Talk:Thousand Island dressing

Names
Thousand Islands dressing or Thousand Island dressing? An article cited includes the s.

Uses
I don't know where the bit about Big Boys being dressed with Thousand Island came from, but it's wrong. They have tartar sauce, not Thousand Island.

Pstemari (talk) 02:59, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Only at Frisch's. At other Big Boy's it's "big boy sauce" aka thousand island.00:39, 28 February 2018 (UTC)2601:40C:8300:1D35:3C36:315D:1A31:AD35 (talk) 00:39, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

History
"LaLonde substituted mayonnaise for the yogurt used in Russian dressing" It seems unlikely that yogurt was used in Russian dressing, as in the "first decades of the 20th century", yoghurt was virtually unknown in the US. --Macrakis 23:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sophia LaLonde was my great Aunt. The credit goes to her. Wife of a fisherman. I was told by my Grandma Priscilla Longton,It was a sandwich spread for the fisherman's sandwiches when they came to shore for lunch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EllenWhitney (talk • contribs) 04:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Relationship to Marie Rose sauce, Russian dressing, and "Fry sauce"
In the UK, "Marie Rose sauce" is a term synonymous with Thousand Island dressing, as used, for example, in prawn cocktails. I note that the article for Russian dressing appears to describe something almost identical; now, I have never heard the term "Russian dressing" used in the UK, nor the term "fry sauce" - is there really any difference or are they just synonyms for the same basic dressing of mayonnaise and ketchup with a few herbs and spices added? Would it be worthwhile merging (with redirects) all articles under one heading (preferably Thousand Island dressing) for the basic recipe, and just listing them as alternative terms with slight ingredient variations? DWaterson 19:15, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It may vary by region, but in my experience Thousand Island dressing is sweeter (having sweet relish and/or sugars added) while Fry Sauce has less added (often just dill pickle juice, giving it a different flavor and making it smoother.) This seems to be a larger difference than the largely identical Russian Dressing... ? Utahgamer (talk) 17:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm a Brit, and I haven't ever heard "Marie Rose sauce" used as a synonym for Thousand Island. Marie Rose is a basic mix of tomato ketchup and mayo, in my experience, and is served with prawns or other seafood, especially in cocktails. Thousand Island is different in that it has all the chopped-up bits of pickle, pepper etc added. It is served with burgers, or salads (esp. from 'Make Your Own' salad bars). I've never seen Russian Dressing in the UK. I don't think I've seen Fry Sauce, but I do often see Burger Sauce, which is presumably similar - a cheaper, sweeter, smoother version of Marie Rose - perhaps it's ketchup and Salad Cream or something? Burger Sauce is more orange than the rich pink of Marie Rose sauce.Pitt the elder (talk) 11:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Ad?
Is it just me, or does the final section of this article simply become a giant advertisement for various fast food corporations. This would seem to be inappropriate for an encyclopedia.
 * I agree. Rlitwin (talk) 12:52, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When I read this entry I thought how unprofessional the entry regarding a particular chain's use of the dressing was. Why not put each and every chain that ever used the dressing?  It looks like the author is little more than a shill for the In and Out Burger Corporation (or whatever the name of it is).  I lived in Texas for 20 years and never saw the franchise.  This section clearly needs to be removed....

