Talk:Thomas Cholmondeley (farmer)

Murders in Kenya
Should we construe WP:V/WP:Burden to require a specific citation which explicitly mentions Peter Poole in a news article about the current legal problems Thomas Cholmondeley encountered in 2005-2009?

If it is sufficient to note that in both incidents, there was a notable controversy having to do with perceived different standards of justice for white and non-white Kenyans, then the inclusion of Poole in a "See also" section would seem justified.

I hadn't wondered about this question before an anonymous user removed the link; and after thinking about it, I reverted. To me, the link seems like a legitimate enhancement.
 * 1 diff 16:31, 30 August 2009 196.201.211.82 (10,660 bytes) (What connection did the peter poole case have with this one....)
 * 2 diff 17:16, 30 August 2009 Tenmei (10,724 bytes) (Undid revision 310908396 by 196.201.211.97 ... added date of death, controversey)
 * 3 diff 18:01, 30 August 2009 JRawle m (10,723 bytes) (→Shootings: correct spelling of Cholmondeley)
 * 4 diff 15:07, 1 September 2009  196.201.211.82 (talk) (10,660 bytes) (Undid revision 310915551 by Tenmei ... referring to earlier comment, what is the exact link to a case 49 years previously?)

This article's edit history reveals that I was not the one who first added this link, but I did construe it as relevant and helpful.
 * diff 18:33, 8 May 2009 Julius Sahara (8,675 bytes) (→See also: +peter poole)

In my view, the rationale for this link need not be more precisely explained beyond recognizing that this incident involves a white man who kills a black man and that an official investigation ensued.

In my own mind, I did also draw mental links with the Happy Valley set, the murder Josslyn Hay, 22nd Earl of Erroll and the trial of Jock Delves Broughton. Understandably, I hesitated to add anything because I wondered if this linkage was potentially prejudicial. I wondered if the process of drawing these kinds of connections was in essence nothing more than innuendo? There is no link in terms of legal argument, but public discourse is not so limited by legal niceties.

I left such questions unresolved, but The persistence of an anonymous critic has caused me to express my thinking more fully.

It seems relevant to note that the anonymous critic is located in Nairobi; and I am not. --Tenmei (talk) 17:15, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I created the page on Peter Poole and on Cholmondeley too, so there is a relation between them... Seriously, it is true there is no specific connection between the two cases, save both times a white man has been convicted for killing a black man in Kenya. Such cases are probably very rare, thus the time difference of nearly 50 years is negligible. Otherwise quite much forgotten, Peter Poole was noted on Kenyan media again when Cholmondeley was convicted. Cholmondeley could also had been sentenced to death, had the killing been judged as a murder. Death sentences are still common in Kenya, event though no executions have taken place since 1987. Therefore it would had been very unlikely to have Cholmondeley hanged. It is not uncommon in Wikipedia to interlink similar, if unrelated cases. To me the link is fully legitimate, and I never though there would be anything "bad" to add it here. And finally, if anyone believes I've got something against white Kenyans, see how passionately I've edited the page on Jason Dunford. Other "good" white Kenyans whose pages I've been editing include some members of the Leakey family. Julius Sahara (talk) 18:13, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as I'm concerned, this discussion thread is more than sufficient. I plan to construer any further deletion-edits as WP:Vandalism unless there is a comment or explanation posted in the context of this well-developed thread. --Tenmei (talk) 18:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Edited or not, the remaining ignorance of this article is remarkable. I was present during the trial, and the author manages to miss *completely* the one and central issue of law and fact alike: whether the shooting of the poacher was intentional, or was it was the accidental deflection of a stray bullet off the rock-covered ground, which had been fired at one of the poaching dogs (as the adduced evidence suggested - this was the main reason why the black lay assessors acquitted Cholmondeley). Osas, 27th April 2010

Pruning the section on 'Last White Man Standing'
I propose that the newly added section on the BBC documentary 'Last White Man Standing' be considerably pruned. As it exists now, it is just a recap of the trial as depicted in the documentary. While it may be an accurate description if the documentary, it is not germane - at this length and detail - to the subject. Thaths (talk) 04:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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