Talk:Tila Tequila/Archive 2

Tila's "Career"
Tila is also a rapper...it's not listed on the article, one of her known rap songs is "I Love U" Feat. YA BOY, which the song is also on her Reality Television show "A Shot of Love". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.174.27 (talk) 00:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This article about Tila should be unlocked and revised. While Miss Tequila may be known as a "model" and "singer" and the "most popular person on MySpace as of April 2006" and all the other things she has appeared on TV and the interweb as, what she really represents is a celebrity that is known for being a celebrity. She is a creation of early 21st century media technology and when her 15 minutes is inevitably over, she will be more known for being a "famous for being famous" celebrity than for being a "singer" or "model" or "entertainer".

For earlier versions of "celebrities" similar to Tila Tequila, see Angelyne.
 * Unlock denied. That is a WP:IDONTLIKEIT claim, and that analysis is original research. You need sources to prove your claim. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 16:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * See Famous for being famous Benjiboi 18:39, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

She seems yet another Paris Hilton wannabe
And she uses like a ton of makeup. Is she really that relevant to have her own wikipedia entry?66.201.163.228 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * She's a semi-celeb and a model, so, yeah. I don't like her, either...but I don't like a LOT of the subjects featured on Wikipedia (including dictators and terrorists) but they're part of our world and they're well known and this is an online encyclopedia, so... TabascoMan77 (talk) 03:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * cough cough cough! -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 09:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Referring the last name as "Nguyen" or "Tequila"
I and User:Benjiboi are in a Naming conflict about how to refer to the subject of the article. I'm asking for a third opinion on this situation and a moratorium on all edits in regards to her last name until this matter is resolved.

Another editor believes that the all references to Tila's last name should be "Tequila" instead of "Nguyen", since she's known in recent years by that stage name. However, according to sources, it is a nickname that was adapted to MySpace screen name. The rationale is WP:NAME, that states the article name should be referred to the subject's most known name because it shows better on search engines. However, I have not found sources that refer to her last name as "Tequila".

I also feel that changing all references to Nguyen from the article, even those which refer to her before she was known as Tequila. If consensus shows that we use "Tequila", we should only refer to events that occurred after she began to be called "Tila Tequila", as she was called "Nguyen" during her modeling career.

See also original naming convention conversation further up the page. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 05:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm not really sure one way or the other, but it seems that you should look at articles for similar people. For example, the article is at Tiffany Pollard, not New York. It's a bit different, but Madonna's article is not for her full name. I'll add more if I can think of them... &mdash;  Hello Annyong  [ t &#183; c ] 06:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My opinion: If some of the information above is true (i.e. that an album is going to be released under "Tila Tequila"), there's a strong case for the article being located at "Tila Tequila". At the very least, due to activity since mid-2006 the previous consensus should be revisited to determine whether it is still consensus. The best thing to do would be for someone to look at the articles being written today (not historical articles), appearances on talk shows (and promos for such), etc. and see how she is introduced; the article name should probably follow suit if there is a clear consensus in the media for the stage name. As for the naming throughout the article, there is no justification IMO for referring to her as "Tila Tequila" when discussing her past before she adopted that name. If the stage name is used later in the article, be sure to make the reason for the transition clear to the reader somehow. Anomie 13:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I stand by my original premise that all article naming should go to Tequila however I think we should also introduce some balancing name transition content like a mention in lede and possibly a demarcation in chronology when Tequila became her name du jour. I've done some reference clean-up and Nguyen was used at the beginning and seems to remain the legal name on website (I could be wrong) but Tequila seems to be what she is now using as her stage name in prime-time TV and mainstream music as well as modeling. If someone is so emboldened it would be nice to have some direct quotes from Tila about what she calls herself or if she even cares etc. Benjiboi 18:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I would say keep "Tequila" in the article title, as that's how she's commonly known, but refer to her in the article as Nguyen, as that's her legal name. It's hard to gauge what to do from other articles; for instance Tupac Shakur is referred to as "Shakur" rather than his nickname 2Pac, while in the featured article The Notorious B.I.G. the subject is consistently referred to as "Biggie". There needs to be more consistency on this.--Cúchullain t/ c 19:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I say it should refer to her as Tequila in the article, because it is the stage name she uses. Same as Terry Bolea is Hulk Hogan, He is referred to as Hogan.Aladdin Zane 03:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The Hogan article (in the same vein of all other professional wrestling bio articles) is set so that Bolea is used until he became widely known as Hogan. Biggie is a singular nickname, Tequila is a middle/surname style nickname. It will not make sense, as she is not known as only "Tequila". The biggie article fails style guidelines for having no references to his actual name other than the first occurrence. I'm tending to lean toward Anomie's idea. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 08:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Examples are nice but may be clouding the issue, we have naming conventions which are pretty clear: ""Most general rule overall: use the most common form of the name used in English if none of the rules below cover a specific problem." (Most rules covering royalty and titled notable people)."


