Talk:Tim Schafer

Picture
Originally this article had a publicity shot, but its fair use rationale was disputed. (Image:DSC_0714.JPG) So I asked someone to upload a new picture under GNU license. (Image:Timschafer.jpg) However, this picture is old (from 2001) and shows Tim Schafer holding marmite for no reason at all, so if anyone can get a better GNU licensed picture, go for it. Technitai 11:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Surely the caption is supposed to read "Tim Schafer with Marmite" rather than "Marmite with Tim Schafer" Unless Marmite is a figure of greater importance on this page?--86.142.116.107 (talk) 14:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Credits
I have just cut out the games that Tim Schafer did not work on. He never worked on any Star Wars game, nor did he work on any Indiana Jones games and he surely didn't work on Curse of Monkey Island, since he was working on Grim Fandango at the time.

But he did do 'Day of The Tentacle', and 'Full Throttle'

Actually, he did work on the Curse of Monkey Island, just go to and see the Additional Design part. He's also credited on two noteworthy Star Wars games, Jedi Knight and Shadows of the Empire, though I'm not sure if can count, since he's listed as "Never Actively Tried to Sabotage the Project" (The Racoon King) in the second and he's just part of the LucasArts Entertainment Company team (as "Brooding Morale Coordinator") in the first. Finally, in Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, he is listed as "SCUMM Advice Offered By". You can see his profile at --Vertigo200 04:28, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * From the article's standpoint, and so as not to mislead anyone, not mentioning the games where Schafer got a very small part or was put into the credits as a joke is the way to go, IMO. I think there's only sense in mentioning a game if he has been listed as a designer or writer or co-designer or something like that.--Wormsie 13:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I just deleted Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis from his gameography, given that he is only credited as giving SCUMM engine advice. It's just a courtesy mention in the credits. Should Maniac Mansion also be deleted from the gameography, given that his involvement was extremely minor (and mostly technical)? Monkey Island 1 and 2 in the gameography could be justified by the fact that he did a third of their dialog and SCUMM scripting.Technitai 12:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It was pretty typical at Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts for all of us on the adventure games to contribute to each others' projects, and often people working primarily on one game had time to make significant contributions to others. And the credits were often selected for humor value rather than to accurately describe involvement.  Tim was absolutely a major contributor and worked full time on the first two Monkey Island games.  I left LucasArts after co-designing Fate of Atlantis but before much of the SCUMM work was done so I can't speak to that directly, but as someone who was there (and interviewed Tim) I would not assume he didn't contribute meaningfully to any game that was being done during his tenure at LucasArts.Nfalstein 03:42, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's pretty insightful. 84.41.242.223 09:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Is "Gameography" even a real word?
I'm a bit concerned with the word "gameography" being used to describe Tim Schafer's accomplishments. Is this appropriate for an encyclopedia?Theodorel 08:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If movie directors can have a filmography, could game directors have a gameography? They probably could, and a lot of game designer biographies on wikipedia use the word. Whether the term is widespread enough to warrant use here is debatable, but you're making it sound like its use threatens the encyclopedic integrity or something, while it's simply a stylistic issue.Technitai 09:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Another word gaining steam for the meaning here is "ludography," coming from the latin 'ludus' meaning 'game.' While I like it, gameography is probably used more often (and is used at mobygames.com) Jeffool : 209.214.242.119 06:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I apologize if I sounded too harsh, but I just found it a bit odd that this particular word was being used.Theodorel 17:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Norwegian Descent
How is this relevant enough to warrant its inclusion in the first line of the article? Was he born in Norway, or just parents? Because if it's the latter, what's the big deal?


