Talk:Thomas Cleary

Genius?
(Anonymous wrote: "How come he knows so many languages to such depth?")

I believe he would qualify in that range. Not only does he know classical languages themselves, but he appears to be exquisitely trained in the extremely nuanced materials themselves. He may be in the top five Tao/Buddhist/Confucian translators in the world. TaoPhoenix (talk) 05:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment for Discussion
(Anonymous wrote:I think that Dr. Cleary's association with Shambhala_Publications has damaged his reputation among scholars and watered down the otherwise applaudable accomplishments he has made in the field of Asian studies. Shambhala tends to sensationalize Asian religion/culture in its publications by popularizing  trends without making known the true history and identity from which it comes.  I think it is a disservice to those who read thinking they are gaining great insight.)


 * From a Layman view, I do not agree. I shall open with not understanding how a publication can "not make known the true history it comes from" independent of the specific author's manuscript text. If you mean something like the design for "Book of Serenity" lists Cleary's name as lead translator alone on the cover, I would call that an Expedient Means in the retail world. Inside the cover it can be found that Hsing-hsiu compiled the cases in the 1100's, but that name on the cover would reduce sales by confusing the average store patron. Cleary's texts themselves are among the best I have seen. TaoPhoenix (talk) 05:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, please. Cleary's been a persona non grata from day one. He could publish on Oxford or Doubleday and the reaction would be the same. Academics is politics and it's obvious at some point he ran afoul of the reigning despots in the field. I can't blame the man for not wanting to deal with it. He translates what - nearly a book a month? The man's output is prodigious. He's basically the second coming of Max Muller. Asian Studies is completely worthless as an academic field after Said. Now anything translated is subject to years of peer review, eventually charged with being "Orientalist" and summarily discarded. He's lucky if the Blue Cliff Record translation were published by now if he went the standard academic route.


 * The major fault of the guy - the man has extremely shoddy footnotes and sometimes his bibiliography is lacking. That would be a very legitimate critique. Sometimes, I find it annoying. I doubt that has anything to do with his publishing house. I think his scholarship is just a bit sloppy e.g. he keeps bad notes. My money is that the reason we don't have a bio (anywhere - I've looked) is because he probably got in trouble for this back at the university. Nowadays no one cares since scholarship is dead, but back then if you didn't dot the 'is and the 'ts someone would be yelling plagiarism from the rafters.


 * If it wasn't for publishers like Shambhala and Inner Traditions, a lot of really great books wouldn't get published. Do they publish a lot of mediocre stuff? Sure. So does Edwin Mellen - where 99.9% of academics get their vanity projects published. I think it's much better that he publishes with a company where his writings are actually available to real people for under $30 rather than Edwin Mellen so it's only at university libraries and costs >$200. These are some really good books. Also, not everything "New Age" is worthless, Shambhala publishes some really good yoga books, too, not to mention Eknath Easwaran - who is extremely solid. Granted they publish Wilber and a lot of awful Jung books, but no one's perfect. Guinness4life (talk) 03:41, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Association with Richard Baker Roshi and SF Zen Center Removed

 * "Early in his career, he was sponsored by the abbot Zentatsu Richard Baker of the San Francisco Zen Center while conducting his translation work."

this was removed from the article without any discussion and should be reinstated.

Reliable sources
Thomas Cleary is certainly notable, but there doesn't appear (at first glance) to be much in the way of biographical information about him in reliable independent sources. If you find any, please provide leads here or in the article. Many thanks,  Esowteric |  Talk  10:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Neutral POV
"...Cleary's recent translation of the Qur'an has been praised by Muslims who know English and Arabic."

The "praise" reference should be removed. Amadeus webern (talk) 21:11, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Lack of Biographical Information
It is worth a topic heading in itself just how little biographical information there is on Mr Cleary, given how significant an author he is and how long a career he has had, it is quite notable that he has kept such a low profile, it is at least worth a mention to explain why there is so little information in the article to anyone seeking out the article and expecting some biographical details and finding none. Having heard him lecture in person, I speculate that the reason is that he is more devoted to the actual Tao itself than to academic or literary or even human concerns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.133.38 (talk) 04:38, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Qu'ran translation
I deleted the sentence about the wonders of his Qu'ran translation. The cite needed tag was there since 2010. If no one has been able to find a citation in six years, for the time being we'll have to assume it is unsubstantiated. If anyone finds a reliable source, then of course the sentence can be put back.Retinalsummer (talk) 16:48, 26 October 2016 (UTC)