Talk:Thomas Scott (Orangeman)

Scott's boss
Scott's boss whom he almost killed was called Snow I believe, but there does not seem to be a page on him yet. Perhaps you can expand on this if you have the sources. If not, I shall return at a later date. ^_^

Scott scared
It is also said that Thomas Scott was just supposed to be scared by the soldiers.

Grammar check
Grammar check: change "his captors" to "his captors'" (add appostrophe for possessive form). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.180.70.130 (talk) 09:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Unclear
Was Scott part of a party that attacked the fort and was arrested? Or was he one of the people in the fort when it was captured? The article doesn't make it clear. And what makes him a criminal as he's called in the first sentence? 68.173.155.35 (talk) 02:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

POV
For goodness sake, the only reference for this article is from the Orange order? This is an important player in the history of the Red River provisional government and his death changed the new confederation's admission of Manitoba into Canada; surely this article deserves a more balanced treatment. 99.240.241.93 (talk) 17:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Scooter
It looks to me that someone vandalized the page and changed his name to Thomas Scooter. I'm changing it to Thomas Scott, bu please provide details here if I am wrong about doing this. JettaMann (talk) 13:56, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Abused his guards, threatened to murder riel, etc.
why does this article have so little —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.83.207 (talk) 20:39, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Modern Perception and Controversy
I found that this Wikipedia article clearly lacks a substantial amount of info, considering the historical role Thomas Scott played in Western Canada. Having only "life, death and memorials" i feel that i would be able to expand on how Thomas Scott is perceived within a modern context. In Chester Brown's 2003Louis Riel Scott plays a pivotal role in Riel's story, but he is projected as a crass and hostile prisoner. Scott is the centre of alot of controversy in Canadian history. I feel like i have to tread lightly with this approach because WIKIPEDIA is a shared space etc. However i do believe that there is some foundation to build on for modern perception, alongside various portrayals of Thomas Scott in film, graphic novel, and other literature. Mlocksley (talk) 17:13, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Missing items
The Wikipedia article is lacking information in the history of Thomas Scott. One suggestion for improving the article is focus primarily on Thomas Scott's life after he immigrated to North America. This is crucial to discuss because Europeans who arrived at North America immigrated here for specific reasons either to flee something from their home territory or were sentenced to North America for crime. StanLeehen (talk)

Expand and add
This article could address why the Canadian government sent Scott to the region for survey. He is still a controversial character in Canadian history with regard to if his execution was justified or not. Although we are to remain neutral on Wikipedia, it can still be explored both sides of the debate.Also, a large chunk of the article is a quotation from one of the members of Scott's expedition. This description should be considered bias, and is against the guidelines of using primary source information. Some background information could be added, such as when he immigrated to Canada, why he chose to serve the Macdonald government, or why he was attacking the fort in the first place. WallyJK (talk) 18:15, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Education Program: Trent University - Proposal Outline for Changes
We are a group of Trent University students enrolled in the course: History of Western Canada. As a group, we intend to make some changes to the article “Thomas Scott (Orangeman),” in order to provide more detailed content on Thomas Scott. These changes will include reducing the size of the quotation under the sub heading “Life.” We will add an additional sectional that will provide information on Thomas Scott’s role in the Red River Resistance. Information on what it meant to be an Orangeman, with a link provided to the existing Wikipedia page “Orangeman,” would be added as well in order to provide content on Scott’s role as an Orangeman and what influence this had during the Red River Resistance. Lastly, we will include more information in the “Memorials” section and expand it to include Thomas Scott’s legacies as well. These are our goals as a group for this Wikipedia article. As a result of these changes, the article will be able to provide more information to readers on Thomas Scott, his role in the Red River Resistance and as an Orangeman, and his significance within Canada history. A detailed outline of these changes is provided below:

Detailed Outline:

In looking at the Wikipedia page for “Thomas Scott (Orangeman),” there is sufficient information in describing who Thomas Scott was. However, the page has the potential to expand on the role that Thomas Scott played in Canadian history. Therefore changes would allow for the page to become more abundant in information for users. It would also make the page easier to navigate. These would be the goals for improving the article “Thomas Scott (Orangeman).” When attempting to improve upon the already existing article, the first change would be to reduce the size of a quotation in the “life” section. The existing quotation takes much of the area in that particular section. As a result of this, it incorporates Thomas Scott’s life, as well as his role in the Red River Resistance. In changing the format of this, two steps would need to take place. The first would be to break down the quotation and keep the information that it provides readers with concerning his life in that section. This would be something that would also be backed up with additional information from other scholarly sources. The second step would be to create another section in the article. This would be done in order to include the information that the rather large quote provides in the role that Thomas Scott played in the Red River Resistance. Again, this would be something that would be backed up and added to with additional scholarly sources. In doing this it would make it easier to break up the information between Scott’s life and his specific role in the Resistance. Following this would be to also add a section which would provide information and a link to what the Orangeman were and what roles Thomas Scott would have played within this. The importance of including this in the Wikipedia page would be that while there already exists an extensive page on information about the Orangeman; it would be interesting to have information specifically concerning what Scott’s role in the organization was, as well as what role they would have had in this instance of the Red River Resistance. The final part of expanding the already existing information of the article would be to include additional information concerning the memorials of Thomas Scott. In doing so, expanding that particular section to include the legacy that Thomas Scott left would also be done. The reasoning for this would be because the information that is provided in this section is sparse. Therefore, by combining the two topics, it would allow for a culmination in the article as to the significance that Thomas Scott played in being a historical figure in Canada.

Jamie Lotton (talk) 20:18, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Scott and the Wolseley Expedition
Regarding the sentence "Scott was garrisoned to the Wolseley Expedition to quell the Red River Rebellion". The Wolseley Expedition arrived after Scott's execution so he could not be a member of or garrisoned to the expedition. -- Kayoty (talk) 20:56, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Edit Suggestions
I think this article is off to a really good start! I like the subheadings such as Significance & Death, and Memorials that you have added in to improve the article. I think to improve your work, you should further divide the "Life" section into "Early Life" and "Political Life" to allow for readers to see his personal information (birth, religion, immigration), separately from his political connections to the Canadian Party/Red River Rebellion. I would also adjust the "Trial and Execution" section to be one of "Imprisonment and Trial", and another specifically about his execution. In the Imprisonment and Trial you could use much of the information you have already inputted such as his behaviour while in jail, and his sentencing to a firing squad. The second section, specifically about his execution would focus on the details of his death, which I believe is one of the most significant aspects to the history of Scott. I think that the existing "Trial and Execution" section is quite broad, and would become more concise if the above changes were considered. Another subsection you could look at adding in would be "Imagery of Thomas Scott", as there has been significant controversy around his portrayal in comic books, art, etc. which further complicates the details about his execution (you begin to mention this in the existing 'Trial & Execution' area). For this, you could look to Chester Brown's graphic novel, but also to various paintings of his execution that have been done since, which would also add more images to the page. Finally, as it is a wikipedia page about a person, it becomes a sort of biography. As most people turn to Wikipedia for the 'quick facts' about a person, I would include a chart under the image of Scott found on the page which briefly mentions quick facts such as his date of birth, place of birth, date of death, etc. Overall, I think this is really well done, and with a few changes could be a very excellent resource for work regarding Thomas Scott. I look forward to seeing where you go with this :) --Erikaleu (talk) 22:57, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Suggestive Points
The article is well on its way to being a very informative source! Much of the information listed is relevant and allows the reader to gain a pretty good understanding of Scott's life and execution. Personally, I think the organization of the article could be tweaked a little and more details could be added. When looking at other wiki articles the first paragraphs seem to almost be a summery of the entire article-- hitting on key points that will be discussed throughout. It may be beneficial to lengthen the first paragraph to include the trial and his death. The subheadings that are in place now are quite useful, but I would recommend breaking it down even further to: 'Role...', 'Imprisonment', 'Trial', and 'Execution'. These headings would create segues to the events that lead to Scotts eventual demise and allow for more detail to be added (i.e. escaping the fort and getting re-captured)-- creating a more fluid article. This change would truly help the 'Trial and Execution' section, the meat of the article, become more fluid and less speculative. It is important to point out that the circumstances around his execution are quite unknown, but it may be more effective to explain the most accepted timeline. On the same note, I really liked that their was different accounts from eye witnesses, but I think maybe it would do the article justice to dedicate a paragraph or two to these discrepancies. I like your groups original plan of combining the 'Significance...' and 'Memorial' section. It would create a 'Legacy' section where you could then expand on the stir that Scott's death had on the contemporary, as well as in the modern day. A suggested source: From the Stacks at Bata Library: Bumstead's Trials and Tribulations: the Red River Settlement and the Emergence of Manitoba. Overall, the foundation of the article is coming a long great and with a few good sources and tweaking it will be a respectable source of information :)Jj.Metherell (talk) 16:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Peer Review and Potential Edits
This is a good article for reference, it is informative - the article has good use of dividing the subsections into the trial then into the significance of the trial and his death. It would benefit the article if there was elaboration upon the trial happenings- there seems to be a lot of emphasis in the Trial and Execution subsection on witness accounts- maybe incorporate more scholarly articles that research the trial.

