Talk:Tintin in the Congo

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Untitled
Kalulu was in reality Ndugu. He was Henry Morton Stanly's assistant in the Congo. It reminds me about Coco, Tintin's assistant. II never heard any comment to that effect, but anyone who agree with me, feel free to send your comment — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.54.118.246 (talk) 04:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Section deletion
I thought it would be polite to raise my earlier section deletion here, in case anyone objects. Please feel free to revert and bring here. Personally, I do not feel that the "reference to Stanley" merits more than a sentence at best in an article whose scope is the entire book. It does not seem to me that it is particularly relevant, but could perhaps be incorporated in the summary. I notice it was not included either when the article went through GAR and FAR. As I say, if anyone objects, please revert and bring it here. Brigade Piron (talk) 09:50, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * At first, I'm inclined to agree, Brigade Piron. May I also take this moment to thank you for watching, editing, and improving the Tintin articles; your help is greatly appreciated; and thank-you for your politeness raising this here. Now, you admit that the "reference to Stanley" does merit at least one sentence. This is two sentences; only one more what you would allow. Plus a heading, which perhaps gives it undue focus, which may actually be what you are objecting to? The two sentences are well-cited, are applicable to current events in Belgium at the time, and add one additional element of interest to the article. For this decision, let us bring in Midnightblueowl, whom I respect greatly for her research skill and ownership of all important Tintin source material, and who I believe originally added this section. Prhartcom (talk) 12:30, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Actually, on looking a bit more closely, I believe it was Notthebestusername who added the section. It would be good to get his/her input too. To clarify, I do not object blankly to the inclusion, I just believe it does not merit an entire section (totally undue emphasis) and certainly not one in that position in the article. But I'm equally not sure which other section it best fits in either... Brigade Piron (talk) 12:54, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you checked, yes credit where credit is due and the more input the better. Thanks for clarifying your observation and I do indeed agree. I believe you and I have determined that it is simply the section heading that needs to be removed, does that sound right? The two sentences may remain, but they may be moved anywhere, is that right? Feel free to have a go at it, then. Prhartcom (talk) 15:54, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, Are you referring to the " Tintin in the Congo" section of Tintin in the Congo?
 * Yes - I agree - Stanley deserves just a passing reference, but I am unable to figure out which exact section you are referring to.
 * Regards, Notthebestusername (talk) 03:52, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

No, it has been removed pending re-insertion. The exact text was: {{quote|

Reference to Stanley (Boula Matari)
In the original version, when Tintin treats the husband of one of the village natives by administering quinine, she calls Tintin Boula Matari ("White man very good! ..Big Master!!! Him cure my husband!White master is Boula Matari!!!"). Sir Henry Morton Stanley, who had aided King Leopold in occupying Congo, was called "Boula / Bula Matari" by the natives (meaningbreaker of rocks).

}} And this was situated within the Tintin in the Congo section. Brigade Piron (talk) 10:55, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Brigade Piron, go ahead and have a go restoring it to anywhere in the article. Prhartcom (talk) 11:45, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Done.Brigade Piron (talk) 12:32, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Nice work! Prhartcom (talk) 12:41, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Apologies for coming in late to the conversation - I have just got back from a trip abroad. But it looks like the situation has been resolved in a perfectly suitable and amicable way. Well done guys! Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Useful picture
The Indonesian article currently uses this file in the article which I think would go very nicely here too. But it's currently only hosted on their wiki, despite having a CC license. Does anyone know how to transfer it? Brigade Piron (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, manually, by copying the file to your computer then uploading it to Wikipedia. I'm not convinced this picture is that great though; also this featured article already has a good balance of illustrations. Prhartcom (talk) 13:23, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

TFAR
Today's featured article/requests/Tintin in the Congo, suggested by QAI, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:15, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