 * I would have to agree that this is irrelevant, and I'm from Norway. Norwegians have a tendency to obsess about these things, which is fine for the coloured press but totally worthless in a wikipedia article. Well, mostly worthless anyway, I guess it's an interesting piece of trivia if one is so inclined. I'm going to go ahead and remove it, feel free to engage in an editwar if you disagree. ;) --TorArne (talk) 16:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Grim fandango screenshot.jpg
Image:Grim fandango screenshot.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

is schafer a german name?
german origin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.160.205 (talk) 03:13, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Schäfer is a very common German surname. 31.17.116.147 (talk) 01:13, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Timothy
Is his birth name "Timothy" as the article says since October 2009 because an IP editor decided to change it (without adding/mentioning a source; the only change from that IP ever) and nobody cared to check any facts, or is his birth name "Tim"? --82.170.113.123 (talk) 21:34, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added a source with this edit. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 23:22, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Reassess
This article seems to be c-class quality to me, so I requested a reassessment. As a new Wikipedian I'd also like to see in what way an article like this should need to be improved to go up a class.
 * Bumped it up to C. The biggest flaw in the article right now is that, especially as it goes on, it becomes just a list of facts, "On date X Tim Schafer did Y. On date Z he did A." Try to make it more prose- look at Jenova Chen for a video game developer example. After that, what the article is missing is details about him outside of what projects he's worked on- not just biography details about his life outside of his work (and before he started working), but also a section on his design philosophy. Again, see Jenova Chen. The idea is to make the article more than just a credits list, the "What"s, and talk about the "How"s and "Why"s. -- Pres N  22:24, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. I'll try to add some of such content to it if I can find the references and I'll see if I can improve the writing. Can't promise anything, though~ Thanks! Maplestrip (talk) 08:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Started working on it, got another reference ( http://generator.acmi.net.au/gallery/media/game-masters-interview-tim-schafer ), but I'm not sure if video references are good. I can't watch it right now anyway. Maplestrip (talk) 09:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Requested changes from Tim Schafer
Hi there - I work for Tim Schafer at Double Fine, and he asked me to make a couple of changes to his wikipedia page to correct things that are incorrect, or misleading. I'm posting here in the interests of being as transparent as possible, although I think only one of them has potential for controversy.

Change 1
First up, there are several changes that involve taking *less* credit for things he is credited for in the Works section. For instance there are a couple of star wars games listed that he believes he made no real contribution to and should not be credited for.

Change 2
Regarding Monkey Island's creation:

"'though it was originally conceived as having a more serious tone; Schafer and Grossman wrote much more humorous placeholder dialog, which persuaded Gilbert to turn it into a comedy.'"

Tim says this is simply not true.

Change 3
"'On March 5, 2015, Schafer hosted the 2015 Game Developer’s Choice Awards; during his speech, he criticized the #NotYourShield tag that had arisen during the Gamergate controversy, referencing the belief that it was largely composed of sockpuppets, and was immediately faced with criticism for a joke that mocked minorities.[25][26]'"

This is a sort of true, but not quite true version of events. There is more to this story than meets the eye. It is true that Tim made a joke about sock puppets at that awards ceremony, and it is true that NotYourShield was the punchline of the joke, however it is not true that the joke mocked minorities.

The Joke in question was told at the peak of the Gamergate. Both Gamergate and Notyourshield are now recognised as elements of an organised hate campaign. It is also now recognised that notyourshield was indeed spread primarily by sockpuppet accounts, which is described on wikipedia as:

"'To respond to widespread criticism of Gamergate as misogynistic, posters on 4chan created a second Twitter hashtag, #NotYourShield, intended to show that Gamergate was not about opposition to feminism or wanting to push women out of gaming. In the 4chan post that may have coined the hashtag, it was framed as a way to 'demand the SJWs stop using you as a shield to deflect genuine criticism'.[22][24][93] Many of the accounts used to tweet the tag seemed to be sockpuppets that had copied their avatars from elsewhere on the internet; the methods used to create it have been compared to #EndFathersDay, a hoax manufactured on 4chan using similar methods.[22][93]'"

As this is now the recognised version of events, i think it is fair to say that the description above is incorrect.

The Facts: 
 * Very early on Tim became an enemy of Gamergate by being a vocal supporter of Anita Sarkesian's Tropes series.
 * Tim made a joke at a streamed award show that made light of a troubling and disturbing hate campaign that was deeply affecting the games development community at that time.
 * The butt of the joke: Gamergate and Notyourshield are hashtags spread largely by sockpuppet accounts.
 * As Wikipedia currently recognises, he nailed the situation spot on.
 * Not liking being the butt of a joke, the gamergate hate campaign then twisted his words to suit their needs and spread further confusion.
 * That worked very effectively, and he became a victim of the campaign.
 * This has had lasting affects, as many still believe that tim hates women and minorities.

