Talk:Thoth Tarot

Untitled
Took out "he moved the trump card Strength from number 8 to number 11" because Crowley followed the traditional order; it was Waite who exchanged Strength and Justice, and only the RWS and some of those who follow it have Strenght at 8 and Justice at 11. AlexR 16:52, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC) I have a copy of this deck, and Lust (strength) is card eight and Adjustment (justice) card eleven. This is because when removing the trumps from the deck when they correspond to a planet, you can lay out the remainder in order and they will correspond directly to the zodiac. inevitably, someone will flag this as original research, although I severely doubt anyone else hasn't discovered this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.251.171 (talk) 19:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn has exchanged the cards in the cipher manuscript. Waite accepted the exchange. 79.183.162.183 (talk) 07:34, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Stubs and NPOV?
Umm, why? This is a real Tarot deck that verifiably exists. Whether or not you believe in the reliability of Tarot readings is beside the point - this isn't an article about the truth or falsity of Tarot readings, but about the existence, history and traits of one particular deck. So why the fantasy stub? And for that matter, why the astrology stub? Although both are methods of divination, they are far from identical. Lokicarbis 14:29, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

The big update
I hope the new information is both pertinent and accurate; the one thing I am a little unsure of is the use of the &AElig; character, as it is not present in the deck's instructions or on the card (the &AElig;on) itself. I hope I haven't appeared to take a side in the VIII/XI numbering debate, as I really don't have an opinion on the matter. Ataru 01:28, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Thoth deck usage
Just curious, does anyone else use this deck? The Thoth Tarot is my first tarot deck and was just wondering if anyone has had some experience with it. Most people I have spoken to about tarot decks use the Rider-Waite deck or different stylized decks.--Lzygenius 12:31, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Many people do use it, but the Wikipedia is not really a good place to discuss this. I suggest you have a look at aeclectic and especially its forum . Of course there are also many other websites out there where you can find people who work with the Thoth, but I personally like the forum there best. -- AlexR 16:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Those look like good sources.--Lzygenius 14:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I have 25+ years of experience with Thoth Deck and more than that on the subject of Aleister Crowley. You're perfectly welcome to contact Me on FB if You have questions. You'll find Me on FB under "Daimeon Mac Aleister". My FB is completely public, so We don't have to be friends for You to message Me. Daimeon Mac Aleister (talk) 18:31, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

External Link: How do you pronounce the name of the Thoth deck? The Solution is here.
This links to a page of questionable accuracy and value. I suggest that pronunciation be included into the article header as typical of other wikipedia articles rather than linking to an external page just for a pronunciation guide. (Already there) Also, as no one really is sure how the ancient Egyptians pronounced "ḏḥwty", can we find a better link to the pronunciation of "Thoth" as use as used by Crowley? Or at least the Greeks' "Θωθ" (Thōth or Theut)? (Not really relevant to this case) Or remove this link altogether? Bingo - It doesn&#39;t stick. (talk) 18:58, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm cutting it. If someone wants it back, we can discuss. - It doesn&#39;t stick. (talk) 04:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

This is Joan Cole (author of http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/courtcorres.htm) which you cite in this wikipedia article. You show the Typical to Thoth correspondence as RW King=Thoth Knight, which is backwards. It is NOT what the page you cite as evidence for your point says. The correspondence my page argues for is RW King=Thoth Prince. I'll let the page make the argument as to why. It may be that Thelema in general does not agree with my argument, which is fine, but I'm just pointing out that my article does not support your contention. Over and Out... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.147.2.118 (talk) 14:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Your site is not liked to argue any particular point or argument, but is only given as an External Link, suggested further reading if you will. However, upon further review, it doesn't really seem pertinent here in this article. As such I'll be cutting it. If anyone cares to reinclude it, perhaps it can be inserted in such a way as to be relevant. - It doesn&#39;t stick. (talk) 21:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I suggest regarding Joan Cole's comment as valid due to the rampant discussion and confusion over the court cards (while the above site is understandably original research, keep reading). See this Llewellyn sourced article: http://www.llewellyn.com/journal/article/387 . I think it's as close to academic as we can get on the subject. It too presents the King as the Son, not the Father, because of Mathers' symbolism in developing tarot. This means Thoth Prince = RWS King. -- Earth Sprite &infin; 20:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I say [θɔθ] and have never heard [toʊt]. Not ever. -- Evertype·✆ 01:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Image(s) of card(s) to page?
Does someone have a deck and could add a picture or two to the page? If not, I am willing to buy a set. I'm not sure about copyright restrictions on the cards, but perhaps notes included with a deck would mention, or we can ask at Media copyright questions. - Paul2520 (talk) 18:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I've ordered a set. Picture(s) to come once it arrives. - Paul2520 (talk) 17:13, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I added an image of the box cover to the article. Now that I have a set, I'm tempted to add a picture(s) of the cards, but my investigation suggests that this would violate copyright. But at least I have a set now! - Paul2520 (talk) 18:13, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