What a complete miss!
In case somebody Twinkles me again, I recommend those interested in a more meaningful background read Congo Free State propaganda war, Congo Free State, Belgian Congo, King Leopold's Soliloquy, Edmund Dene Morel, Congo rubber, King Leopold's Ghost, etc. The region has a truly exceptional history in which the most terrible abuses were misrepresented away by a surge of propaganda. The abuses of this region, and the cynical way in which they were covered up, are the poisoned font from which everything from HIV to the Rwanda and Burundi genocides have been drawn. Something like this is I think best viewed within that context. Wnt (talk) 21:28, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and he's already at it again. I'm reverted, after providing what he asked, because he's "discussing at my talk page". Discussing as in having left a canned Twinkle turd while not even bothering to notice I did what he asked. Sigh. Here's the truth; at best it remains an unread footnote:

The colonization of the Congo under the corporate ownership of the Congo Free State was accompanied by exceptional brutality as the residents were forced to attempt to meet quotas of Congo rubber, or have their hands cut off and delivered as evidence of their execution. Despite reports of the atrocities from missionaries such as William Henry Sheppard as early as the 1880s, these conditions were largely ignored due in large part to a Congo Free State propaganda war in which the situation was effectively misrepresented. The journalism of Edmund Dene Morel and the 1899 Joseph Conrad novel Heart of Darkness helped to launch the campaign to make Congo a colony of Belgium rather than than the personal possession of its king, resulting in the 1908 formation of the Belgian Congo. The administration of the Belgian Congo under colonial rule was collectively called bula matari, "breaker of rocks", after the tradition of Henry Morton Stanley, who used dynamite to first blast a road into the inaccessible upland regions. This administration reflected a trinité coloniale ("colonial trinity") of state, missionary and private company interests.


 * , as I have already stated on your Talk page, Wikipedia is not a soapbox or a place to tell the world about your noble cause. The article you are disruptively editing is a classic comic book; it is not the place to inform readers about former atrocities of the Congo. As well, your edits have conflicted with our verifiability policies and appear to be based on your original research. Keep in mind that this is a Featured Article that was reviewed by many different reviewers. Feel free to contact me if I can answer any questions. Prhartcom (talk) 21:36, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If this article isn't a soapbox then why do you go on and on about the horrors of showing somebody on safari? That has practically nothing to do with the period.  You don't even explain what a "breaker of rocks" actually is, as explained in Belgian Congo.  This thing is a complete disgrace and you stand there and tell me it's "disruptive editing" to mention the previous propaganda war, the ongoing private interests in the Congo? Wnt (talk) 21:40, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note there was no "original research" involved - the Wikilinks directly provide references for each thing I said, and my intention all along was to transfer them as I did in the second edit. Wnt (talk) 21:42, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Wnt, I understand your concerns regarding the European colonisation of Africa and the continuing imperialist intervention and subjugation of that continent. However, Prhartcom is right; this article isn't a place to get on a soapbox. You might want to ensure that everyone reading this page is aware of the Belgian imperialist atrocities in Central Africa. From a moral standpoint, that's understandable. However, posting information on the subject of the Belgian Congo that reliable sources don't directly tie in to Tintin in the Congo is against Wikipedia policy. That's just the way it is, and we all have to abide by it. Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * nobody wants to downplay any of this stuff—if you can find RSes that discuss these things in the context of the book, that'd be great; otherwise it's WP:OR and disallowed. Most likely you'll find such discussion in French sources if they exist.  This sort of thing is exactly the kind of thing you can't do in any Wikipedia article—obviously it's sourced, and nobody's doubting it's veracity, but it's outside the context of the book. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 23:46, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Precisely. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:52, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It should further be added that the style of the prose was not entirely appropriate because it sought to emphasise the brutality of the Belgian imperial administration. Emphasising this one element over others would be a contravention of Wikipedia's neutral point of view (NPOV) policy. Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:57, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that any discussion of the colonization of the Congo needs to be in the context of the book since this article is about a book that takes place in the Congo, not about the Congo itself or European colonization. Sone examples of context would be, the author of the book discussed or answered questions about the lack of coverage of Europen colonisation, several book critics or historians criticized the way the book depicted of the Congo, or if there was a significant boycott of the book due to the way it handled the Congo etc. In those hyperthetical scenarios discussing the history of the Congo would be relevant to the book.--67.68.161.146 (talk) 01:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This? If you want to pontificate about colonial rule in the Congo Wnt, please actually do some reading. The abusive regime you talk about was not the Belgian colonial regime under which this book was written. Belgian colonial rule in the Congo only began in 1908 with annexation of what had been a private colony (which, incidentally, involved rather more Americans, Swedes, British etc. than it did Belgians). I'm certainly not saying that the 1930s Congo was a 'nice place' by any means, but I don't think anyone is saying it is. Writing the lengthy text you seem to want would be like having a huge description of WWII for The Tin Drum - just unnecessary. —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:06, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the guidance you should look at is: WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS... —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:09, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I'm partially siding with Wnt here. Even the most ardent Hergé fan will admit that the pre-Lotus books are ideological hatchet jobs (especially in the case of Soviets). Sceptre (talk) 20:13, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Read the article. Hergé naivety is adequately covered. No, no one calls the book a "hatchet job". Prhartcom (talk) 20:18, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Both this and the Soviets article touch on what you're talking about. That's not what Wnt is trying to add. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:44, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I concur with Curly; these articles already make clear that both Congo and Soviets were ideologically-driven propaganda designed to encourage a conservative Catholic Belgian view of the world replete with anti-socialist and colonialist attitudes. However, what Wrt is trying to add is (in effect) a list of (what now would be considered) human rights abuses conducted in the Congo by European colonialists. The two things are very different. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:20, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Swedish Tintin-gate
I'd just like to stress that the Swedish debate surrounding Tintin in the Congo was a really big thing and tied into several other incidents relating to stereotypical images of black Africans. The Tintin-gate debate lasted several weeks and involved journalists, academics, politicians, you name it. It was extremely high-pitched at times.