The first two changes i will make now myself, this final one requires some finesse and seems too controversial for us to change ourselves. It's time to set the record straight though! Please advise, Thank you!

Thespaff (talk) 23:46, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Conversation on the above

 * The first two changes are completely ok - things that sources get wrong, we can take out.
 * The third one is a bit more touchy, as we need sources to back things up. That said, I have edited that bit with sources that id Schafer as supporting Anita early on (in 2014), that recognize his speech was in line with what the media considered the tag to be (a sockpuppet front), and then the only other recent source I could find that showed that GG still targets Schafer between that and their belief that Broken Age funds were mismanaged. This last point is where I wasn't finding much sourcing otherwise beyond March 2015 to show Schafer still being a target outside of one recent source. (To note: I monitor a few of the GG external forums, just to make sure that there's no brigading threat to WP in the near future. I'm fully aware that Schafer is disliked by them, but we can't use personal knowledge here). If you can find other sources that show that last two points, which are completely fair game to include, then that would help a lot. --M ASEM  (t) 00:39, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the above! As you say this is a touchy thing to edit and so i didn't want to touch it personally. To be honest that last part is less important, I put it in there to illustrate the bigger picture. The main point Tim wanted to be addressed was that he did not get up on a stage to poke fun of women and minorities as was subsequently claimed. I think the current edits that have been made do a good job of this, so thanks!

It would be interesting to try and find sources to explain how this incident and the perceived mismanaged funds incident left him with a reputation in some circles that, at least in my opinion, is pretty unfair. I'm not sure anyone has really written about that angle at any point though, and it's probably better to try and just let that stuff be! Thespaff (talk) 01:23, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If you do happen to find any in reliable sources (and this would include any interviews Schafer has or will do) that mention this, we can include it that way, but I see what you mean about the change to make it look like he wasn't out on stage to mock those groups, that's what GG'ers perceived as such. --M ASEM (t) 02:18, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

I made a few more small changes to credits today, and also to the gamergate incident. It would be great if someone could check those last ones to make sure these edits are fair and above board. Thx!Thespaff (talk) 23:30, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I think they were fine. I fixed up a super-extended parenthetical phrase on the Broken Age stuff, but that's okay.
 * BTW, if you do work at Double Fine, and you do appear to have access to such, any freely licensed photos (or even better, if possible, game screens) would be great to augment not only Tim's article but the Double Fine and its products. I know the game screens are a bit more tricky (that's all contractual), but it should be easy enough to get shots of the office, group staff photos, etc. without overhead. It's not required but since you seem to be an in into that, we might as well milk it :) --M ASEM (t) 00:39, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Oh absolutley, we'd happily freely license some studio photos of the team. Screenshots of games that we wholly own the rights to such as Psychonauts and Broken Age would be easy too. I'll keep checking back here, but if you'd like to reach out to me through email with some things in mind, it might be easier to organise? I'm spaff@doublefine.com <- that'll help verify who i am too! Thespaff (talk) 00:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I or someone else from the VG project will likely get back to you for how to do this (affirming your identity/association, and ability to release images as free licenses). I can tell you ahead of time that for those games you solely have rights to, we'd love cover art (without any console/ESRB-type branding if possible), and a reasonable selection of screenshots (and potentially any videos/animation ? ) that highlight how the game is played, art style and assets. I know I can vouch for on Psychonauts, if that is possible, that images of the Milkman level and the Lungfish level would be great (both are discussed in sources, so they would readily accompany those), while at Broken Age, being an adventure game first and foremost, elements like a representative dialog tree and inventory management would be great not only for that game but for pages discussing adventure game mechanics in general. You can see how when other devs have been able to provide images how we can incorporate them, see Fez (video game), Dustforce, Awesomenauts, and Guacamelee!. I'm sure there's more I can think of, I just wanted to get back to let you know that we definitely would be interested if this can be done, just got to go through all the right hoops to make it, which I'm not 100% clear on yet.  --M ASEM  (t) 17:27, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! I'll wait to hear more :) Thespaff (talk) 23:38, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, ! Sent you an email czar  22:48, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Tim Schafer. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927015217/http://www.mixnmojo.com/features/read.php?article=doublefine2001 to http://www.mixnmojo.com/features/read.php?article=doublefine2001
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927015336/http://www.mixnmojo.com/features/read.php?article=psychonautspreview to http://www.mixnmojo.com/features/read.php?article=psychonautspreview

