Talk:Tirupati/Archive 1

From Tirupati page

 * Is the word "queque" as used in this article rightly used? Should it not be "queue" ?

--Profvk 01:38, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Someday, I shall make some minor changes in the style and use of words to make it more comprehensible for a wider circle of readers. --Bhadani 13:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Merger with Tirumala
Tirupati and Tirumala are so hyphenated we cannot discuss or write about one without significantly overlapping with the other. If you realise much of the content in this article is about Tirumala temple. The places are Commanly hyphenated as "Tirumala - Tirupati". We can have a common article and then redirect both Tirupati and Tirumala to it. If in future much content is developed for Tirupati city. Then we can have "Tirupati city" article focussing on major city apect of it. --Vyzasatya 10:46, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Removed the following sentence which was added in version 22:03, 25 July 2006:

"This is the 2nd most Busiest and Rich Religious Center in the world after Vatican (It was suppose to beat vatican soon). Every year about 1.2 million people visit this temple from with in India and world but moslty South India."

Reason: numerous grammatical, spelling and usage errors, and mickey-mouse English. Too many errors to fix; if the underlying content is accurate, please rewrite it and add it back in again--I have nothing against the factual content. (I'm not sure how you're all getting your user ids in here, but if someone can point me to a page which explains it, I'll do so; not trying to hide, here.)

Merged article
Though I pasted stuff from both articles. Lot of redundancy still remain. should be cleaned up. The article is in imbalance with respect to covering diff topics. Any ideas to improve?? --Vyzasatya 19:24, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Older than the Earth
Can someone please check the validity of "Tirumala also has a naturally formed rock arch which at about 1500 million years old,"

1500 million years?


 * I cannot verify the validity of the 1500 million year old rock arch, but 1500 million years is not older than the earth. The age of earth is around 4.5 billion years or 4500 million years.

LazyTiger 08:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be valid. Please refer to http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/life/2004/09/24/stories/2004092400120200.htm Sumanthk 11:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The rocks are "certified" as being 1500 million years old, but who did that? The same people who say that the main idol in the temple was a transformation of the "Lord Srinivasa" into a stone. And the hindu newspaper article says "believed to be" rather than stating their source. How trust worthy is it? Sasank 07:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I just visited the arch at tirumala three days ago. The explanatory sign that is posted there does claim that the arch is 1500 million years old. It also gives a figure of 2500 million years for something else - the age of the rock the arch consists of, if I recall correctly. Where this information came from, I can't say, but I was under the impression that the site itself was not managed by the governing body of the temple, but by the Indian forest service, which, judging from a number of roadside signs I saw posted, manages much of the land in the hills surrounding Tirupati.

Nothing unusual about 1.5 Billion years for a rock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_rock

Christian conversion controversy
This sections seems to be a total POV. It needs a lot of cleanup /fact verification. Sumanth 12:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, I can't believe how articles can be POV'd like this and still get away with it. rohith 15:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I have done a lot of research regarding the christian controversy and I think there is truth in it to some extent. The current chief minister of the state of Andhra Pradesh, Rajasekhara Reddy is a staunch christian and owes his loyalty to Catholic born-raised Sonia Maino-Gandhi. It has been widely reported and accepted that under his directions, vast funds of the Temple - whoch are donated by devotees are being routed to Christian missionaries for conversion activities. Under his direction, the Vice Chancellor of the 'Sri padmavati Women's University', was appointed. She is also Christian - Prof.veena Noble Dass. Check http://www.padmavatiwomen-univ.org/ It has been alleged that once she took charge, she got the pictures of Lord Balaji & Godess Padmavati removed from the University campus. There is also a disputable allegation that she has ordered the girls not to wear "bindhi's". It had also been widely reported that on more than one occasion, Christian missionaries were found distributing pamphlets in the buses used by pilgrims to get to Tirumala from Tirupati and also in Tirumala. The concerned person(s) was arrested. I researched a lot about this sometime back and don't have links of all the allegations. I will try to get all these links for news reports and update this article.