 * We also have Manual of style for stage names: ""For people who are best known by a pseudonym, the legal name should usually appear first in the article, followed closely by the pseudonym. Follow this practice even if the article itself is titled with the pseudonym""


 * Both these seem to support using Tequila until she is no longer best known as Tequila. I must say that until I read the article I had never heard of her referred as anything but Tila Tequila and every reference I've seen since has also referred to her as such. Benjiboi 08:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The MOS says that the stage name should be stated near the actual name as it is shown right now in the article's lead sections. She was known mostly as Nguyen during her modeling, and did not attain Tequila until she used it as a MySpace username. Once again, why refer her as Tequila if she wasn't known as such at the time? - w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 20:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagree, just like someone who gets married and has a name change we typically note rather than using a birth name through part of the article, then a stage name, then a new stage name. I could be wrong but I believe that BIO's are to use the most-known name throughout the article. Benjiboi 00:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Resetting indents: I think this suggestion at the Naming conflicts page is the best way to describe my stance. State the subject in the correct historical context. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 18:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well we seem to agree a bit and as she is a living person her history is in process. My hunch is we should look for when her naming transitioned from her birth name over to her stage name and accordingly (assuming the article is somewhat chronological) put both names in the lede and then note when she switched names (and in which ways, stage, legal, recordings, modeling, etc) and then use Tequila for the rest of the article. Benjiboi 06:35, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

RfC: Naming conflict on last name
Please see the parent section. There has been a two-month dispute over how the subject should be referred to in regards to the last name being a stage name or a birth name. She has been known by both by the media over time, however we can't agree on a good convention.
 * I think you have a consensus here. Keep the main article at Tila Tequila, and refer to her as Nguyen until she started using Tequila, and Tequila after that. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 14:55, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As 99% of the public knows her only under the name Tila Tequila, this seems fair. Wedineinheck (talk) 12:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I fixed the article in order to follow that consensus. 20:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wedineinheck (talk • contribs)

Original name
The source for Nguyen's "original name" is inaccessible in both its current address and through the Wayback Machine. Could someone provide the gist of what the source says like where it got that information? In any case, it couldn't have been her "original" name because its order does not follow the usual Vietnamese name order (surname, then middle name, then given names), not to mention the missing diacritics that are absolutely essential to any Vietnamese word. DHN (talk) 20:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I found court documents listing a "Thien Thanh Thi Nguyen" as a defendant. If this is her, then it should be listed as her "legal name" in this article. DHN (talk) 20:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead. I find no other sources other than legal ones which state the whole 4-word name. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 00:04, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * There are several pages here. Badagnani (talk) 00:13, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I see there's a request at vi:Thảo luận:Tila Nguyễn. Badagnani (talk) 00:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It could be:


 * Nguyễn Thị Thanh Thiên
 * Nguyễn Thị Thiên Thanh
 * Nguyễn Thị Thiện Thanh

Badagnani (talk) 03:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

American Socialite?
Are you kidding me, why is she listed as an American socialite? That's ridiculous!

