Talk:Tijuana/Archive 1

Infrastructure information added
I added information in the Infrastructure section with regard to the electricity and water, although I did not have much to say.

English information different then Spanish?
Why is the information on Tijuana different in this English version? The Spanish Wikipedia version of Tijuana's definition is much more complete. I really would like to see all of the Spanish version translated into english with no omitions. I mean in the spanish version we read that the name Tijuana means "near the Ocean". Also, there is information on the Coronado Islands on the coast of Tijuana. All of this and much more was ommited in the English version. Why? Afraid of the truth?


 * this article is horrible & biased, "afraid of the truth?," I think someone is, because nothing is mentioned about the city's awful crime rates (see below), and the article is written like a cheesy brochure for the city, is unorganized, and more....stan goldsmith 03:09, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

nice little article. like the pictures. wish i could think of something to add.

2 things come to mind. 1, a crime section. and 2. theres no mention of soccer in sports??

well, some one said they wish i could contribute a lil more, so i have. a little history on the city of Tijuana.

Crime/Murders/Kidnappings
There have been numerous murders in Tijuana this year, amounting to almost one a day. The rate of police brutality, false-imprisonment, and bribes has also gone up. I put a page on this but it was deleted. This page on Tijuana is really vanilla-coated and is far from the truth. I love Tijuana but it needs a LOT of help right now and is sinking into a very bad area. Revoluccion BLVD is now a row of strip clubs with a few touristy bars that rip you off.

Also there is nothing on Zona Norte - the prostitution zone of Tijuana where prostitution is legal. Why not?

I think someone is avoiding the truth about TJ. Zona Norte has streets and streets of prostitutes standing outside buildings and rowdy type bars. These are mostly Southern, or other Central American, women who have been duped into prostitution and drugs by gangs.

These are the most important issues, ones that are openly talked about in Tijuana itself and in other parts of Mexico, so why are they being deleted from here?


 * Find some reliable sources for the crime rate and for crime-ridden areas and we can include that info. -Will Beback 20:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Here are some articles with stats and information about TJ, with sources. Thanks.

Kidnap fears causing some to leave Tijuana

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20050521-9999-1n21kidnap.html

Days are grueling and grisly for Tijuana's homicide cops Rise in slayings viewed as renewal of drug wars

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20050524-9999-1n24tjmurder.html

U.S. citizen kidnapped in Tijuana

April 12, 2006

TIJUANA – A U.S. citizen of Chinese descent was kidnapped Monday afternoon from in front of his business here, just days after another kidnapped U.S. businessman escaped from his abductors.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20060412-9999-1m12kidnap.html

from US state department website:

CRIME IN BORDER CITIES: Visitors to the U.S. – Mexico border region, including cities such as Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, Reynosa and Matamoros, should remain alert and be aware of their surroundings at all times.

Some border posts have seen an increase in violence over the past year and some of it has been directed against U.S. citizens. Local police forces have been ineffective in maintaining security in some regions along the border. Drug-related violence also has increased dramatically in recent months, and shows no sign of abating. While U.S. citizens not involved in criminal activities are generally not targeted, innocent bystanders are at risk from the increase in violence in the streets of border cities.

In Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo and Tijuana, shootings have taken place at busy intersections and at popular restaurants during daylight hours. The wave of violence has been aimed primarily at members of drug trafficking organizations, criminal justice officials and journalists. However, foreign visitors and residents, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region. In recent months, the worst violence has been centered in the city of Nuevo Laredo in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, where numerous citizens were kidnapped and/or murdered. U.S. citizens are urged to be especially aware of safety and security concerns when visiting the border region and exercise common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas of border towns during daylight hours.

Mexican authorities have failed to prosecute numerous crimes committed against American citizens, including murder and kidnapping. Local police forces suffer from a lack of funds and training, and the judicial system is weak, overworked, and inefficient. Criminals, armed with an impressive array of weapons, know there is little chance they will be caught and punished. In some cases, assailants have been wearing full or partial police uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles, indicating some elements of the police might be involved.

Visitors are very vulnerable when visiting the local "red light districts," particularly if they are departing alone in the early hours of the morning. In Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana, there has also been a rise in automobile accidents in which municipal police extort money from U.S. citizen victims.

Murder Rate:

(for 2005 up to August 2005)

However, 15 years after PAN took Baja, both a former district attorney and a prominent journalist have been assassinated in a six-month span, and the murder rate—the majority cartel-related executions—will probably break 200 this year, five times that of San Diego.

http://www.sdcitybeat.com/article.php?id=2280

From: Priest's Slaying Shakes Tijuana Los Angeles Times | October 27, 2005 http://ccs.berkeley.edu/~border/list_articles/OPT_Oct27_PriestSlayinginTijuana.html

He was gunned down Monday morning in his 1993 Ford Thunderbird in a parking lot. Police found six bullet wounds in his head and neck, and his wrists handcuffed behind his back.