Here are some of the links: (Some are blog articles but still give important information with names and sources. A couple of them are from reputed newspapers such as 'The Hindu')
 * http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/16/stories/2006071601850400.htm (read end of article)
 * http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?id=1149180987&type=NEWS
 * http://www.hvk.org/articles/0706/28.html
 * http://conversionagenda.blogspot.com/2006/06/christian-evangelism-in-thirumala.html
 * http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=423&It%20emid=90
 * http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/save-temples/tirupati/
 * http://www.haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?PageID=1584&SKIN=B
 * http://indianangle.com/blog/2005/12/holy_city_of_tirumala_desecrat.html
 * http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/17/stories/2006071707600600.htm
 * http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=141&page=34
 * http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2005/07/tirumala-lands-to-church-intelligence.html

129.188.69.161 15:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)Ashwin


 * Hi, i am sure we can look into the data provided by you but the correct article for the christian conversion issue is Tirumala Venkateswara Temple and not Tirumala-Tirupati. The conversion controversy related to the temple and thus we can look at it. Also, looking at the site names (i haven't had the time to read all the data inside), i am not sure if all of these will be acceptable. The data from The Hindu will be acceptable but data from blog sites will not be. remember, this site reflects encyclopedia content and not popular opinions. Also, since the topic is controversial, i would prefer if you register as a wikipedia user for further contributions. Kalyan 05:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Weasel Words

 * In the section "History of the Shrine" there are weasel words -

....and is said to be older .....

While some scholars accept the antiquity of the shrine .......

....namely Nagarjunakonda and Amravati, thus scholars suggest ......

......the identity of the deity was still disputed until ...........

LazyTiger 08:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed it because what is written is what most people agree, it is. Beacuse historically all kinds of doubts can be raised but by 5th AD it was a Hindu shrine although Ramanuja had to reconfirm it in the 12th AD. Read about the subject before tagging well written articles. Kongan 21:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * And I am adding the tag again because you need to read wikipedia weasel words policy. If you want it to be removed, you need to remove weasel words. Mention sources instead of using some etc.

LazyTiger 05:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Please list the weasel words instead of leaving us to guess what you are complaining about. Anthony Appleyard 22:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The NDTV report which said Tirupati is the most visited place of worship in the world is disputed. I was searching through forbes. Tirupati is not mentioned. And NDTV report didnt mention any source. It only says it's official. But doesnt elnighten about the source from which it is coming Please verify (Niketsundaram1977 (talk) 07:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC))

Rename to Tirumala - Tirupati
I would like to propose the renaming of this article to Tirumala - Tirupati for the very simple reason that it is impossible to deal with each separately. The hill top temple town of Tirumala is run from Tirupati at the foot of the hill while Tirupati in turn runs off the finances from Tirumala. They are intrinsically dependant on each other for existence. I have lived in Tirupati or over 10 years and see no sense in talking about both of them differently. The Tirumala temple deserves to be an article by itself and is so. I look forward to hearing your opinions on this issue. If no opinions are forthcoming, I shall proceed with the name change on the 1st of October. Manoj Prajwal (talk) 16:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Origin of word ThiruPati
ThiruPati or ThiruVati should be the name of the place, Patti the common name refers to Place in Tamil and the origin of this word is Ati(Adi) meaning steps or on Foot steps also in Pali the word Pati refers to who is on Foot. This place has ancient Buddhist connections and Buddhist footprint engraved in most places in and around the hills here. Even the temple has a controversy of originally a Buddhist and Tamil Buddhist work Manimekalai mention this place as Thiruvengadam which again means Pure Footsteps in Tamil —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malarmisai (talk • contribs) 03:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Population Figure
I would seriously like to know where you found the population figure used in the article. This is about 5 times higher than the figures I have seen anywhere else. The idea that Tirupati is the 4th largest city in the country is a complete joke. Are we honestly to believe that the city surpasses Hyderabad in rank? Hyderabad is only ranked 6th. Tirupati isn't even the fourth largest city in Andhra Pradesh. I doubt it will even be the fourth largest in an Andhra State when Telangana breaks away. --King ravana (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
i think tirupati might be tamil word itself because ramanujacharya was tamil and he was the one who started the settlement of shri vaishnavites around the govindarajaswamy temple.The temple was the center of township then through centuries ,the city expanded and came into its present form.Also in Tamil,thiru does not mean sri but is an equivalent of "mr."but there seems to be a confusion on what is its contextual meaning here,any tamil should be able to clarify it. "padi" means stair.but in tamil both for tha and dha,there is a single letter.because of this when it was transliterated into telugu ,the local language and other languages ,it came into its present form. see the following links. same with tirumala too as ramanujacharya was the one who came there and regularised the pujas according to aagama saastras.he was the one who named tirumala too.if you could notice,when you go into the temple on the hill,there is a kulasekhara padi marking an entrance,named after a saint i suppose.thank you and let me know if there are any mistakes.Mheashkkoram (talk) 12:54, 4 November 2013 (UTC)