There exists a digital rendition of Thoth Deck that is in the public domain and is not subject to copywrite therefore You may use whichever images You Will to. If You would like to have a copy just message Me on FB and I will issue You a link to My Google Drive so that You can download a copy. You'll find My FB under "Daimeon Mac Aleister". My FB is completely public so We don't have to be friends for You to be able to message Me. Daimeon Mac Aleister (talk) 19:05, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Reliable sources?
Anyone aware of reliable sources that cover tarot? I was considering adding citations to this article but I figure the vast majority of sites that cover tarot would not be verifiable in terms of wiki standards. Madbrad200 (talk)

The reference for The Book of Thoth that indicates p308 is bogus. The book associated with that ISBN only goes to page 287. This book is a great resource for understanding the Thoth tarot and I imagine it's the only definitive work considering Crowley wrote it. Lon Milo DuQuette wrote Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, Weiser Books, 2003 but I can't say anything about it other than Crowley had nothing to do with it. Not sure what other books are out there. MK011235813 (talk) 22:06, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Picture of a Cat
The article shows a picture of a cat near what is supposed to be Thoth Tarot cards.

Why can't we show artwork from the late 30's here on Wikipedia? There are hundreds of examples of art from this period without any controversy?

If nobody objects, I'll digitize my deck and put all the cards up here in the article. 108.200.234.93 (talk) 01:16, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

References and Citations
I've added a "Conservation" section, however, the new citations don't jive, stylistically speaking, with the pre-existing "References". Please advise. Also, why has Wikipedia blacklisted www.lashtal.com? Seems like an authoritative website on things relating to O.T.O/Crowley. Blind Donkey (talk) 02:51, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Major Arcana​
A request to lowercase the terms Major Arcana and Minor Arcana has been underway for awhlle and may interest editors here. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:57, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Important Thoth Taro Deck information that needs to be Added
This article is a VERY brief sumerization. For example, It needs more about the history of Its' printing. Such as Its' multiple printing history, James Wassermans' (R.I.P.) contributions to the digitalization improvements that He made, information about the boarder and things like that. Other examples of What needs to be explained are Why Aleister Crowley referred to it using the Egyptian God of Thoth. There needs to be explained What type of style of painting Harris used (i.e., Whatever the name of the trend of the style of painting behind allot of the cards) that constitutes the netting effect behind the images and that that particular style of painting never caught on. I'm a 25+ year veteran of the use of Thoth Deck and I find this article still leaves ALLOT to be desired. Daimeon Mac Aleister (talk) 18:17, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

EDIT NEEDED: Court Cards
The current wiki page has the traditional Knight matched with Crowley's Prince, and the traditional King with Crowley's Prince. It should be the King matched with Crowley's Knight, and the Knight with Crowley's Prince. This is referenced in Crowley's Book of Thoth (I don't have my copy handy at the moment for page numbers), and can additionally be found in the small 'instruction booklet' that usually comes with the tarot deck.

I'm not very tech savvy when it comes to editing web pages and so couldn't figure out how to edit the citation and link it to the extant Book of Thoth reference. I thought here may be a good place to communicate this so it's at least out there if someone wants to make the change while I slowly try to figure out how citations work. Seltsamsmaragd (talk) 01:14, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree on the problem. I updated the page with the citation from The Book of Thoth. Wang's text did line them up correctly, but the explanation in The Book of Thoth is more complete. Fkberthold (talk) 19:14, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Don't change Tzaddi and Heh attributions
Hi, there is a long misunderstanding about the Thoth Tarot and Crowley's tarot attributions. See my reddit posts as they deal with it precisely. Please do your own drawing of the double loop in the zodiac before editing the wiki. Comments are welcome. https://www.reddit.com/r/thelema/comments/lox4dc/tzaddi_is_not_the_star_not_implemented_in_thoth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thelema/comments/lqkdnb/tzaddi_is_not_the_star_duquette_thoth_tarot_fail/ Akisviete (talk) 21:12, 6 October 2023 (UTC)