??????
I was simply lurking on "Recent Changes" and this page came up, so I wanted to see what was up here...first of all, it is unthinkable how long the entry is...can anyone really make a valid claim that all this information here (which yes, still reads like her publicist wrote it) will be useful to anyone in like even a year from now? It's funny how sometimes Wiki encourages people to lengthen articles that are stubs, but I think there should also be a clause that recommends one "shorten" an article. I've been reading some of the talk above and it's ridiculous...verification by MTV programs? Like her publicist/manager doesn't brief her on what to say and what not to say when she's on these tabloid/mindless programs...this is the problem with "anyone can edit"...credibility goes out the window...geez, she's not someone worthy of such a lengthy thing. Obviously my two cents, and obviously I won't be back, but one last parting word for most who maintain this "Tila Tequila" article, WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A FANSITE... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.22.226 (talk) 02:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your concern, if you feel that the article needs copy-editing to sound more neutral, than please do. or ask someone else to. As for article length, you might want to read up on this guideline about article length as well as verifiability, are you saying that MTV is not a reliable source? -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 05:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright... I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I highly doubt the issue here is the actual article itself. It's probably that you're looking too much into it. How does it read like her publicist wrote it? We're not saying she's the best or she's really good at porn or has a hot body. Why? Because there are no sources to back those things up. If we had to shorten an article instead of expand it, that's fine. But that's not how it works. Not to mention, it's called an encyclopedia for a reason. You can go ahead and look it up. Encyclopedias are meant to inform people. Like I said before, how is it a fansite? We're just stating the facts on her. But I see what the problem is here. You obviously don't like Tila or you're just jealous of her. Maybe both. Then you think we're sucking up to her by making an article on her. This article is not even long at all... if you want a long article, go look at United States housing bubble, South Africa, or United States. Maybe even Ayumi Hamasaki, also a good article and long. I'm sure there's more out there. Hate it or love it, I doubt Tila's popularity will be shooting down anytime soon... she seems to be getting more famous by the day. On a last note, this article has been around since 2004 and has gradually improved over the years. In fact, it's been a good article for awhile.  Lady  ★  Galaxy  22:15, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
This page has been suffering from so much vandalism in the past month or so. I guess these anonymous IPs really have nothing to do. I tried to get this page protected, but no one would do it for me. Could an admin who drops by just protect this page? It's been vandalized at least twice a day; check the page history. Thanks in advance.  Lady  ★  Galaxy  03:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The level of vandalism on this page does not meet what the protection policy requires for protection. At present the current level can be dealt with by those with rollback and reporting persistent vandals to WP:AIV. -MBK004 00:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

split comments

 * As I explained on your talk page, this is not a reliable source for a claim about a living person. It's an old version of a comercial webpage. Self-published websites may be used only if the material isn't contentious (and this clearly is, or I wouldn't be removing it.) Again, it doesn't matter if the material is relevant to her career, if it violates policy it stays out. If you want to say something about it, you'll need to find a reliable source discussing it.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say that including the claim is original synthesis, a form of original research. The best way to solve this is to find a reliable source that states that actually says Tila's Hotspot was made in 2001 as an adult website. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 20:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking it won't be too hard to find, she seems to talk about her career frequently. Including the info would be fine if an article (I'm betting no books or university journals have been written on her, yet anyway) backed it up, but I'm very opposed to using the primary source.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol well anyone wanna help me find more reliable sources? The only other sources I can find are threw other adult web sites...CrazyRob926 00:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but good luck with it:) If this hasn't been covered by reliable sources it may need to stay out indefinitely.--Cúchullain t/ c 01:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The phrasing is certainly much better now, but I still have serious concerns with using the primary sources for such material. If anything, the references need to be formatted correctly, including the dates of retrieval, rather than just bald links to the Wayback Machine. The best solution, however, would be giving reliable sources. As I said before, if none can be found, this may have to be taken out. It's not that the material is negative, per se, but that the source is poor for an article on a living person. Someone above brought up the concern with WP:SYNTH/WP:OR, this is a related problem.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

EP
i think the page shoukld show a picture of the SEX E.P. here is a dirsct link to the picture:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6h6zl9t

i dont know how to do it.

you seem to be good at this stuff..k bye.

also this ouc is really high quality.
 * It's on the album's article. -- Banj e  b oi   21:29, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

More historical references
I have read some of the comments on how much Tila has changed her story. Last I checked any article from any magazine is a valid source. I also believe that there should be more information on her pornographic startup. There seems to be a lot of information on her pop culture crap but very little attention to the fact that she is a failing adult website owner along with her other past appearances. I think this should be included so that the article can show Tila as she is, not what MTV, MySpace, or management company has made her to be. I also believe that it will show the true fact that Tila is a liar and should be considered more of a character and not an actual person.