Peer Review and Suggestive Changes
This article seems to be off to a good start. I have a few suggestions that I think will be useful and if you have any further questions or concerns about what I post feel free to contact me on my talk page. The first thing, while almost cosmetic but I think is very important, is the picture box, it has no information which is not like the rest of Wikipedia. I suggest that you update the box and include key information like name, birth-death, religion, etc. I have created a template that you can use, just copy, paste, and fill it out, it should work. EDIT : Apparently i can't put it in the talk page ... so if ya want it just ask me on my talk page and i can place it on one of your sandboxes.

As for the article it seems to be coming along although here are my suggestions as to what to change. The structure could be tweaked a little for it seems everything is packed in to a few headings that aren’t very precise to the information found inside. The first paragraph should be of a more complete summary of what is detailed in the article. It’s the first paragraph people see when they open the page up and if it doesn’t have the information they are looking for they are likely to leave. As for the rest of the article I think a breakdown of ‘Early Life’ since you don’t discuss anything past the point of red river it is not a complete description of his life, ‘Red River Resistance’ where you briefly outline what the event was and explain his role in it since not all readers will know what that was, ‘imprisonment and trail’ would be a better title I think to describe what occurred while he was captured and the tensions that were going on within the cell and perhaps discuss the fact that others were not being tried but not facing the ramifications of the sentencing, and the followed by ‘Execution’ since you have a lot of information on it, and ‘Significance of his death’ is a great title to explain why it was so important, also ‘Memorials’ is good if you discuss the other sites ‘Memorial’ if you only have the one.

Content wise I know it is difficult to find a lot about his life but I suggest looking at the Manitoba Historical Society webpage http://www.mhs.mb.ca/searchresults.shtml?cx=010615179535509863828%3A7zow4hyr79w&cof=FORID%3A11&q=Thomas+Scott&sa=Search for some more information. I looked at it briefly when I was planning to do Scott and it has some sources that may provide you with additional information and contains links to some good primary and secondary sources. I would like to see an expansion on the explanation of the history and his role in the Red River Resistance and what he did, seems to be lacking content. When it comes to content about the trial and execution I think you all have done a good job depicting the fact that he was a nuisance and caused a lot of frustration. He was also sick while in prison, perhaps that’s relevant to why he was a nuisance. You also do a good job at explaining that there are varying reports as to how he died but some reworking and clarity at the beginning of the paragraph that explains that would be beneficial. One last thing, the only source on this page is an encyclopedia, through the link above you can find other sources to add.

Hope this was helpful. If its unclear im sorry and if it sounds rude it wasn't my intent. Good Luck! APRenaud (talk) 17:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Suggestions
Off to a good start, but I think this article would be improved by breaking down the Trial & execution section, as it dominates the page. Perhaps separate it into the known facts and then controversy? In the 'Life' section, there is an abrupt transition between him moving to Ontario and being in Red River that I could see being confusing for those who are not familiar with the geography. I also wonder about the lack of neutrality in calling him a 'zealous' Orangeman and an 'individualist'. The placement of the picture of his execution also feels very disruptive on the page (as far as where it throws off the title of 'Memorials'), though this is cosmetic. Lindzcrymble (talk) 19:38, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Review of classmate's article
This article is very interesting, but not so long, so perhaps dedication to every part of the article would be necessary. I also found a lot of Grammatical mistakes in this particular article, so minor edits would make this more readable. As for the content, I really like the trial and execution part; it is the most informative, and provides much detail about the process Thomas Scott went through. However, I feel like a lot more could be written on his role in the Red River Resistance. He played an important part in this, so perhaps there could be a significant amount of detail in this section. The Article is good, but it could definitely be more informative. Emower193 (talk) 19:52, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Reference condensing
I've condensed a few of the references using named references, so citations to specific works can be reused in a way that is a bit easier to edit and read. If you want to re-use citations but you need to make reference to particular page numbers it can be tricky, however. I'm happy to help with that if need be. /cc Thanks. Adam (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:50, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Thomas Scott Memorial Day
Regarding the line: "To this day, Thomas Scott Memorial Day is celebrated on March 4th in Canada." There is no memorial day celebrated in Canada for Thomas Scott.-- Kayoty (talk) 23:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Bias
I find this article to be extremely biased. The facts presented seem to be hand-picked to create the impression that the "execution" of Scott was justified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WmDKing (talk • contribs) 21:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)