Talk:Thornlie line/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Commander Keane (talk · contribs) 08:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I am looking forward to reviewing this article. It is my first GA review. I have lived in Perth previously but I am unfamiliar with the subject. I read and edit on both mobile and desktop so my comments may be influenced by that. I consider suggestions I make to be open to discussion.--Commander Keane (talk) 08:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Commander Keane. Thanks for reviewing this article. I've responded to all your comments below. Steelkamp (talk) 14:22, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Lead + infobox

 * I would consider adding an opening date to the first paragraph to give the reader some context on how old the line is. I know it is in the second paragraph but you need to scroll past the infobox on mobile to get to the second paragraph.
 * Done.
 * Similarly I would consider adding a very brief reason as to why the line is suspended in the first paragraph.
 * Done, although I don't want to say too much in that first paragraph to avoid redundancy with the third lead paragraph.
 * The project is being built - perhaps "is currently being built".
 * Done.
 * construction of two new stations along the way - perhaps drop the "along the way".
 * Done.
 * I am not sure what the guidelines are for putting the currencies as "A$716 million" rather than just "$716 million", I will put a note here so I remember to check.
 * Hmm. According to MOS:$, the first mention should always be "A$" and then just "$" after that. I didn't realise that, so I've implemented that now.
 * The current infobox picture looks like the station is under construction. I would consider adding a date to the caption to let the reader know it is a few years old, or perhaps use a different photo.
 * Done. I still think its the best/most representative photo we currently have on Commons, as it shows the station and the line narrowing to a single track.
 * The infobox says "Closed" 20 November 2023 implying that the line won't reopen, maybe that can be adjusted.
 * I've added the "Reopened" parameter, although annoyingly, that is in past tense, so I've also added "(planned)" next to the 2025. Too bad there's no "reopening" parameter for future tense cases such as this.

History

 * Not really a history thing, but overall I think some kind of map or something like Channel Tunnel RDT would be helpful for reader comprehension. I know it is a big ask.
 * I don't really know how to make those, so I will have to ask somebody. In the mean time, I hope this doesn't hold up promoting this article to GA, seeing as this is not strictly within the GA criteria.
 * I would consider adding the map at Armadale_line to this article, it even has the extension in grey. I do consider the GA criterion #6 to be important. If there is a map then there is not really a need for the Channel Tunnel RDT style thing. If the map included stations like Zurich S6 at Rapid_transit_OSM_map that would be even better.--Commander Keane (talk) 00:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I've added a map. I've decided to have the other lines in black to avoid them distracting from the Thornlie/Armadale lines. I'll look at adding stations later. Steelkamp (talk) 03:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Spur to Thornlie

 * For the image caption The Thornlie line diverging I would consider adding a "(left)" or "(centre)" to indicate which line is the Thornlie and which is the Armadale.
 * I have instead reworded the caption to indicate the Thornlie line consists of the tracks heading into the tunnel.
 * It was decided to build the Thornlie line though as a... perhaps drop the "though" or add a comma somewhere.
 * I've dropped the "though".
 * I would consider wikilinking "grade separated" as readers may not be familiar with the term. Also maybe link "noise walls" to Noise barrier
 * Done.
 * Kewdale White Oil Line - I was not sure what "White Oil Line" is and the source only mentions light crude.
 * I've added a small explanation to the article. The Kewdale White Oil Line is a proper name for a pipeline carrying fuel from Kwinana to Perth Airport.

Thornlie–Cockburn Link extension

 * ...if it won the 2013 state election seems a little confusing, is it possible to add somehow that they lost the election, otherwise it implies they won and the plan went ahead.
 * Done.
 * having a station at Ranford Road and Nicholson Road - should that be "having stations at..."?
 * Done.
 * And just after that, the use of a semicolon makes a very long sentence, is it possible to break that up into two sentences (I am not a grammar expert though).
 * Done.
 * Instead of piping "Park and ride" to "large car park" I would consider leaving it as "park and ride" for better reader understanding of the purpose of the car park.
 * Done.
 * Thornlie station was to have its platforms extended to 150 metres - maybe "platform's length extended"
 * Done.
 * an increase on the $474 million originally promised - maybe say who made the promise here so the reader doesn't have to scroll up to find out.
 * Done.
 * This one was designed - maybe "The new bridge" would sound more professional.
 * Done.
 * Between 1997 and 1998, a second... comes out of the blue to me as we are discussing 2021 but then jump back. I would consider rearranging the paragraph as the multiple bridge situation was confusing me. Perhaps start the sentence with "The second bridge at Ranford Road across the railway was built between 1997 and 1998"
 * I've done a rewrite of this section so that the three bridges are named right at the start of the section.
 * I know the year has just begun but is there any update on ...and it is planned to open in 2023. Did it open?
 * I've added an update that the bridge is still under construction as of February 2024. For some reason, this bridge is taking a ridiculously long time to build.
 * A $243.8 million cost increase - maybe "A further $243.8 million..."
 * Done.

Future

 * I would consider adding a source to this sentence, like "According to the Perth and Peel@3.5million plan..."
 * Done.
 * Also, a note to myself about if GAN can be passed if they are expected to be updated heavily in the near future as this project is underway
 * I believe the "stableness" part of the GA criteria refers to edit wars or content disputes, not updates as construction progresses. Although not updating would be grounds for GA demotion in the future. I'll keep on making updates to this article though so that won't have to happen.

