Talk:Time Bandits

Anonymous edit.. is it correct?
I have removed an edit by someone that has contradicted some of the info in the article. I haven't seen the movie so I don't want to erase it permanently. See here for more info. The information I have removed is:

''Horseflesh is not dead, the above information is incorrect; he is actually one of "Evil's" henchmen -you can seem him in the "Fortress of Ultimate Darkness", he's the shortest one in the plastic suit. He is the 7th Dwarf who turned bad, it's just not spelled out in the film.''

Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 22:54, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If I recall (and its been a while) Horseflesh was formerly the leader of the group; and at one point one of the bandits says to Randall, "well if Horseflesh was here" to which Randall replies, "Horseflesh is dead." I don't know if there is special plot significance to the fact that the actor cast to play Horseflesh appears in the Evil One's castle or if Gilliam wanted to do something since his part had been written out.  Only gilliam knows for sure, I guess. Thatcher131 21:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

time bandits the music group
there is no disambiguation for time bandits? they were also a band with a cool song, "I'm specialized in you". came to wiki to find out about them, but i only found this movie.

Hare Krishna In Joke?
An explanation of this line would be nice:

''Hare Krishna viewers: See if you can find Lord Jagannatha's face early in the film. Thanks, no doubt, to George Harrison for that little gem." ''

- Captain Crawdad 20:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Cast
Do we really need the exhaustive, complete cast list? I'm for leaving it as is in the infobox and deleting the "Cast" subsection. As a compromise, I'd suggest adding the actors who played the bandits themselves to the infobox. PacificBoy 21:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Producers
I tried adding in Denis O'Brien and George Harrison as credited producers, but the info-box wouldn't accept them. Maybe the HTML is just set up for a single name?--Shtove 23:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It is, I've put it back to Producer as that's all it will accept. Fortunately it adds "Produced by" to the article covering all eventualities. Malla  nox  01:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Deleted scenes
Can someone with access to the published screenplay check the veracity of that last addition to the deleted scenes section? It was added by an anonymous user on 11 September (long after the rest of that section was created), and I would like to see that double-checked. Thanks. --- RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  18:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Craig Warnock
I removed the following sentence from the opening:


 * Craig Warnock later went on to play keyboards in These Animal Men in the late 1990's, appearing on their final album Accident and Emergency.

This would certainly be appropriate for an article about Craig Warnock (I'm not certain that one exists at this point), and might even be said to be appropriate in this article in a section about the cast, but it is certainly not appropriate in the opening section which should contain only an overview of the film. --- RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  17:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Time bandits.jpg
Image:Time bandits.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Deleted Scenes
Since none of this has ever been sourced or cited, I have removed it and bring it here for discussion:
 * A scene involving two spinsterish spider-women in the Time of Legends. The two old crones have many legs beneath their skirts and use knitting needles to weave webs with which they capture handsome knights (and, very nearly, our heroes).
 * A longer version of Katherine Helmond's song about fondue. The full song is included in the book.
 * The "Forest of Hands" scene in Gilliam's The Brothers Grimm was originally planned for this film. Sketches for it and the text of the original scene are included in the published script book of the film.
 * The characters make reference to a dwarf named "Horseflesh" who has apparently died sometime previously. In a preface to the published screenplay, the writers note that an early draft of the script included a part in the film for the Horseflesh character. However, during the revision process, the writers realized that releasing a film with seven dwarf characters might result in legal trouble, hence the need to kill off Horseflesh prior to the beginning of the story. Despite this, the role of Horseflesh was cast and Marcus Powell is credited with the role in the closing credits. Powell appears very briefly and sans dialogue as one of Evil's minions. Gilliam has said that, in one draft, Horseflesh turned into one of Evil's minions.
 * The dwarfs come upon a pregnant girl, giving birth. While trying to push the baby out she is forced to give them directions to a cave full of "blue jewels". They threaten to send the baby to another dimension if she does not tell them. She noisely pushed the baby out and moans out a sigh of relief.
 * In the DVD interview, Terry Gilliam and Michael Palin make a reference to a scene in which the time bandits travel to the future and go to a bank - but due to their diminutive size are unable to be seen by the cashier over the counter.

