Talk:Tietze syndrome

Vote to move?
This article states that Costochondritis and Tietze's syndrome are the same medical condition. It has been clearly stated on numerous health site's articles that while they are similar they are two separate conditions. I would like to move the Costochondritis information to a separate article, while leaving only the Tietze's syndrome information in this article. Anyone else have an opinion on this matter? -YeLLeY511 02:25, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree that the two should be separated. As a person afflicted with Tietze's I think that the pain of the actual swelling should put it in a class all its own. Thank you for speaking my mind 99.225.134.134 (talk) 00:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Costochondritis and Tietze syndrome aren't interchangeable terms but there is inflammation of the costal cartilages always present at Tietze thus it could be called costochondritis. However not every inflammated sternocostal joint has swelling or symptoms resulting from it, when these are present we have a case of Tietze syndrome.

Costochondritis and Tietze syndrome should be kept together as they are in most cases the same pathological entity. Another possibility would be to make a pathology focused article about costochondritis (there are articles on similar entities) and a Tietze article more focused on symptoms etc. Mksuom (talk) 17:05, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

It clearly states in the article that they are not the same thing. Hence they should have separate articles. 156.34.184.155 (talk) 03:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Syndromes are described with the symptoms they cause. Pathology uses its own terms to describe the state or organs. This results in a seemingly paradoxical taxonomy: a clinician could say that you have either Tietze syndrome or costocondritis based on your symptoms (both considered medical conditions) but a pathologist couldn't say that you have Tietze's, because syndromes don't describe organs. Mksuom (talk) 01:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Information regarding Costochondritis vs. Tietze's syndrome
Tietze syndrome is often referred to as costochondritis, but the two are distinct conditions. You can tell the difference by noting the following:
 * Tietze syndrome usually comes on abruptly, with chest pain radiating to your arms or shoulder and lasting several weeks. Tietze syndrome is accompanied by a localized swelling at the painful area (the junction of the ribs and breastbone).
 * Tietze syndrome, on the other hand, exhibits swellings at the rib-cartilage junction. Costochondritis has no noticeable swelling. Neither condition involves pus or abscess formation.
 * Tietze syndrome usually affects the junctions at the second and third ribs. The swelling may last for several months. The syndrome can develop as a complication of surgery on your sternum months to years after the operation.
 * When costochondritis occurs as a result of infection after surgery, you will see redness, swelling, or pus discharge at the site of the surgery. The doctor will seek to reproduce tenderness over the affected rib joints, usually over the fourth to sixth ribs in costochondritis, and over the second to third ribs in Tietze syndrome. In costochondritis with unknown causes, there is no significant swelling of costochondral joints.
 * There is swelling as well as tenderness of the rib-cartilage junctions in Tietze syndrome. Although some doctors use the terms costochondritis and Tietze syndrome interchangeably, Tietze syndrome has a sudden onset without any preceding respiratory illness or any history of minor trauma. In Tietze syndrome, there is frequently radiation of pain to arms and shoulders as well as pain and tenderness associated with swelling at the spot that hurts.
 * Your doctor might refer to costochondritis by other names, including chest wall pain, costosternal syndrome and costosternal chondrodynia. When the pain of costochondritis is accompanied by swelling it's referred to as Tietze's syndrome.
 * In contrast to myocardial ischemia or infarction, costochondritis is a benign cause of chest pain and is an important consideration in the differential diagnosis. Although the term costochondritis often is used interchangeably with fibrositis and Tietze syndrome, these are distinct diagnoses.
 * Costochondritis should be distinguished from Tietze syndrome, a condition involving the same area of the front of the chest. Costochondritis is not associated with swelling, as opposed to Tietze syndrome where swelling is characteristic. Tietze syndrome is an inflammation of the costochondral cartilages of the upper front of the chest. Patients with Tietze syndrome develop tenderness and swelling over the ribs and cartilage near the breast bone (sternum). Redness, tenderness, and heat can also be present but a localized swelling is the distinguishing finding. The pain is variable, often sharp, can be confused with heart pain, and can last from hours to weeks. It can cause difficulty with sleeping and even rolling over in bed is sometimes painful. Blood testing (Sedimentation Rate or C-Reactive Protein Test) can show signs of inflammation in patients with Tietze syndrome, whereas patients with costochondritis alone typically have normal tests for inflammation. --YeLLeY511 03:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Confusing
I'm not a medical person, but if the two conditions are separate but similar,they should have separate pages. It's confusing to follow a link from Google labeled "Costochondritis", only to end up on a page labeled "Tietze syndrome", and then to read a sentence saying that the two are similar but not the same. If they are not the same, why does costochondritis redirect here? This is not a valid information taxonomy if the conditions are technically different. 174.0.243.122 (talk) 04:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

