Talk:Tiree

Tiree Wind Farm
Any plans to include a detailed section for the proposed wind farm off of Tiree? AyrshireNeil (talk) 22:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Tyree
I've heard on a number of occasions that the name of the island was previously spelt Tyree; one story I have heard is that the name was changed for postcode reasons, but this may purely anecdotal. I've made a brief search, and this site mentions a change, but doesn't provide a date for it. I also found a post regarding it, which seems to indicate that this spelling used to be commonplace and could be confirmed by historical records, though obviously the post itself can't be cited. I've not got a strong interest in the topic, but I was wondering if this might be an appropriate thing to add to the article if it can be properly sourced. --Poppy Appletree (talk) 19:52, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Alternative spellings are commonplace prior to the 20th century but I have never heard this story about postcodes before. I have to say it seems unlikley to me. Its 16th century spelling included 'Thiridh'. Ben  Mac  Dui  07:54, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

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Admonan
Admonan says that Finchan was very closely attached "in a carnal way" to Áed Dub mac Suibni. So what's the problem? Why are you removing this material? Contaldo80 (talk) 07:48, 16 August 2017 (UTC)


 * As noted on your talk: In regards to a number of articles, but especially Áed Dub mac Suibni, you need to stop trying to promote the revisionist agenda that these people were somehow "LGBT". All you have provided as proof is a polemic account of one of his opponents Adomnán of Iona in his Life of Saint Columba, where he is attacking the King and the rival religious institution he was connected to at Tiree, by claiming he is a "bloody murderer" and attempting to cast him as immoral. It is pure synthesis to start adding LGBT categories to such articles. Any claims made by Adomnán (who was born decades after Aodh's death) need to be contained within quotation marks, not presented as objective fact. Claíomh Solais (talk) 08:57, 16 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Futhermore, its additional to this page is WP:FRINGE, a polemical rumour of a homosexual relationship once upon a time may be of personal interest to you, but it is probably not relevant enough to mention on an article about an island itself. Claíomh Solais (talk) 08:57, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You need to stop your personal attacks. There is no revisionist agenda being promoted. Either support your insinuation with evidence or back down. The sources is simply Adomnan. If you don't think Adomnan is correct then find a source to back up your argument. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:17, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * There's absolutely no hint of a personal attack there. Address the content you wish to introduce to the article by supplying alternative sources. This advice would apply even if the editor were making personal attacks, which he/she is not. Edaham (talk) 09:23, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Claíomh Solais has written "You need to stop trying to promote the revisionist agenda". This is a personal attack. In any case I've now provided a number of additional sources to link Findchan to Tiree. It's not clear to me what else is needed - I don't wish to introduce new content to the article. And I also fear that you've intervened here without really understand the background to this issue. The article already had material referring to a homosexual relationship involving Aed. I simply aligned the material more closely with Admonan (as the primary source), changed the explicit reference to "homosexuality" with Adomnan's wording around a "carnal" relationship and clarified that the abbot was a man called Findchan (according to Adomnan). Contaldo80 (talk) 09:33, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * "stop trying to promote the revisionist agenda" is not a personal attack, it is a dispute. This comment by you is a personal attack. I arrived at this page via the administrator's talk page on which you complained. I You correctly assessed that I don't understand your point. Would you like to explain on this talk page, why you think the content belongs here on an article about an island? I've read the history section and think it could use some revision as it reads like a bit of a narrative or holiday brochure. I don't think it needs editing to the extent that you're proposing. Edaham (talk) 10:59, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think I need to explain anywhere why I think the content about Findchan and Aed belongs on the article about the island. Maybe it does sound like a holiday brochure - who knows. I don't have a view either way. My edits related purely to the material that was there originally - it was imprecise and I improved it. Whether the whole lot stays or goes is of little interest to me - I haven't been making a case either way. Are you saying that the edits I made to improve the text aren't needed and that we should revert to the earlier less precise material? If so then perhaps you'd like to explain why you think that material was more correct.Contaldo80 (talk) 11:17, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If you're asking me to go through and make a proposal I can read the sources and try to rewrite that section, sure. To aid me in doing so it would be cool if you could make me a list of what you think are relevant sources. In the history, myths and folk tales about the island would probably take second place to geographical, economical and political history if I were to rewrite it. I'm not completely against some historical tales being told in moderation though. They make an article fun to read if dealt with carefully and are not so lengthy as to fill the article with cruft. Edaham (talk) 11:44, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. To be clear I'm not asking you to do anything in terms of re-writes; it's up to you. I am not able, I'm afraid, to flag any relevant sources or endorse a particular approach. Why not ask Claíomh Solais to do some of the work - seeing as he clearly has strong feelings about what should or should not be covered in an article about an island.Contaldo80 (talk) 11:53, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't mind getting involved. I get blown from page to page while navigating Wikipedia, and recently I've been stuck editing some volatile contentious pages. I've got some Scottish ancestry and learning about and editing an article on a small Island seems like a nice change. It's vaguely ironic that contention seems to have crept in here though. Edaham (talk) 06:08, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Sounds good - ok thanks! Yes, I find it odd that contention has crept in here as well. But if you track the pages you'll see it's a result of Claíomh Solais tracking what pages I've edited and then going in and amending material that seems to give too positive a view of homosexuality (in their opinion). Quite odd indeed - but wikipedia is made up of all sorts I guess. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:05, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Firstly Contaldo80 you should adhere to WP:BRD and await consensus for your challenged edits otherwise it is you being uncivil. Inded your false accusations and insinuations about Claoimh are very bad faith. You have not sought or got consensus. Your additions veer widely off-topic going into more detail than is needed, detail that can be stated at more relevant articles. It is also a highly fringe view based on a single highly biased primary source that is being distorted and not put into proper context. If you feel the information must go in then we must also state Adomnan's clear bias and why and make the whole thing even more off-topic. Indeed the whole large paragraph needs reworked to more relevant information and maybe actually properly sourced. However most important of all... get consensus first instead of edit warring and making accusations. Mabuska (talk) 23:07, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You're actually not making any sense and actually starting to be a little disruptive. There has been no edit-warring, and don't approach this by throwing threats around. By all means make suggestions on how to re-work the section. However, be clear that Adomnan is a primary source for historical events on Tiree during the medieval period. It is a fact that he mentions Findchan being the lover of Aed. There is nothing (at the moment) in terms of sources to show that Adomnan is wrong or biased. These are strong claims you make. Trying to suggest that there is some sort of problem with using Adomnan as a reference shows a profound lack of understanding in how to deal with historical sources. But this isn't even the issue! I don't like that you're suggesting I've introduced new contested material into the article - I, in fact, improved it. Originally the article stated: "Adomnan wrote that an ordination to the priesthood of a sinful man named Áed Dub had taken place. Columba prophesied that this man would leave the priesthood and return to his sinful life, only to be killed violently, and that the abbot of the monastery on Tiree, who had a homosexual love for Áed and who had placed his hand on the head of Áed during the ordination, would have his hand rot away, and all these things supposedly happened as Columba prophesied." I altered this to say: "In another story, Adomnan claimed there to be a monastery on the island of Tiree that was called Artchain. The monastery had been founded by a priest called Findchan, who was very closely attached "in a carnal way" to Áed Dub mac Suibni. Columba took issue at Aed Dub's ordination because he had previously killed a number of men, and prophesied that Aed Dub would ultimately leave the priesthood and return to his sinful life as a murderer, only to be killed violently himself. Findchan (who had placed his hand on the head of Áed during the ordination and thus condoned it), would also see his hand rot away." So can you explain specifically what aspect of this is original edit is contested? Until you do then there is no reason to alter my original edit. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:09, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