Has anyone ever seen a source for any of this? ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 16:04, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As the original version of this section in the article stated, these are in the published version of the screenplay, released back when the film came out. I have a copy and I have a good memory of most of these scenes being mentioned at having been in various drafts of the script before filming began. The only one I don't remember is the girl giving birth scene, though granted it has probably been 15 years since I paged through the book. Unfortunately, it is currently in storage so I don't have it handy to quote page numbers. Sorry, I know 'Yeah, I remember that' is not really wiki standard. :) Swingkid570 (talk) 01:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the response. But, yeah, we need an actual reference from the book.  From what you have said, though, these are not "deleted scenes," per se, so much as unfilmed scenes, yes?  There is something of a difference between the two. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  01:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Morocco?
Why is this article "within the scope of WikiProject Morocco"? The article gives no hint.


 * Apparently the Sean Connery Greek king sequence was filmed in Morocco... AnonMoos (talk) 12:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Ten years later - I just watched this film again, and the end titles say it was "Filmed at Lee International Studios and on location in England, Wales, and Morocco. Dcs002 (talk) 02:09, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Dwarves to dwarfs
Recently 190.18.161.171 edited the text to change dwarves to dwarfs. This is a pointless edit as it's simply replacing one valid spelling for another Montalban (talk) 03:37, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Since Tolkien pretty much invented the "dwarves" form, some might feel that "dwarfs" is more correct. But by now, "dwarves" is often used in mythological or quasi-mythological contexts, while "dwarfs" can seem more like a quasi-derogatory word for real-world short people... AnonMoos (talk) 06:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem however is that the word 'dwarf' in the article links to mythological dwarfs, anyway.Montalban (talk) 16:41, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * In the context of the film, these dwarfs/dwarves really are mythological. There is no indication that they are human or from Earth.  So, I think that link makes sense.  The spelling, though, does seem to be beside the point. ---  RepublicanJacobite   TheFortyFive  17:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

I added the Wiki links for all the 'dwarf' actors and the kid BEFORE that of the other people listed in the film. For the love of God, these people were the MAIN CHARACTERS. You cannot list the other actors before them simply for the fact that they were smaller than the other actors. I can imagine little more insulting than ranking their importance to the movie based on their height. The original poster of the Wiki entry should be ashamed.

It is, further, entirely irrelevant to their billing that Sean Connery is a bigger name or has more chest hair than any three of them put together. The latter fact is immaterial, lest he play a particularly hairy role, such as that of a Sasquatch or other early hominid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.106.17.238 (talk) 01:52, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. In fact, your comments make you sound like a lunatic.  We have policies and guidelines are here that determine how things are done.  I suggest you learn them or get lost.  Talk page comments like yours are not helpful in the least. --- The Old Jacobite The '45  02:33, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Old Jacobite: actually, the unsigned post makes a valid point.  I saw TB in preview release, and the original newspaper ads listed the lead roles (Kevin and the dwarves) as the lead actors; Connery and Duvall and the others were listed lower.  Upon regular release, the names were re-arranged, I suspect to capitalize on the star power of the bigger names.  Now, considering you are referencing Wikipedia policies and guidelines, I'll note that this page's guidelines prohibit such impolite name-calling as "lunatic" so you might want to follow your own advice.Truddick (talk) 14:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't say he was a lunatic, I said ranting on like that makes him "sound like a lunatic". There is a difference between the two and I stand by my comment.  The film poster lists the actors in order, and that is how they are listed in the article. --- The Old Jacobite The '45  15:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