You could say that there's several different taxonomies inside medicine. It's a bit challenging for wikipedia in cases like this. I could consider rewriting part of the article to reflect the fact that Costocondritis and Tietze syndrome can be used separate as conditions but are overlapping and possibly simultanuous in a different levels of taxonomy. E.g. there's always inflammation of ribs present (costocondritis) in Tietze syndrome, but it's the symptoms and clinical findings that classify it as a syndrome. Mksuom (talk) 01:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Comparison of Costochondritis and Tietze Syndrome
I personally am glad for the article comparison, speaking as a medical professional. It points out definitave criteria for consideration of each diagnosis. One may not have considered the alternative diagnosis if it was not pointed out in the article. Recap: Tietze Syndrome 1. Possible elevated ESR or CRP. 2. Swelling and inflammation process noticable in chest and/or rib area. 3. Abrupt or sudden onset with out preceding event. 4. Severe pain that radiates.

These are the s/s that make it different from chostochonritis.

Chostochondritis 1. Pain does not radiate. 2. Swelling/inflammation is not visible. 3. ESR and CRP are not usually elevated. 4. Often preceding event before pain: infection, coughing, vomiting, laughing, injury, straining, over exerting, radiation therapy, surgery, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.57.41.2 (talk) 13:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Can we stop with the theorizing? Jumping in the cold water hurt your chest????
I removed this passage, presumably written by someone who jumped into a cold pool once. It is in DIRECT violation of the rules governing Wikipedia medical entries.

Theoretical cause of Costochondritis and/or Tietze's Syndrome:

The following information is only theorized by Ryan Matthew Conard and should not be taken as a conclusive medical or scientific cause for Costochondritis or Tietze's Syndrome.

It is possible that Costochondritis may be directly caused by cold water shock ("cold shock"). As best noted by Ryan Conard, he first experienced Costochondritis immediately after a full immersion into cold water (below 50oF). This immediate onset of Costochondritis can best be conceived by the body's reaction to sudden, very cold temperatures in water. When your body is immediately immersed in cold water it involuntarily gasps for air, up to the full volume your lungs can support, then afterward you involuntarily hyperventilate for 1-3 minutes. This reaction of your body to cold water is known as "cold shock." The first large, and very sudden gasp for air could be the leading cause to Costochondritis in this particular case. Whereas, once the body hits the cold water causing "cold shock" and forcing your body to gasp for air violently there is a chance you may damage any of the three layers of intercostal muscles between the ribs (including External, Internal and Innermost), thus resulting in the cause for Costochondritis."

Endquote

I can theorize who is repeatedly restoring the above. Please test the theories or back them up with something. Perhaps a leap into a 40 degree pool will help.

Initiating Tietze syndrome-costochondritis split
If there are no objections within one month of this posting, I will initate seperation of the information on these two conditions, which has rather confusingly been lumped into one article. Anyone who would like to assist is more than welcome to do so. Ronk01 (talk) 18:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Please do. I want to know about costochondritis (I have it) and I keep being redirected to this article (which I don't have). I understand it's a fairly common occurrence so I don't see why it shouldn't have its own article. All the taxonomy and pathology talk aside I want to learn more about this more prolific case. LostLucidity (talk) 19:49, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * De-merge complete. Ronk01   talk  20:12, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Costocondritis redirect
This should be fixed to link to the ACTUAL COSTOCHONDRITIS PAGE instead of this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.58.74.187 (talk) 01:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Differential includes Bornholm's disease
Tietze syndrome's differential includes Bornholm disease (AKA devil's grip) caused by the Enterovirus Coxsackie B.195.134.64.225 (talk) 08:50, 10 October 2016 (UTC)