I admit I do not like her one bit, but at the same time I think that she deserves to be represented as correctly as possible, good and bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vanhofrj (talk • contribs) 11:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I do agree that she started out doing porn, or what was two steps up from it. Then she just morphed into a versatile singer, actor, and glamour model. What else do you want us to put in, though? All the stuff from her first career would definitely violate the NPOV rule. We already mentioned the fact that her website didn't start out the way it's used for now, and she jumped into the racing scene to kick start her career. If you still want to add it though, just follow the rules, find sources, and write some stuff about her "porn" days and dump it in here... ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 Refill/lol 20:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

pronunciation
Someone had her first name as tee-LAH, which seems odd, and for her last, something much closer to the Vietnamese than most Americans can manage. Anyone know? kwami 19:52, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * For awhile, some people couldn't figure out if it was tee-LAH or TIE-lah, but I have always thought it was the former and thus pronounced it that way. Then her videos and TV show came out, and it became evident that it is the former; she herself pronounces it that way. So yes, her first name is pronounced tee-LAH. Her surname is somewhat of a complicated story. The Vietnamese actually pronounce "Nguyen" as one syllable: "Wun" or "Wen". In English, the pronunciation and alphabet are different, so it became Noo-Yin. So I can answer the first name for you, but the surname is a bit tricky. But this is the English Wikipedia, so I'm guessing we should just go with the "Noo-Yin". ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 Refill/lol 20:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's an entire article dedicated to that particular last name, so I based the pronouncation based on what's written there. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 00:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Nguyen is pronounced "Wen" or "Win". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.203.228.49 (talk) 01:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it is not. It begins with the "ng" phoneme (as in the word "ring," followed by the vowel "u" (oo), then "yen," all executed with a rising tone. It takes a little practice but is not very difficult to say it the right way. Badagnani (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I am not an IPA expert.... but it looks like her last name is phonetically spelled "noojin" which is something my girlfriend tried telling me was how it was pronounced. Everywhere else I have looked says it is "hwin" or "uwin" 76.26.90.43 (talk) 13:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Superscript text


 * "Noojin" is absolutely wrong, as are the other pronunciations you've presented. The reason those pronunciations are used is that most North Americans are not willing to devote the 5-10 minutes of careful practice it would take to pronounce the word properly. There are no physical or genetic differences that would prevent a non-Vietnamese from pronouncing this surname properly. I have given clear directions, in a single sentence, just above. Badagnani (talk) 17:01, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The variations in pronunciation of the common name Nguyen also depend on which dialect is used. I believe all the ones listed are correct, depending on dialect. izaakb   ~talk  ~contribs  17:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The above is absolutely wrong. There are two pronunciations in Vietnam: one in the southern dialect and one in the northern dialect, and both are identical to the pronunciation I provided above. The northern pronunciation has a more pronounced rising tone, which ascends into a higher tone of voice, whereas the southern rising tone is less pronounced. "Wen, "When," "Nugen," "Noojen," "Noojin," etc. are not from any dialect of Vietnamese; they are from the "I don't want to take the 5 or 10 minutes to learn the actual pronunciation dialect" of North American English. Badagnani (talk) 17:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

So...is there any news about her "new" relationship with Bobby?
I mean, you would think that the press and paparazzi would have photographed her by now over the last few months dating somebody, anybody. I would also think that such sourced material would have made it into the article. That is, if this show was really real and all. TabascoMan77 (talk) 01:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

-As per MTV's New Years Show she has been dumped. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.32.159.227 (talk) 04:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

How would you know she's been dumped?? They could still be together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.177.1.132 (talk) 06:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

She said on the MTV New Year's bash that Bobby couldn't handle her schedule and recently dumped her. There is a bit of controversy because Bobby posted a bulletin on MySpace yesterday saying he was never given her number after the reunion show and she never called him again. A lot of people are complaining about it on her MySpace comments. She also said that she would be the girl in A Shot at Love 2. AboveDust (talk) 07:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)