunds will not be available.  Likewise, initial dates might not be cancelled, but could instead be converted to a memorial concert.  I'm not claiming either possibility is likely, but no announcement regarding cancellation or refund has been made yet (or, at least, no reference to such an announcement, or even inside information, has been provided). --  Thinking of England (talk) 09:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Beeb update on ticket situation --Madchester (talk) 12:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. This references says that refunds or exchanges should be available according to the appropriate terms of service once the cancellation is made official.  Seatwave indicates that the official announcement has not yet been made, and explicitly states
 * At this time, we would like to reassure you that your Michael Jackson ticket purchase is fully covered by our TicketCover™ guarantee. Once an official cancellation has been announced, you can claim your complete refund by downloading our claim form through the link below.

-- Thinking of England (talk) 13:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Seatwave's announcement has changed to:
 * At this time, we would like to reassure you that your Michael Jackson ticket purchase is fully covered by our TicketCover™ guarantee. You can claim your complete refund by downloading our claim form through the link below.
 * So presumably the cancellation is official. Do we have a reference?  I no longer find MJ advertising on the O2 site, but I don't see any announcements there either. -- Thinking of England (talk) 00:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

More stories are coming our discussing the financial implications for AEG and the Jackson Estate.
 * http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE55P3PT20090626
 * http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUKTRE55P0Q520090626

The former story again mentions that AEG has not yet issued a cancellation or refund notice, but only:
 * a brief statement on Jackson's death and added: "A further announcement for ticket holders will be made in due course."

-- Thinking of England (talk) 15:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The O2 arena web site is now showing a notice stating:
 * Full ticket refund information and procedures will be released early next week for all Michael Jackson "This Is It" shows.

-- Thinking of England (talk) 05:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

The O2 webpage mentioned above has been updated stating "full refunds will be available to fans who purchased tickets through authorised agents" and that "These refunds will include all ticket service charges". "Ticket holders requiring information about receiving a full refund should go to www.michaeljacksonlive.com from Wednesday 1 July 09." It also states that "fans will have the option to be sent the actual tickets they would have received to attend the shows in lieu of the full refunds which are being offered." -- Thinking of England (talk) 01:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Less than three weeks before the first show was to begin, Jackson suffered a cardiac arrest and died.
a little blunt?
 * Not really. Just stating the facts in an encyclopedic manner. -- .: Alex  :.  16:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced 2010 North American tour note
An IP editor just made this unreferenced addition:
 * It was also stated that during the summer of 2010 he was going start the North American leg of the tour. The dates were going to be announced on late august of 2009. Some of these dates included 18 shows at the Madison Square Garden, in New York City, and 5 shows in Mexico City.

I tagged it with a and then did a web search, but I can't find a reference to plans like this. I will remove this paragraph until a reference is provided. -- Thinking of England (talk) 09:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Searching a bit more, I see that when only 10 O2 shows were planned, AEG Live president Randy Phillips said, "the ten London concerts would mark the first step of a three-year tour and the release of a new album." and "Future tours are likely to involve trips to New York, Paris and Mumbai." (This is from a reference currently used in the article.) The unsourced paragraph above seems to be something else -- a statement of plans following the 50 show residency. This is entirely possible, but I still haven't found such references. -- Thinking of England (talk) 11:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Areas for improvement: The Financial angle
I am removing the "and all 50 shows would have earned Jackson over £200 million" from the second paragraph. This was added by an IP user with two edits and was likely an extrapolation from the "£50 million". I've searched for but cannot find any reference for it, and while R. Phillips' £50 million statement is well sourced, the likelihood of achieving this from ticket sales alone is discussed above, so extrapolation is both original research and unreasonable. -- Thinking of England (talk) 23:37, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I feel that this source offers valuable data about the residency. http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/aeg-facing-85-million-refund-for-michael-1003988303.story It mentions the number of tickets sold and the approximate ticket gross ("[...] the promoter and its ticketing partners will have the cost and logistical challenge of refunding more than $85 million on 750,000 ticket sales."). Also this source: http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/aeg-will-offer-michael-jackson-ticket-refunds-1003988530.story It mentions "AEG Live had scheduled a punishing series of 50 concerts at London's O2 Arena beginning on July 13, with an estimated 750,000 tickets sold at a price of 50-70 pounds ($80-$110) per ticket," and that "the company is reported to have invested $20-30 million on the production already, not including any advance to Jackson." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.157.174.21 (talk) 08:46, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Fans from over 200 countries
Not sure why the guy wants to delete this sourced information. His argument is that there are not over 200 countries in the world. In fact there are 203 sovereign states. Also can we guarantee that fans from EVERY country registered for the pre-sale draw. The former was sourced - the lasser isn't. I'd change it back, but apparently I can't because the page is locked. Redaction Rob (talk) 11:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with you so I restored it. TopDec (talk) 11:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. When can I start editing locked pages. Do I need to be an admin or something? Redaction Rob (talk) 11:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you need to have been registered for four or five days and have at least ten edits. TopDec (talk) 11:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, wikipedid has a List of sovereign states "containing 203 entries" with 193 "Internationally recognized" and 10 "Other states ... that claim sovereignty and have control over (part of) their claimed territories, but due to disputes over their legitimacy, do not have normal diplomatic relations with the majority of sovereign states". This list excludes micronations such as Sealand and Seborga." --  Thinking of England (talk) 00:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

UK CASTING DIRECTOR
THe UK Casting Director  Mark Summers

UK CASTING DIRECTOR
THe UK Casting Director  Mark Summers  Casting www.marksummers.com/casting  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark summers casting (talk • contribs) 12:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

£10,000
I certainly don't envy the guy who paid £10,000 for a ticket to a concert that won't even take place... 194.100.223.164 (talk) 07:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Set List
I have inserted a table with the proposed setlist based on an article from nme.com. I feel this source is more reliable than the previously posted source saying that Wanna Be Startin Something was the opening song. All the other articles I have checked confirm that Billie Jean was the favourite for the opening song and traditionally it is the opening song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by StephenBHedges (talk • contribs) 13:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That set list was started by the Daily Mirror months ago, it's not reliable. — Please comment  R  2  13:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But arguably it's more reliable than the reference you've posted ? StephenBHedges (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't posted any source, I didn't add that part about "Wanna be....", that should probably go too. — Please comment  R  2  14:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was under the impression that it was you who posted that, I will remove the setlist secton until more vertifiable information becomes avaliableStephenBHedges (talk) 15:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)