110.164.237.165 (talk) 08:26, 26 May 2011 (UTC)n0w8st8s

Pizza Hut in Hong Kong
I'm not sure if this warrants special mention for HK's Pizza Huts. In Pizza Hut's outlets in New Zealand (and presumably Australia) Thousand Island dressing (or something similar) is used for swirling on many varieties of pizza as well. --JNZ 22:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Definitely warrants a mention. I'd be curious who came up with this terrible idea and how it caught on. It's half the pizza menu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.153.105.181 (talk) 04:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Cafeteria
Kids in my school always mix ketchup and mayo together and stir it until it's pink, earning it the nickname pink sauce by the kids. Should that go on the page? 68.196.8.115 (talk) 17:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What you seem to be describing is fry sauce. Utahgamer (talk) 17:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So far as I have heard for the past 23 years 1000 island is defined only by the ketchup and mayonaise rest being optional --71.131.30.178 (talk) 06:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Origins
The stories given regarding the origins of Thousand Island sauce are not conflicting at all. Indeed they could all be true. --Gak (talk) 11:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Origins**
 * Strange to read about the origins of the name Thousand Islands sauce as my Gran once told me that the name was choosen through a local compition held in SA in the 1970's - 1980's. My Gran said that her name for said dressing was choosen and she won a toaster accordingly.  Wondering if anyone can assist in confirming this, winner of compitition Caroline Cecile Smith/James.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.26.22.42 (talk) 07:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know what your Gran won, or what it was for, but it certainly wasn't for the name 'Thousand Island Dressing', which had been in common usage to my knowledge for decades before the 1970's. Fairlightseven 11th Jan.2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fairlightseven (talk • contribs) 17:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Fairlightseven, I appreciate your comment herein but that is only according to your knowledge. This however was confirmed by my Gran today and she advised that the compition was held in the 1980's...  Very confusing as this is obviously not made up nor fiction - not saying that the name for this dressing wasn't used prior to date but its strange that a local compition was held for this...  Sure there is some explenation...??  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.28.97.76 (talk) 19:32, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Dear Caroline,
 * Well, all I can tell you is that the first time I travelled to North America in 1962, Toronto to be exact, I was served a hamburger with Thousand Island Dressing. When I asked about it the waitress was fairly vague, but said it had something to do with the thousand islands in the St Lawrence river. I suspect your gran was just asked 'Does anyone know the name of this sauce?' and it so happened that she did, so she got it right and got a prize.
 * Fairlightseven 23/01/10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.180.236 (talk) 21:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Isn't it patently ridiculous for one of the origins to be that it was invented in 1910 when the same article states that it was widely known in 1900? --Samineru (talk) 08:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Just a head's up for whoever is maintaining the incorrect information about the 1900 cookbook from New Orleans. Google Books, while very, very useful, often uses dates which are incorrect.  Anyone can see that the book is NOT from 1900.  It was first published in 1930.  It was reprinted much later by Peerless Press in La. Therefore, there is NO cite for Thousand Island dressing from 1900.  I've contacted Google Books to remove this.  This incorrect info isn't only in the Wiki about Thousand Island Dressing but others.  Sometime in the next week, when I have time, I'll change this.  Samclem (talk) 20:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The front and back of the linked scan of the 1900 cookbook from New Orleans both say "Copyright 1900." We should go with the printed reference unless you have another source. Jokestress (talk) 23:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The supposed 1900 cookbook from New Orleans is printed in a font that likely did not exist in 1900. I'm not a forensic font expert, but I have read ALOT of things printed before 1920 and in the mid-to late 1800s.  Also, an image of a woman in a martini glass shows her wearing a bathing suit that was not invented until at least the 1930s, if not the 50s.  Also, comments throughout the book relating to the temperature of ovens are not typically found in books from the period - as electric or gas ovens with automatic temperature controls did not exist.  Also, the book appears to be bound with one of those flexible plastic binders - that did not exist at the time.  I am very skeptical of the purported date of that source.  Particularly in light of the purported origin in the Northeast - and the lack of other contemporary evidence in other places.  Here is the address for the book: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044087451340;view=1up;seq=3  The name "Thousand Island Dressing" and recipes start showing up frequently in 1913.  Haven't found any earlier yet.  I would remove the comment.Svaihingen (talk) 00:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)


 * And, in addition, the cookbook is published for the "Free French Movement" - which sounds like it supported the Free French Movement and Free France, which was organized in 1940; after Germany invaded France and Petain sold out to the Germans. So the cookbook is nearly certainly not from 1900.  I would remove it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Svaihingen (talk • contribs) 20:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Ketchup as potential ingredient
An IP editor has repeatedly removed ketchup as a potential ingredient. Cookbooks which include ketchup in their ingredient list include:


 * Comfort Foods and Potluck: Grannie Gretta's Collection of Salads, Soups, Stews, and Covered Dishes, page 80. ISBN 9781412051293
 * The New Boston Globe Cookbook: More Than 200 Classic New England Recipes, p. 136. ISBN 9780762749881

Dozens more that attest ketchup as a possible ingredient. Jokestress (talk) 06:19, 3 April 2011 (UTC)


 * While we are on the topic, here is a source for tomato puree as well:
 * The World almanac guide to natural foods, page 231. ISBN 9780911818550


 * Also, this Thousand Island recipe says, "Some recipes called for chili sauce as opposed to ketchup..."


