Talk:Timeline of the Palestine region

Why this article shouldn't be deleted
This article is not unnecessary and/or a duplicative of the existing articles History of Palestine, Time periods in the Palestine region and Timeline of the name Palestine for the following reasons:


 * While the article Time periods in the Palestine region focuses on the time periods in the Palestine region and only gives a few notable events which occurred in each time period, this article actually provides a comprehensive overview of many major historical events that took place in the region of Palestine throughout history.


 * Although we do already have an article which contains a general historical overview of the history of the region of Palestine, the English Wikipedia does allow having both articles which contain chronologies of the major events in the history of cities/countries/geographical regions in addition to articles which contain a general historical overview of the same cities/countries/geographic regions.


 * The article Timeline of the name Palestine doesn't cover the history of the region of Palestine – it focuses solely on notable historical references to the name "Palestine". TheCuriousGnome (talk) 04:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't agree with you, but I'm not going to be a dick about it. I will move the list to a title that makes sense in English, though. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 05:08, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Name

 * This article needs to be renamed Timeline of the Eastern Mediterranean coast since it was known as Palestine, or the equivalent in three languages, during only three very short periods, the last being only 30 years long.
 * I suggest we don't quibble about it because the historical evidence is simply overwhelmingKoakhtzvigad (talk) 14:55, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi K, unless this is a late April Fools' Day joke, please could you provide links to some of the overwhelming evidence you refer to? There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary in the article Timeline of the name Palestine.
 * Palestine is by far the most common name used for the region in WP:RS over the last 2,500 years. Other names were used as shown well in Time periods in the Palestine region, but Palestine is the only name used consistently throughout the last two and a half millenia. Oncenawhile (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Biblical sources only - should be added back where appropriate
With respect to Koakhtzvigad's deletion of the statements "(Biblical sources only)" on certain line items, these should all be added back, and additional similar caveats should be added where appropriate. There has been much discussion of this question on wikipedia but consensus is clear - see e.g. Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_12 or Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources/Archive_29. Oncenawhile (talk) 15:57, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Dating of major events from the 2nd millennium BC and the 1st millennium BC
The article should only include events and dating broadly accepted by historians, and refrain from including events and dating only recognized only in religious literature.

The only way we would be able to achieve this would be by adding reliable sources accepted by historians, to all the events which currently appear in the sections 2nd millennium BC and 1st millennium BC. TheCuriousGnome (talk) 04:02, 1 May 2011 (UTC)


 * If the goal is to show dates in a historically neutral manner, the contemporary BCE/CE system should be used exclusively instead of the religiously-tinged BC/AD system, which is rapidly becoming obsolete.

Contradicted by archaeological evidence
No way am I going to enter into the hornet's nest of editing the actual article, but wish to address any editors interested in maintaining a touch of archaeological reality for the article. I haven't read the The Bible Unearthed article closely, but there is just no way I will be able to read the Bible without a massive 'pinch' of salt after reading the book itself, if ever I get myself to make the effort of reading any more of the Bible than I already have. My point being that any item on this list which is explicitly or implicitly based on Biblical writings has absolutely no place in an article with pretensions to being a record of history. --StephanNaro (talk) 21:33, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Somewhere in Wikipedia, if not here, I consider that there should be a place for a timeline which includes Biblical references (and perhaps there are other non-'scientific' references too) because it is important to present a picture of history which represents the culturally-accepted perceptions within Jewish and Islamic (and perhaps other) traditions. These traditions importantly inform the views held by ordinary people today, including people whose influence affects the outcome of the ongoing conflicts in the area. --Egarobar (talk) 12:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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NPOV issues since 2011
See above and the cleanup tag on the article page itself. Doug Weller talk 07:24, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Shortened footnotes
Does anyone object to the use of shortened footnotes in this article? Im The IP (talk) 11:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 May 2021
Change "succors" to "successors" when referring to Herod Antipas. Drbillellis 20:47, 29 May 2021 (UTC) Drbillellis 20:47, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Tol &#124; Talk &#124; Contribs 00:16, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

"Crusader period" vs "Crusader/Ayyubid period"
The name used everywhere else is "Crusader period"; I have introduced "Crusader/Ayyubid period" to reflect the reality on the ground, but that needs explaining, as it's not being used anywhere else than I/P on enWiki as far as I can tell. Arminden (talk) 10:03, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

"Medieval period" in Palestine: definition needed!
Big question: "medieval period" is a vague term used with different definitions. I have come across, but unfortunately cannot remember where, a very rational sounding comment that "medieval" and "Middle Ages" are terms which make no sense in the Middle East, but only in Europe if anywhere:
 * a) In the Middle East there was no clearcut end of classical antiquity, as there has arguably been the case in Europe, nor anything remotely resembling a Reanaissance, so "middle between what?".
 * b) The socio-economic system in the Middle East was somewhat different from the feudal system, a main characteristic of the European Middle Ages.