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:31, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Tim Schafer. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061005063525/http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3149196 to http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3149196

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:47, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Through this support, Double Fine was able to retain several gameplay elements within Psychonauts 2
What does this mean? I don't see anything in the associated link to clarify this statement. Surely Double Fine retained all the elements within Psychonauts 2, because if they hadn't retained them, they wouldn't be... within Psychonauts 2 anymore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:448:C300:6E10:69FA:EC62:AA50:E734 (talk) 08:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Revisions to the Gamergate elements
Greetings!

Full disclosure - I am the director of marketing and communications at Double Fine working with Tim Schafer. He has expressed a desire to update this page a little to feel more truthful. Some of these edits relate to Gamergate, something which was controversial at the time, but since has been categorically proven to be a campaign of "fake news" and harassment. However, given that controversial element i would like to flag the elements we believe need editing for discussion rather than making them myself.

the parts in question:

1

Following the event, Gamergate supporters targeted Schafer with criticism, claiming he had been making a joke that mocked minorities.Gamergate supporters also criticized Schafer claiming he had mishandled the funds of the Broken Age Kickstarter, following Schafer's decision to expand the scope of the game and seek more funding for that larger scope by offering the game's first half on early access.

It is true that supporters of gamergate criticised Tim for the mishandling of finances, but what is not reflected here is that penny of the campaign was spent on making the game Broken Age, along with a significant amount of money from Double Fine's own budget, resulting in a game of a much higher scale and quality. Mishandling of finances implies something dubious took place, but promises were fulfilled and then some.

2

 Since then, these coupled incidents have caused Schafer to continue to be a target of ridicule from some GamerGate supporters.

Can we please call it what it is, and change "continue to be a target of ridicule" to "occasionally remain a target of harassment"

If no one wants to talk about this, i can make those edits, but i'll leave this open to a conversation first.

I'm also going to make a couple of other very minor edits that i do not believe require a conversation, but please hit me up if you believe otherwise.

Thanks! Thespaff (talk) 21:15, 4 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I have gone ahead and made these edits, using references and wording from within wikipedia, and i believe my edits to be true and fair and backed up. The disclosure of my connection to Tim remains here though.
 * One small edit I have made that has no current citation is his involvement with the Fig Board. He no longer serves on the advisory board as of march 2020 but this hasn't been mentioned anywhere publicly before. Thespaff (talk) 21:04, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Gamergate edits
@Loyalty-heart: as was said, COI is not inherently a reason to remove material. Can you explain your position a little more? HansVonStuttgart (talk) 16:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * If someone is editing for their employer ("I work for Tim Schafer at Double Fine") and the subject of the content goes beyond minor corrections and factual points, but becomes loaded, controversial or political, then the employee must not make these edits themselves as it does not constitute neutral content.
 * Instead, the edits can be proposed and then considered by users without COI, as it was done the first time when user Thespaff wanted changes to be made to this page. Loyalty-heart (talk) 17:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Alright, well the edits have now been re-added to the article by two separate editors with no COI. I see no problem with them. HansVonStuttgart (talk) 17:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There has been no discussion or consensus to decide whether the content proposed by a COI source should be added to the article.
 * It is you who proposed forming a consensus in your last edit:
 * HansVonStuttgart [..] let's establish consensus first
 * If you did not genuinely want to establish a consensus, then reverting my edit with a dishonest explanation looks like edit warring. Loyalty-heart (talk) 17:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I think it should be retained because it is properly referenced and notable information. Why do you think it should be removed? HansVonStuttgart (talk) 17:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That's not what COI says. If the material added by a person with COI is related to a contentious topic, but is added in a neutrally-worded manner with clearly independent and reliable sources, and the editor has affirmed their COI in the process of editing, then all it takes are other editors to review and leave alone if the addition is fine, or remove if there are no rob. The edits in question appear to be all neutrally worded and refer to a situation well covered by RSes, so there isn't an issue here. M asem (t) 22:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)