The word Tirupathi is a combination of two words Tiru+pathi which says, Tiru means Sree in Tamil and Pathi means husband in Sanskrit language, combined Sree Pathi (Husband of Lakshmi, i.e. Lord vishnu).

Tiru + pathi is a tamil word. Please look at examples like Tirutani, Tiruvanmiyur, Tiruvanathapuram and several other examples in Tamil nadu. Pathi means a place (of worship). Please lookup wikipedia on pathi. Wikisvc (talk) 18:01, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Sree is not a Tamil word. Tiru/Thiru is a Tamil word. Tiru/Thiru means respectable. So the total meaning is wrong. we have to correct it, otherwise we pass wrong information.--Kurumban (talk) 03:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


 * There are other meanings to Thiru like Wander. So Thirupathi also mean Wanderer. In otherwords one who is everywhere and going every where.ie god. Trying to interpret according to ones whim is not correct and should be withheld because it opens a pandora's box. 27.61.37.178 (talk) 03:39, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

From Tirumala page
Why people are relating tirupati/tirumala to tamil. pati is not tamil word,mala - hill in telugu also. There are so many languages in india. tiru may mean different in different languages.We have many places without meaning. Nallamala (Nallamala forest)may mean different in tamil but we have some other meaning in Telugu. Tirupati -- "ti rupai ti". -- Rohini Kumar .T —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohinikumart (talk • contribs) 18:38, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Other than that thiru can also come this way:

shri -> chri -> chiru -> thiru

Tiru + pathi is a tamil word. Please look at examples like Tirutani, Tiruvanmiyur, Tiruvanathapuram and several other examples in Tamil nadu. Pathi means a place (of worship). Please lookup wikipedia on pathi. Wikisvc (talk) 18:02, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

This article really needs some expansion Originally Tirumala belonged to the Telugu land. Conquered by a tamil king and renamed the place that is why the name has been changed to tirumala to remove Tamil influence.

It was initially constructed and maintained by Tamils. It was during Vjayanagara kingdom that Telugu came into use. In 50 years from now most of us will be using English. That does not mean English is our lineage. It just means they were the latest to conquer. Wikisvc (talk) 18:09, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

The Lord is called Venkatavan. But later to remove Tamil influence He was called Venkateshwara. He is not Eashwara as the name eashwar often refers to Lord Siva and not Lord Visnu. It is apt that the world's richest temple is named after the worlds classical language, TAMIL. Tiru is actually Thiru meaning sacred in Tamil and Mala is malai or mountain in Tamil.
 * If someone tries to assert one way then other meanings erupts and defies explaination. So one should be carefull while quoting.27.61.37.178 (talk) 03:29, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It is really befitting that the richest temple is named after the richest classical language of India (TAMIL)(What do you mean by richest classical language? when no saints have written any classical songs in tamil, Saints like Tyagaraja, Syama Sastri and Muthuswami Dikshitar have written songs in telugu and sankrit) ==

Classical does not always mean carnatic songs. Classical means ancient old language. Even now most of the rituals done at Tirupathi uses Tamil. The steps inside the temple are called "Kulasekara padi" named after Kulasegara Azwar. We can go on and on about the use of Tamil in prayers inside the temple. I would suggest people getting offended because of Tamil references to go to a knowledgeable person and check the facts. Language should not be an issue here. We should be recording facts. Wikisvc (talk) 18:09, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

The section on Tonsure leaves out some vital information, imho. I'm no authority on this temple, having visited it only once, but I kept hearing the same story about it while there and later, from numerous people whom I asked, or who just happened to comment on it.