Velazquez's death, along with another slaying over the weekend, pushed the homicide toll in the Tijuana area this year past the record of 355 set in 2004, state police officials said.

From: Reuters Tijuana "zebras" latest casualty of Mexico drug war Mon Apr 10, 2006 http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-04-10T121220Z_01_N02194025_RTRIDST_0_OUKOE-UK-MEXICO-ZEBRAS.XML

Last year more than 1,500 people were killed by warring drug gangs nationwide. And in Tijuana, a key smuggling route to California, 438 bodies turned up last year, most of them victims of vicious cartel infighting gunned down in the streets.

from wikitravel:

Tijuana's Zona Norte is adjacent to the tourist zone in the Zona Centro, to the north, and just south of the border. This zone is primarily residential and also includes the local red light district. Prostitution is legal in this zone and very visible.

A police station in the middle of the red light district and the presence of numerous police on foot make the area reasonably safe, though if you wander into one of the many secluded pedestrian alleys you might never wander out again. Acting touristy in this zone will attract predators.

Prostitution horror for young women News investigation into the plight of young women forced into horror of prostitution http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/296058p-253464c.html


 * Not to mention the some 4000 federal troops that have been sent to city to deal with its crime problem...82.83.236.180 22:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have walked through the streets of the North Zone and the only people I had to worry about were the drunk and obnoxious grigos from San Diego looking for trouble. The touts in front of the brothels and bars are there only to solicit business.  If you respect them and politely ignore them as you walk by, they don't mess with you.  If you act like an uppity asshole, you will probably get your ass kicked.  But I never saw a tout leaving his post by the door to chase someone down the street and agressively solicit them.  A cordial "gracias, pero no" or just not saying anything goes a long way. Stephanie Weil 19:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice to hear that Americans feel safe in Tijuana, I'm very happy for you. I bet it's great to come across the border for a little day trip, maybe pick up some cheap medicine, a bottle of liquor, maybe even a big Sombrero with a Mexican flag! That will make a great gift for Bill back at the office. Thank you for sharing your advice. You're right, the police officers who were decapitated earlier this year probably should have just given a cordial "gracias, pero no". Rev. Luis Velázquez Romero should have minded his own business and not acted like an uppity asshole, maybe it would have kept him from being handcuffed and shot in the head six times. Oh wait, those were just Mexicans, silly me, not real people like Americans. The truth is, the crime rate in Tijuana is quite high, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Just because it's not happening in front of your eyes in the middle of tourist areas, doesn't mean it's not happening. This article is about Tijuana, not "an Americans view of Tijuana". There are many people in Tijuana that are fed up with it, and are trying to change things. You're not helping. But thanks for the report on the security situation in the tourist shops, see you again soon Stephanie! 89.245.44.195 17:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

'''Confirmed info on murders/kidnappings: http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1187037#Post1187037 please feel free to use the info or to post Google Earth placemarks, i'm happy to contribute!''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.219.69.217 (talk) 12:02, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

and i have to agree with User:89.245.44.195, the situation in Tijuana and especailly Ciudad Juarez, as well as Tecate and Rosarito, the State of Sinaloa, Guererro and Chihuahua are all in great need of getting rid of the killings and kidnappings, torture, beheadings and all the insanity...! I'm not from Mexico, but i love it and i think the people of Mexico deserve a decent life...!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.219.69.217 (talk) 12:07, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Table
I'm not sure what's wrong with the infobox. Can someone please look at the code and fix it? &mdash; J3ff 09:43, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Some minor edits (just made):

1) Added "in Tijuana" to the end of this sentence: "In 1994 PRI presidential candidate Luis Donaldo Colosio was assassinated."

2) Added "-San Ysidro" and slighly reworded this sentence: "Tijuana is now the most crossed border in the world."

3) Deleted this sentence: "The city of Tijuana promises a better life style and standard of living than ever before and has made use of its phenomenal multi-level demographics." If someone can rewrite it and then add it back please do so... I just can't make any sense of it or figure out what context it brings.

Also, while I didn't change any of the following, could someone clarify this paragraph:

"The international events of the following years had profound repercussions on the city. Tourism increased significantly as innumerable Americans came to Tijuana to enjoy the nightlife. In addition, the large number of Mexican citizens from all over the country began to relocate to Tijuana, tripling the population. From 21,971 inhabitants in 1940, the city grew in excess of 65,364 by 1950. In the 1950's when, nightlife and tourism began to decline, the city started to restruct its tourist industry, by promoting a more family orientated scene. Tijuana began to develop a greater variety of attractions and activities to offer its visitors.

Anyways, great job by the authors!

Geography
The discussion of prostitues should be moved from the geography section. Perhaps a section should be added on 'Border Issues,' instead.

