Talk:Tibla

Article life
I noticed a poor article, Estonian vocabulary, which contained only a word table and decided to expand it. While browsing web, I came across this peculiar word. I forgot the term to denote the event when a word comes from a another language and acquires an unusual meaning. If nobody helps me, I will try to find it in wikipedia :-) Laudak (talk) 01:50, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Hangon
Don't you page patrollers see the tag "under construction"? Your reason is completely invalid; just go try and delete the words nigger or shit. The topic does have content and potential for expansion, if you cared to do a minimal google search. Laudak (talk) 01:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I endorse keeping this article; if it is notable enough on the Russian Wikipedia, then it is notable on all other Wikipedias. GSMR (talk) 02:27, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Factual accuracy
the statement: "Its severity is comparable to that of nigger" that has been referred to the source [2] has interpreted the source quite freely. the article is an opinion piece by Ahto Lobjakas and in no place he even uses the word "nigger" but says "negro" (Estonian:"neeger")instead. And he definately dosn't say anything about "tibla" severity is comparable to that of nigger.

Also, the claim that "tibla is an ethnic slur which refers to Russians" is not exactly accurate. More precise is the description below in the article: tibla has been used as a slur which refers to Homo Sovieticus no matter the ethnicity. For example Russians like Alexander Pushkin or Alexander Nevsky etc. could never be called "tibla". So it seems that the article needs some work.--Termer (talk) 22:19, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

In my experience too "tibla" is used solely for people strongly associated with Soviet Union, especially (former) Soviet politicians or KGB members. But ÕS identifying it as "venelane" is a major argument. I'll mail them about that. --VillemVillem (talk) 19:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC) And I did, and I was told the entry in ÕS won't be reviewed until ~2013. --VillemVillem (talk) 03:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I would like to comment here on this particular discussion. Honestly, I don't know what life is like in Estonia, but I can't seriously imagine equating tibla to nigger. Perhaps they are similar in severity, but not really. Because it misses a key point- the nature of the relationship between the two peoples. Whites in the US South were never oppressed are subordinated to blacks, their culture was never oppressed by blacks; and despite all they may claim, they have never once been victimized by blacks. That is not true of the relationship between Estonians and Russians. Russians have, at various times, victimized Estonians in a large variety of ways, as has happened to many of the other minorities of the historical Russian Empire, Soviet Union, etc (that's not to say Russians themselves were not victimized by the government run by primarily their own ethnic kin, but from the perspective of a non-Russian, it is ethnic oppression). Calling someone a nigger in the US South is merely an expression of hatred. Calling a Russian a tibla is not only an expression of hatred, but it is actually more an expression of fear (fear that Russians will aid Russia reconquering Estonia, or are there infiltrating it, etc.). At least, that's my view on the topic. --Yalens (talk) 22:08, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Sibulavenelased
I strongly suspect that the word 'tibla' may be a contraction of the term "sibulavenelased" or "Onion Russians", a very old term for Russian Old Believers who lived by Lake Peipsi, and later for the owners of dachas in the area but who were residents of, e.g., St. Petersburg. Unfortulately it is my hypothesis I didn't find any published connection yet. - Altenmann >t 11:05, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I must say I have never heard of such connection and I seriously doubt it exists - Sibulavenelased (старове́ры) had lived at the shore of Peipsi for centuries, women growing onions and men often working as builders (stone buildings were their specialty, I think). Tibla, on the other hand, has probably always had negative connections while Sibulavenelased were considered to be pious and hard-working people (esp. prior to WWII).
 * Both "ты, бля" and Vitebsk Governorate origins seem to be more probable.
 * However, I do think that Sibulavenelased would be a great candidate for a separate article - we have Rannarootslased (Estonian Swedes) already, but Peipsi Russians are barely mentioned at Russians_in_Estonia. http://www.starover.ee/ would be a good starting point, unless it is considered to be self-published.
 * -- Sander Säde 08:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd say that 'tipski'->'tibla' is much less probable that 'sibulad'->'tiblad'. But again, neither opinion has evidence, and V.Kures is mentioned only because he is published and I am not :-) -No.Altenmann >t 06:04, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

The two terms (sibulavenelased and tibla) are definitely not related. Sibulavenelased (Onion Russians) as a term is something I as an Estonian can verify is used in most parts of Estonia to refer to the Russians who have for centuries settled around Lake Peipus and grow agricultural products on the rich soil, most notably onions. Used in the right context, it is definitely NOT offensive. HOWEVER, the term "sibulad" (Onions) may be referred to in an offensive manner, suggesting that people of Russian heritage in Estonia are no better than simple farmers. Tibla is another matter entirely. It is the ultimate curse word used by Estonians for a Russian person. There are of course numerous other, more dramatic and graphic words one can use, but in terms of (pardon my French) "nigger" or "chink", tibla comes quite close. It is used to refer to a person "without a homeland and future", a Homo Sovieticus residing anywhere (not just Estonia!) who does not wish to learn any other languages than Russian, supports Russian imperialist and fascist views to the extreme and often wears the Ribbon of St George without even knowing what it means. Therefore, to conclude, "sibulavenelased", at least in my view and that of my friends, is a completely neutral term. In fact, we bought our winter onions from the "sibulavenelased". They were nice. Not tiblas. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.191.163.186 (talk • contribs)
 * Thank you for your opinion. Actually, we (editors of this article) basically know about word sibulavenelased . But we don't know for sure about (origin of) tibla. What is really needed here is a solid, scholar proof of the etymology. As for sibulavenelased having been nice, we know many words which usage turned from nice things to nasty. Like democratic word "soviet" (meaning 'council') to "Soviet" (meaning 'Gulag')... (-: -No.Altenmann >t 06:04, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

On reverting
Undid this revert, as I had made more changes than just adding text about the the 1937 Eesti Entsüklopeedia entry. If there's something specific that requires more information, or has insufficient information, then it's not good to remove all work, but instead to add a tag requesting more information, such as Citation needed. - Mardus /talk 18:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Vitebljane
Although I put the Sirp reference in, I didn't even notice there about "Vitebljane". - Mardus /talk 11:35, 10 December 2015 (UTC)