Talk:Thomas Jefferson (Bitter)

I have changed the date
of this cast of the statue to 1916 and added a source. The 1915 date we used was from the Smithsonian SIRIS data base and I am pretty sure that they will change that to 1916 in the next week or two. Carptrash (talk) 17:13, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I reverted your first edit since 1916 was not supported by any inline citations. I also added additional reference information to the Oregonian source you added. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:39, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Related discussion on my user talk page. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 01:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Chronology
The way this article is organized makes the chronology of Bitter's statue very unclear. The "Jefferson Memorial, Missouri" section says that Bitter had already created a Jefferson statue for the Cuyahoga County Courthouse in Cleveland before he created one for the Missouri memorial. However, information about the Cleveland statue isn't given until the end of the article, and the date the Missouri statue was completed is never given. The article only states that the executive committee of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition decided to build the Jefferson Memorial in 1909; when I first read through the article, I assumed that the statue for the memorial was also completed in 1909, and was very confused to see that the Cleveland statue wasn't completed until 1911. It was only after looking at the article on the Missouri History Museum (which is what the Jefferson Memorial eventually came to be called) that I realized the Missouri statue was probably not finished until 1913.

To clarify the chronology, there are two things I suggest. First, the "Cuyahoga County Courthouse" section should probably be placed at the top of the article, with an introductory sentence along the lines of "Bitter first created a statue of Thomas Jefferson in 1911 for the Cuyahoga County Courthouse in Cleveland, Ohio." Second, the "Jefferson Memorial, Missouri" section should explicitly state when Bitter completed the Missouri statue, instead of just saying it was commissioned in 1909. As I don't have access to the books cited in the article, I'm hesitant to make these changes myself for fear of introducing some accurate information. Would any editors with access to the cited books be willing to take a shot at this? Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 22:19, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * OK, I went ahead and implemented these changes, citing a Smithsonian source for the completion date of the Missouri statue. The article still needs some cleanup to make it more cohesive, but I'd like to take a look at the book sources before doing anything further. Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 05:43, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:31, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Structure
I've added some section headings for organizational purposes, separate the original from replicas. Do you think this works? Feel free to adjust as needed. I"d love to see this article expanded further, and plan to add a map displaying installation locations. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 02:17, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Pinging you as past article/talk page contributors as well. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 03:13, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Another Believer: I LOVE WHAT YOU'VE DONE! The map is especially fun.
 * SIRIS's different heights for the bronzes is puzzling, since they were presumably cast from the same mold/molds. I suspect that SIRIS is wrong about the height of the original being "approx. 6 ft." More likely 57" (twice the size of the plaster model, and half the size of the marble version). If the head was cast in a separate mold, Bitter could have modeled another head of an aged Jefferson for U. of VA.
 * I didn't look at this Talk page until now. So I see others had the same concerns that I tried to address. Best, == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 12:05, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Both of you, nice work. An informative page, and the site-map is interesting. Something like that map for The Thinker or some other well known statues could further world-view personalize them. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Both of you, nice work. An informative page, and the site-map is interesting. Something like that map for The Thinker or some other well known statues could further world-view personalize them. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Brooklyn statue location
Do we know if the Brooklyn statue is installed insider or outside the school? If the latter, we should add Category:Outdoor sculptures in New York City. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:06, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It's plaster, so it wouldn't be outdoors. My impression is that it's in storage. == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 17:16, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Year categories?
Currently, this article is included in 1911 sculptures, 1913 sculptures, 1915 sculptures, 1916 sculptures, and 1929 sculptures (by my doing). Should we only list the year of the original (1911?) or do we include year categories for replicas if they vary from the original in any way? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:10, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * More is more. Include all the dates. Carptrash (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Hey, welcome back, Stranger. == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 17:18, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Not so strange.Carptrash (talk) 16:14, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Source
--- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:11, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * https://www.opb.org/article/2020/12/28/portland-oregon-statues-protest-black-lives-matter-elk/