Contradictory information?
The start of the article says the name came from the indigenous people, but later the article mentions something called Rancho Tía Juana. Which one is it? "Rancho Tía Juana" makes no appearence in es:Tijuana, and it sounds a bit fishy to me. es:Tijuana also says that it is from an indigenous word, and not Spanish. -- Andyluciano 15:49, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes places, especially businesses, are not spelled in the traditional "Tijuana" way. See: 'Tia Juana's La Terraza', a popular gringo hangout on La Revo, as an example.

Layout
I made some changes on the layout so it can resemble those presented in other urban related articles (e.g. Los Angeles, San Diego). Also, I have to congratulate the authors of the article, they did a nice job gathering and typing the information. Lrd1rocha 07:48, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

tijuana is good or bad crime wise?

Well, you know, I grew up and lived in Tijuana until a few months ago. The criminality certainly is high ( I being an ex-homegirl) but the police does what it can to protect the tourists ^_^ We Tijuanenses think that the name comes from the Rancho Tia Juana, I really hadn't heard the indian translation. The article is very complete though.70.56.156.193 05:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)plikt15

Agree with Crime addition
Hello. There should be a section on crime and the prostitution of Tijuana. It appears as though the mayor wrote this biased entry!! Alot of murders and tourist are robbed by the dozens. The Mexican mafia runs this border city. Drugs are rampant. It should also be noted that you are not encouraged to stay there after dark as this is when most violent crimes against tourists occur. --Thanks. Stuart Pid.

Definately need a section on the crime. I was there for two hours with my buddy and a guy planted drugs on my friend. He caught it immediately and ditched it. The cops just "happened" to walk around the corner seconds later and just "happened" to pick us out of the crowd to search. I'm sure that's not the majority of experiences for tourists, but that's something that would just never happen in the States. When I crossed back into the US, the customs officials' welcome home greeting: "You're lucky you didn't get mugged."

Anything is possible anywhere and the United States is no exception. If Americans where so concerned about crime in Tijuana then they would stay in the United States. Thats not to say crime isnt high in Tijuana but the chances of being mugged in LA or NY is comparable to Tijuana. Serio_310


 * Your chances of being executed however are quite a bit higher. Torture, kidnapping, and beheadings seem to happen more frequently in Tijuana...89.245.44.195 18:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Vanilla coated
This page should be flagged for a non-neutral point of view. There are none of the actual facts relating to the lifestyle people in Tijuana live. This page on Tijuana is really vanilla-coated and is far from the truth. Vivaperucarajo 02:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Regarding what exactly? --&#123;&#123;SUBST:User:Coryma}} 23:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What makes the page "non-neutral" and "vanilla-coated" and "far from the truth"? And how exactly does one define the "actual facts" any city population's "lifestyle"?--Namenderkrieg (talk) 04:38, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Fussball/Soccer
Shouldn't the lik for "Club Tijuana etc etc" be changed to "Dorados de Tijuana"? --&#123;&#123;SUBST:User:Coryma}} 23:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, never mind this one. Seems like the club has changed hands yet again, and been going by Gallos Blancos or some such thing. Gahhh. The FMF is just as confusing as MLS!--&#123;&#123;SUBST:User:Coryma}} 19:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Tone
The tone of this article basically sucks. It doesn't sound like an encyclopedia at all. I'm too lazy to change ti now, but could someone get to work on that? It sounds ripped out of a tourist guidebook.
 * I'd say it looks more like Tiajuana's biggest PR firm came and wrote the article. There are so many sentences in here that portray Tiajuana in the most positive of ways. I think this article needs an NPOV makeover. Hojimachong 00:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please provide evidence of the alleged non-neutral point of view within the article. Whenever one makes a claim, one should back it up with hard evidence.--Namenderkrieg (talk) 23:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Demographics
Their should be a section in this article for Tijuana's demographics. Its a diversed city with a lot of Central and South Americans, as well as a lot of American citizens who live there as well.Mrsmith93309 00:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

NPOV
the section "tijauna makes me happy" is obviously slanted and full of opinion. it seems to be one writer's attempt to insert his/her opinion on the city into the article. it should be removed.

The overall tone of the article seems to be npov; I've moved the template to the beginning of the article to reflect what I percieve as the consensus of this discussion page. Earendilmm 18:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Driving directions??
Why in the world are there driving directions? ("driving to Tijuana from the USA") This reads like a tourism brochure. This section should be deleted. Earendilmm 19:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

"Tijuana in the media"
"Tijuana makes me happy" does not need a summary on this page, seeing as it has its own page. The section titled "Tijuana makes me happy" should be replaced with a section titled "tijuana in the media" which refers readers to "Tijuana makes me happy"'s own page as well as any other movies or other media centered on Tijuana. Does anyone have any objections or suggestions for what articles would deserve references here? Earendilmm 18:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Galgos.jpg
Image:Galgos.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 10:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

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Uhm, no.
The article at present declares
 * The people of the city believe in another "foundation myth"

One thing abotu which we may be certain is that the people of Tijuana are not unanimous in such belief. To claim this-or-that for “the people” is almost invariably pernicious. —SlamDiego&#8592;T 05:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)