T.B. and Richard Garriott Suggestion
I can't write it in now, but Time Bandits had an important role in the creation of the genre-influencing/best-selling Ultima II computer role-playing game & subsequent Ultimas that should be included in the article. The basic info: Richard Garriott was so fascinated by the film's premise that he and a group of friends saw it over-and-over in order to copy the time map held up at the end of the film and find whether there was any connection between the markings & times/locations. Ultima II subsequently focused on using a map to navigate through the Time Doors in order to visit various eras (including the Time Of Legends), and included a cloth map inspired heavily by the one in the movie; each Ultima from then on involved using a cloth map to travel using what he then renamed 'moon gates.' (Reference: "The Book of Ultima" by Shay Addams, 1991 pgs. 17-21; many other interviews.)   —xyzzy 05:17, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Cast list
The question of the cast list has come up again. This has come up before, but no solid consensus has been reached here on talk, so we need to discuss it. The longstanding norm for the infobox cast list has been to include only the names of the actors whose pictures are shown on the poster. Below those names, in smaller type, appear the names of the actors who played the "Bandits" and Craig Warnock, who played Kevin. An anonymous editor has repeatedly added Warnock's name to the lede and infobox – though, not the names of the "Bandits," which I find puzzling – claiming that he is one of the stars. If the cast list is going to be changed, all those names should appear, not just Warnock. My personal preference is to stick with the de facto consensus. I'd like to hear from other editors on this. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 14:44, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The primary difference between Warnock's role and those of others (and why his name merits mention over others) is that the whole story revolves around the Kevin character played by Warnock, it is his character's imagination being depicted throughout the film. His is the most central role for the entire film. 83.112.131.16 (talk) 14:47, 7 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Scanning images, I see three major posters: this standard marquee poster, the "quad" style and the "quad" style but with actor images  (which for all purposes is the same as the marquee style). Its interesting that the photo-less quad version says the bandits/Kevin actors are "Starring", but that doesn't appear anywhere else. I can recognize they're pushing the named actors which all have bit roles over the actors with primary screen time -- save for David Warner as Evil.  Here's a case I think we need to use a bit of common sense. We have the names that appear on the poster so the list is going to be no more, no less than that - we're not arguing for anything not listed there. But given how the movie is presented and the quad poster, it seems wrong to call Cleese etc as "Starring" - that's the bandits and Kevin. Cleese and the rest are clearly named guest roles that should be highlighted in the lede. It begs the question of David Warner, though, since I would argue he has more than just a guest part. We may need to be creative here on this. --M asem  (t) 14:55, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * These problems always seem to arise on ensemble movies, where you may have a box-office draw (i.e. Bruce Willis in Armageddon) but no clear star. Perhaps we should simply advise to not use the "starring" field on ensemble movies? If it gets to the stage where you have nine names in the starring field I question how useful it is to list them. I am all for "common sense" but common sense should apply in straightforward cases; instead we keep getting situations where we chuck away our guidelines in complicated cases, where disputes are more likely to arise, which is precisely the situation our guidelines should be helping to resolve! Betty Logan (talk) 15:43, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Importantly, the poster's cast line should be used to prevent names not mentioned there to be included in the infobox. That's not the limiting situation here. We basically have two lists - the "big draw" names like Cleese, etc. that are given visual priority on the poster, and the normal "starring" byline in the fine print which we can easily recognize as the principle actors, but not intended to be the draw of the film. I think we can stay consistent through other film articles by using the small-print byline only for the infobox and identifying the starring actors, but using the poster leads as "also starring" in the lede prose but not infobox. That makes logical and consistent sense with other cases. --M asem (t) 16:33, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * In this particular case, I would support leaving the starring field blank and using only the cast section. This eliminates the debate and any temptation on the part of various editors to add actors that they feel are of particular "importance".  A case can be made for any of these names, but, as Betty said above, a starring field that lists all these actors would be ridiculously long and would include almost the entire cast.  We need to avoid any situation in which we are making decisions about who the "real stars" of the movie are. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 17:00, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding Warnock, there is obviously an issue there because [User:TheOldJacobite] has felt a need to repeatedly remove others' edits to give that actor proper note: 2008,2012, 2016, and now 2018. How could an actor that plays such a central role in a film be pseudo-excised from mention in an article? The reasoning cited has been "Not in poster" but obviously that has been shown to be false. 83.112.131.16 (talk) 17:07, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * My reasons are, and have been, as stated above. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 14:54, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, it's been five years since the last entry in this discussion thread. While I note that there's been ample discussion about it, it still seems shameful to me that David Rappaport, Kenny Baker, and Jack Purvis, in particular among the Bandits, should not be given mention in the opening paragraph as "starring" along with more famous actors who had less significant parts. And it really has nothing to do with Wikipedia practices or whose name appears on the promo posters. rowley (talk) 18:04, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Warwick Davis appearance?
Warwick Davis appears in the cast by Italian Wikipedia. So it is integrated to Wikidata. Is there any notation about it? Or will somebody help to delete? --Rodrigo (talk) 22:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Italian Wikipedia is wrong. Surprising, despite the number of... actors with dwarfism that appear in this movie, Warwick was not one of them. --M asem (t) 22:47, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * and I've removed it from Wikidata. --M asem (t) 22:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Introduction has issues
This passage has issues:

Gilliam has referred to Time Bandits as the first in his "Trilogy of Imagination", followed by Brazil (1985) and ending with The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (1988).[4] All are about the "craziness of our awkwardly ordered society and the desire to escape it through whatever means possible."[4] All three films focus on these struggles and attempts to escape them through imagination: Time Bandits through the eyes of a child, Brazil through the eyes of a man in his thirties, and Munchausen through the eyes of an elderly man.[4]

This is one interpretation of the trilogy. It's not coming from the mouth of the director or writer themselves, but an essayist from the criterion collection. The quote is not properly referenced either. It's misleading because it makes people think this passage is the authority on how to interpret the films.

Cast list errors?
The cast list appears to contain several major errors, or at least fascinatingly unsourced assertions. None of the following actors appear on IMDB's "verified complete and correct" cast list, nor can I turn up any evidence on google that they had uncredited cameos (except for some articles on other wikis that have clearly copied this list), nor do the character names given exist in any version of the script that I can find and in fact I can't find any evidence on IMDB or elsewhere that any of these actors have ever played a character of that name in any film at all:


 * Mickey Rooney as Stitch
 * Helen Mirren as Veronica
 * Patrick Stewart as King Luke
 * Liam Neeson as Timmy
 * Chris Sarandon as The Treasure
 * Tracey Ullman as Stella
 * Joanna Lumley as Flora
 * Albert Finney as Boone
 * Christopher Lee as Oswald
 * Enn Reitel as Jean
 * Jack Warden as Richard Luke
 * Frank Converse as Dim

At a minimum, these credits should be sourced. Absent that, they should probably be deleted.

--Dr memory (talk) 02:24, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Postscript: looked through the edit history and realized that all of these came from the same anonymous user who's also for lord knows what reason put Jack Warden erroneously into the cast list of several other movies, thus. Reverted them all out. Mr or Ms or Mx 2601:...:400F if you'd like to justify any of this I'm all ears.

--Dr memory (talk) 02:55, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't help that the movie cast list itself isn't consistent. For instance Sean Connery isn't even listed, and his role is listed as "Greek" warrior, not Agamemnon. At least on the DVD version that I just watched, which is obviously a re-release. Egreena42 (talk) 07:42, 22 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Sean Connery (whose character is hailed as "King Agamemnon" in the film) is the second name listed in the opening titles (after John Cleese). The big name stars are simply listed there without comment. (For previous discussions that I think have been settled(?), there is no reference to them "starring" in the film.) In order (obviously alphabetical), they are: Cleese, Connery, Duvall, Helmond, Holm, Palin, Richardson, Vaughan, and Warner. There is no full cast list given anywhere within the film, only the list of names in the opening titles and the lists of those "starring" and those "also appearing" in the closing titles. Rappaport, Baker, Dixon, Edmunds, Purvis, Ross, and Warnock (in that order) are given starring credit in the closing titles, and only those seven.


 * If Connery is "not listed," as you say, where is he "listed" as "Greek Warrior?" Dcs002 (talk) 03:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)