Description

 * Thornlie line trains stopped at... - maybe "Until temporary closure Thornlie line trains stopped at..."
 * Done.
 * I would consider linking "Armadale line" in the Stations subsection as there is a lack of blue links in that area and a reader may be interested in the Armadale line at that point in the article.
 * Done.

Service

 * Again, a date in the image caption would be something to consider (could just be my personal preference though).
 * Done.
 * I would consider wikilinking "PTA" in the first sentence or expanding it.
 * I've instead done away with the PTA initialism seeing as its only used once, so it barely saved any space.
 * when they ran every 30 minutes instead - "instead" may be redundant.
 * Removed "instead".
 * which typically skips most... - I think it should be "skip"
 * Done.
 * Armadale_line - I have seen a fancy symbol used instead of "#" in some places in Wikipedia, need to look into that.
 * I've replaced that whole sentence with a hatnote above that section. I don't think Wikipedia articles are meant to refer to themselves the way it did there, and hatnotes are preferred instead.

Comments II
This section is devoted to checking the references. I worked from the bottom of the article to the top.

Rolling stock

 * The A-series trains were built between 1991 and 1999 and consist of two cars which are usually joined to form four-car trains. Each car has two doors on each side. The B-series trains were built between 2004 and 2019, consist of three cars each and have two doors on the side of each car - I didn't see this info in the cited sources. Maybe it is there and I missed it. If it is not there it is hardly controversial information, I would just consider moving the "[35][45]: 24" to before the passage I quoted rather than after it.
 * I've moved those sources up and added new sources for the train descriptions.

Service

 * This made the Thornlie line Transperth's least frequent line.[116] - not sure what the policy is regarding page numbers but the source is 20 pages long so a page number for this fact would be useful.
 * There is a page number there. Page 10.
 * In the ref itself, [109] puts the original pdf first then the archive, but [112] does the opposite. I would consider some standardisation, not sure if templates are to blame. Maybe this is intentional though.
 * The reason for this is the "url-status" parameter within the citation template. When the original URL is live, the original URL is placed first. When the original URL is dead, the archive URL is placed first.

Stations

 * The info on the platform lengths. I couldn't find it at [45]: 12 but there was something on page 40 of that source.
 * I've added page 40 to that citation as well, and reworded that paragraph slightly to avoid saying anything the source does not.

Description

 * I have not yet opened the source [108] but it says "redacted", does that mean the As of 2021... still holds?
 * The redacted just means minor parts of the original source were redacted (by being blacked out) for commercial in confidence reasons before being published on the Tenders WA website. The information being sourced was not redacted though so the red doesn't affect us.

Construction

 * For source [97] the web.archive version doesn't load for me. Just wondering if that can be fixed, if not I understand. Same with [55]
 * For me, it loads and then tries to reload but fails. Pressing the cross button to stop loading works for me.
 * 1 kilometre (1 mi) - I would consider adding a decimal place to the conversion. 0.6 mi or whatever.
 * Done.

Scope
I am up to here but need to take a break until tomorrow probably.--Commander Keane (talk) 08:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Thornlie–Cockburn Link extension

 * An extension of the Thornlie line to link up with the Mandurah line had been proposed several times in the 2010s - source?
 * I wrote that sentence as an introduction to the rest of the paragraph. I didn't think that sentence needed a specific source since the rest of the paragraph is sourced.
 * Agreed.--Commander Keane (talk) 09:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Comments III
Given the article has had some minor changes I will run through it now top to bottom. We are on the final stretch!--Commander Keane (talk) 09:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I would like your opinion if the image captions are mainly fragments or some are complete sentences needing full stops, per MOS. Probably mainly fragments though.
 * I think they are all fragments, although I'm hardly an expert on this.

Spur to Thornlie

 * Following the election of the Labor Party in the 2001 state election - "election" is repeated, I would consider changing it to win or something
 * I've reworded it.

Thornlie–Cockburn Link extension

 * The Liberal Party won the election though, so that... - I would consider dropping the "though"
 * Ok, done.

Scope

 * Consider wikilinking through trains to Through service.
 * I don't think this is a useful link as the Thornlie Cockburn Link is just an extension of the existing line and not an entirely new line as described at Through service.

Stations

 * The Thornlie line branch has one station; until the temporary closure, Thornlie line trains stopped at 11 stations in total. - I find this sentence a bit awkward with the semicolon. I would consider replacing the semicolon with a full stop or using a different structure.
 * Replaced the semicolon with a full stop.

Final evaluation
Based on the The six good article criteria:
 * 1) Well-written: Yes
 * 2) Verifiable with no original research: Yes
 * 3) Broad in its coverage: Yes, outstandingly broad given the variety of references
 * 4) Neutral: Yes
 * 5) Stable: Yes, no edit war or dispute
 * 6) Illustrated: Yes, particularly with the map addition
 * Thank you Steelkamp for an incredibly detailed and interesting Good article!--Commander Keane (talk) 05:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)


 * And thank you Commander Keane for your detailed review of this article! Steelkamp (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2024 (UTC)