I found it impossible to find a source where "medieval period" in the Middle East is clearly defined as the Crusader period, but dozens of archaeology books and papers use the term apparently with this narrow meaning, albeit all failing to offer an explicit definition. It might be that there are different interpretations from author to author, such as overlaps with the Byzantine, Early Muslim, or Mamluk periods, so please, if you find any clear definition anywhere, even better if there are several conflicting ones, they need to be introduced on Wiki, too - here and in many other articles. Thank you, Arminden (talk) 10:06, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

renaming to Timeline of the land of Israel
Palestine is an exonym given to the region by the Roman Empire to suppress the Jewish Bar Kokhba revolt in 135, as such using the name is not the most accurate option. the name comes from the Philistines, who themselves only lived in a small portion of the land, for a comparably short time, and were Greek invaders to the region.

even though many empires have used the name to describe the region, it was only in the 20th century that some of the area's residents started using it. As a result, it only describes the view of the foreign empires, and not the identity of the native population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine

the name Israel is a much more enceinte name, an endonym, and was used by locals as a self-identification (e.g.. unified kingdom of Israel, northern kingdom of Israel, Egyptian Merneptah Stele) and as such fits the region more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

by the way, this is my first time adding a topic, so if I did something incorrectly, I'd like to know, thanks

Amit benda (talk) 21:36, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree, there was no Palestinian region in 3000 BC - It's misleading Hila Livne (talk) 11:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Complete bullshit. We have a Timeline of the name Palestine, and the name was already in use by Herodotus in the 5th century BCE. Land of Israel is barely a figment of the imagination. Dimadick (talk) 14:19, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think we can dispense with both the language and dismissal. The terms Israel, Judah, and variants thereof were in common use by the residents of the land going as far back as the 11th century BCE. Nobody says the Philistines never lived there and nobody, well, nobody reasonable, says a people calling themselves and the land never lived there. Combine that with the following from the very article you cited:
 * "The English term "Palestine" itself is borrowed from Latin Palaestīna, which is, in turn, borrowed from Ancient Greek Παλαιστῑ́νη, Palaistī́nē, used by Herodotus in the 5th century BCE. Per Martin Noth, while the term in Greek likely originated from an Aramaic loanword, its Greek form showed clear derivation from παλαιστής, palaistês, the Greek noun meaning "wrestler/rival/adversary". David Jacobson noted the significance of wrestlers in Greek culture, and further speculated that Palaistinê was meant as both a transliteration of the Greek word for "Philistia" and a direct translation of the Hebrew name "Israel" — as the traditional etymology of which also relates to wrestling, and in line with the Greek penchant for punning transliterations of foreign place names."
 * This is clearly a divisive issue with which intelligent and reasonable individuals struggle, calling the name "Land of Israel" is both not conducive to good discussion and indicative of a disinterest in good-faith dialogue. 109.64.145.103 (talk) 06:50, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "This is clearly a divisive issue with which intelligent and reasonable individuals struggle, calling the name "Land of Israel" is both not conducive to good discussion and indicative of a disinterest in good-faith dialogue." -> "This is clearly a divisive issue with which intelligent and reasonable individuals struggle, calling the name "Land of Israel" a figment of the imagination" is both not conducive to good discussion and indicative of a disinterest in good-faith dialogue. 77.127.87.142 (talk) 19:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Citations from religious texts belong elsewhere
Historical facts proven through evidence should be the only focus for this page 96.19.243.191 (talk) 00:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Changing name to Timeline of Canaan or Southern Levant
Clearly there is strong disagreement between Israel and Palestine, wouldn't a happy medium be to avoid both with either an older term or a less political one? 109.64.145.103 (talk) 08:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)