 * The new best recipe (Cook's Illustrated Magazine), p. 79. ISBN 9780936184746


 * The tomato-based condiment used is a matter of preference and not a case where there is one "true" ingredient. Jokestress (talk) 06:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Use by specific franchises
Per several comments above, I have moved the following passage from the article to here for discussion:


 * At In-N-Out Burger, all burgers come standard with their version of Thousand Island dressing, referred to as "spread"; "Animal Style" fries come with Thousand Island dressing in addition to grilled onions and melted cheese.

Use by various franchises and chains should probably be more comprehensive and sourced properly before being added back to the article. Jokestress (talk) 16:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Book of Famous Old New Orleans Recipes
There has been discussion about one of the sources, A Book of famous old New Orleans recipes used in the South for more than 200 years. Google Scholar lists an edition by JB Herndon, dated 1900 by Peerless Print. The Peerless cover scan in the article also says 1900. Another source, Pecans: The Story in a Nutshell, gives the date as 1900 or 1901. The Tremmel version appears to be a more recent reprint, probably from 1942. Per Publishers Weekly: "The Free French Relief Committee of 435 Park Avenue, New York, has republished "A Book of Famous Old New Orleans Recipes." Originally issued in 1900, the book has lost none of its flavor and, if anything, has improved with old age." This book attests Thousand Island dressing in its first edition. I am thus reverting.

Comments are welcome. Jokestress (talk) 18:41, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * See Talk:Chicken_à_la_King for additional info. The Annie Tremmel Wilson version is not from 1942, but apparently from sometime after 1995 -- it is a "modified" version of the original, which is undated.  Google Books doesn't give a 1900 date -- the closest it gets is "19--".  Anyway, it does seem plausible that the original edition is from 1900.
 * Has anyone here on WP actually seen that original edition with the 1900 cover date and read about Chicken a la King and Thousand Island Dressing in it? --Macrakis (talk) 19:12, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, full text used to be available on Google Books at the time I added this to both, though that has changed for some reason. Jokestress (talk) 21:41, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Roe Roe Roe your Boat
I thought the key ingredient in Thousand Islands was something FISHY?! Why do all the commercial brands list "caviar roe" among the ingredients?

If this is not so important (gauging by the fact that it's not even mentioned in the article!), what then distinguishes Thousand Islands from Russian? To say it is a "variant" is all fine and dandy, but what is the KEY DIFFERENCE?! 66.105.218.3 (talk) 03:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you have a published source for these claims? I didn't see any books that mention fish roe. The article states that this dressing typically contains chopped items that comprise the distinction between this and Russian dressing. Jokestress (talk) 23:36, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Is this article good enough to be submitted to review and be reclassified?
Recently, I have seen vast improvements in this article in that most of the dubious citations have been removed and replaced with higher quality references, like an academic paper and some serious newspaper articles. Is this article getting close to the point in which it can be submitted to external review and advance to a higher classification?

1) Can all claims made in this article be supported by reputable references that could be accessed by any reviewer? Has anyone bothered to read the existing references?

2) Has all the information that could be gathered about its hazy origins been incorporated at this point? Are there any other plausible theories that still needs to be investigated?

3) There are 2 references in the article that are not available online. Has anyone actually looked at them? Does anyone has access to the The Oregon Countryman?  If not, I suggest replacing this reference.

What would it take to get this article to the point in which it could be mentioned on the front page of WP? 50.195.224.153 (talk) 01:48, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

The Secret Lives of Dressings
The simplest preparation of Thousand Island Dressing is mayonnaise, ketchup, and pickle relish. (Mayonnaise and ketchup is French dressing, and adding more ketchup gives Russian dressing. Mayonnaise and Relish alone is tarter sauce.) Drsruli (talk) 04:42, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Insert citation needed tags
I have inserted two citation needed tags for the Uses section of the main article. The reason being is because the citations given appear to be blogs, and therefore are questionable for use as references, and are probably inappropriate within the context of an objective and encyclopedic tone. 108.235.248.227 (talk) 23:34, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: The author of the Serious Eats article is J. Kenji López-Alt, a noted chef and food writer. As for the other citation in question, Food & Wine is a magazine that appears to have editorial control and not is not listed on any of WP blacklists. Although the section itself needs better copy editing, it is my opinion that the citations in questions are ok. -- 108.71.214.235 (talk) 06:02, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I removed them, as I agree that the citations are reliable and sufficient. Plus, that would not be the correct tag to use anyway, as that is for when there is no citation at all. oknazevad (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2021 (UTC)