Talk:Thrint

Heads or teeth
"large, round heads lined with sharp teeth"

Their heads, or their mouths?

It says here that humans evolved on a planet seeded by not complete. In Pak Protectors, it says that humans on Earth evolved when a Pak ship crashed, and their Tree-of-Life failed. This might not be inconsistent, if in fact, Pak Protectors were what evolved on aforementioned planet. But, I don't the stories well enough to say this. Mcr314 01:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Selective pressure
Doesn't make much sense to me that they would be so incapable (clumsy, low-IQ, etc.). The given explanation of a lack of selective pressure to become more dextrous and intelligent given their Power conflicts with the assertion that all species on their home planet also had the Power and had a rough parity with each other. LeoO3 17:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Two possibilities. First, the Thrint may have degenerated after their long period of dominance, like cave fish losing their vision. Second, picture this scenario: a spacegoing civilization encounters a sentient species rapidly evolving towards civilization. They enter orbit, send down a survey team, and leave. None of the Homo heidelbergensis even realize they're there. Now, replay this scenario, assuming that heidelbergensis is a powerful telepath. They immediately realize they are being observed, take command of the survey crew and then the ship. Then they start spreading their empire. According to this interpretation, if aliens hadn't encountered the Thrint early on, the Thrint would have evolved to their equivalent of Homo sapiens: a being of high enough intelligence, tool proficiency and cultural development to stand on their own. I believe I remember something saying that the Thrintun were neolithic hunter-gatherers when they first encountered aliens. Whichever it is, it's clear why they died out-- even those whose mind-shield or stasis fields protected them on Suicide Night would have quickly gone extinct without slaves to care for them-- their own society had simply become far too complex for them to handle unaided.


 * I guess a third possibility is that they developed tool use and language until their brains became developed enough that, as a side effect, they became telepathic-replete, at which point they did gain a telepathic advantage over non-sentients from their world. But that's totally unattested by the fiction.


 * Wellspring 04:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Reverted comment on the Thrint
Niven is inconsistent in his description of the Thrint not due to changes in the Thrint species but simply due to narrative inconsistencies. In World of Ptavvs, Kzanol is a "little green monster". However, in later stories, for example The Soft Weapon and to some extent In the Hall of the Mountain King, they are described as being very large and ungainly. You could argue that In the Hall of the Mountain King, as a MKW story, is non-canon (though I believe Niven does consider that particular one to be canon). You can also argue that the offhand description might have been from the Tnuctip perspective, who are smaller than almost every other sentient species in Known Space history. But The Soft Weapon is pretty explicit about Thrint size, a description that within Known space chronology is very close to World of Ptavvs. Anyway, that's why I reverted HalfShadow's addition.

The Grogs are consistently attested to be large; however as HalfShadow correctly points out, after two billion years any change is easily explained by evolution.

Wellspring 04:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Where does the Soft Weapon say Thrints were 8 feet tall? Can't find it. --Michael C. Price talk 14:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)