Great article, btw. A well-deserved TFA.

Peter Isotalo 20:41, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Quick question
Whoever wrote this article did a fantastic job! It reads very well. However, there's one sentence that doesn't seem quite right to me - "In his psychoanalytical study of the series, Jean-Marie Apostolidès highlighted that in the Congolese adventure, Tintin represented progress and the Belgian state was a model for the natives to imitate." Should this say that the Belgian state was portrayed as a model for the natives to imitate? --Jpcase (talk) 23:53, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that would be an improvement; feel free to make it, Jpcase. To help your understanding, Apostolidès is showcasing psychoanalysis itself and it just using Tintin as its vehicle; it's all just an exercise for this author. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 04:41, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

More Historical Context
I think it might be valuable to include more historical context to the main article regarding the politics of the Belgian Congo. I know this has been discussed briefly above in terms of Leopold's Congo Free State.

I think that, in particular, short sections about -Trinité Coloniale -- Govt. Interests and better understanding of Missionary's role in the narrative. -Mention of Bula Matari -- Named after Henry Morton Stanley, though mentioned as a term of reference towards Tintin a number of times -Historical background regarding the publishing of Tintin within Le Petit Vingtieme, and more broadly within Le Vingtieme Siècle. This might be worth mentioning due to the paper's well-documented conservative leanings. Might be interesting to explore that perspective's influence on the plot!

I believe some additional context might be valuable to a reader. Does this sound like something that might add some value to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexjnichols (talk • contribs) 23:31, 13 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Questions regarding the addition of further historical context were previously discussed in the above section titled "What a complete miss!". The general response was that we would not be able to add additional information that is not covered in the reliable sources devoted to Tintin in the Congo. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Adding Recording for Spoken Articles
Hello all,

I will be adding a recording of this article for the Wikipedia Spoken Articles project. It will be uploaded soon.

Regards, Nelson (jarabe tapatio) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarabe tapatio (talk • contribs) 16:59, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

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