History section
This section begins by leaping into a story telling section with no dates or historical milestones such as information about early settlers or political shifts etc. I'm not a historian but I can see that there's a gap at the beginning in which some basic historical info needs to be added. Perhaps before looking at the sources, we could find a good template from which to work. What historical sections on Wikipedia articles on similar geographical locations would be great examples to follow? Suggestions below.Edaham (talk) 06:21, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Can't think of anything obvious. Essentially I'd be inclined to start with a couple of sentences on prehistory. Then I suspect that Admonan is the best source for the medieval period (I'd be surprised if you find much else). But I'd be minded to strip back a lot of the hagiography around Columba and keep to the facts eg "Adomnan in his Life of Columba written in the c.6th century reports that there was a monastery on Tiree etc etc". Contaldo80 (talk) 08:07, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Origin of the the Name
The MS.1467 and MacFirbis both reference that "This Airbertach had twelve townships [aka minor nobility status] inhabiting the Norwegian territory, viz. Greagraid [ancient population names] of the Champions, commonly called Mull and Tiraoda and Cruibhinis or Craobhinis or Island of Bushes."

In Irish: "Airbeartaigh reamraieth a se an tairbertach sin do aitreabh da threibh deg i Fionnlochlannach .i. Greagraidhe na ngaisgeathach das comainim Muile agus Tir no Tire aodha agus Cruibhinis, no Craobhinis"

Hence the Tiree means land of Aedh. Who this Aed is a question, however Áed Dub mac Suibni of the Dál nAraidi might be a posibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.1.235.114 (talk) 21:40, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

missing history
It is strange that the history section of this article makes no mention of the dramatic rise in population from the end of the 18th century to the time of the Highland Potato Famine. Nor is there any mention of the kelp trade that supported this dramatic increase in people. The story of the large numbers who emigrated before, during and after the famine has also been left out. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2018 (UTC)