The tonsure is not done solely "as a symbol of devotion to God". It's done specifically as fulfillment of a promise. If you make a wish while at Tirumala, presumably to or invoking the assistance of Lord Venkateswara, and then your wish comes true, you are duty-bound to come back to Tirumala and shave your head as a symbol of your gratitude.

I didn't look very hard for corroboration of this, but just to make sure I wasn't completely nuts I did find one site: http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2808/context/cover/.

Secondly, the dispostion of the hair: yes, lots, probably nearly all of it is exported. But I heard (and have not verified) that you can recover your own hair, and aookkrrange to have it made into a wig for yourself until your hair grows back. I think this was more complicated than just getting an already-made wig, so if I recall more people opt for the latter (of those who go for a wig on-site at all, which is a small minority).

Thirdly, a quibble about the use of the term 'tonsure' to mean shaving the head. While some dictionaries admit the meaning of "shaved bald" for this term, it is usually secondary, the primary meaning being the "Friar Tuck" haircut with a bald spot at the top and a bowl-like fringe of hair all around, and includes the sense of it being a ritualistic cut prior to becoming a monk. Other dictionaries(e.g. Columbia, Merriam-Webster, also Wikipedia) admit only the second meaning. In fact, I had never heard it use with the prior meaning. If this is, in fact, the term used at Tirumala itself, then I'd keep it, but add some additional explanation to how it's being used. If it isn't specifically used at the temple, then I'd remove the word as too prone to misinterpretation, and replace it with something else.

Headline text
==

Hi to all ,

It is not good to discuss about TIRUPATHI AND TIRUMALA

About he belongs to Telugu ,Tamil or Kannada

Please stop this.

mraghunadhareddy@rediffmail.com

Merger with Tirupati
Tirupati and Tirumala are so hyphenated we cannot discuss or write about one without significantly overlapping with the other. Commanly hyphenated as "Tirumala - Tirupati". We can have a common article and then redirect both Tirupati and Tirumala to it. If in future much content is developed for Tirupati city. Then we can have "Tirupati city" article focussing on major city apect of it. --Vyzasatya 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

DUde chill thats okay actually people know this plaace as tirupati more than tirumala and while searching they will search for tirupati rather than tirumala because of this so... u know there r loads of important things u could rather do for our religion rather disscussing on this silly thing itsborin@hotmail.com

Requested move 12 February 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Number   5  7  16:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

– A major Hindu pilgrimage town. Britannica points to the city. The Tehsil (mandals) have their headquarters at Tirupati. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:06, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Tirupati, Andhra Pradesh → Tirupati
 * Tirupati → Tirupati (disambiguation)
 * Support--Mrutyunjaya Kar (talk) 03:46, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - seems to be the primary topic &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 14:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

User:Number 57, can you please move this talk to Talk:Tirupati too. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 18:35, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. Sorry, I didn't spot that it didn't move (would be good if there was some kind of notification for admins when this happened – maybe I'll suggest it). Number   5  7  18:40, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Biased towards Tamil
Hi, Can anyone say is this page related to Tirupati or Tamil Language. I believe this has been misleadingly edited by Magentic Manifestations on 16:53, 20 March 2015, who removed some of the valid content and added biased information towards Tamil. I also believe that this is not appropriate place to explain about Tamil language here and it should happen only under Tamil language page. Can anyone modify it to previous valid version. Agasthyathepirate 09:50, 31 March 2015
 * Let the discussion takes place and see the correct ref.--Vin09 (talk) 05:20, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I have provided valid references for all the content. Agasthyathepirate is trying to suppress facts supported by sources. An article about a city has to be inclusive. Also assuming a population based on area expansion which has never been officially published by GOI and repeatedly reverting changes is not the way to go.20:06, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I have corrected the info as per the reference. Do not add extra sentences which are not mentioned in the references.--Vin09 (talk) 13:20, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Tamil transliteration of the name
If the city's official language is telugu,then i think its meaningless transliterating it to tamil.i am removing it.g: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mheashkkoram (talk • contribs) 11:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Added Temples Section
Hi All, I have added Temples section under the Tirupati page. I believe being a temple Town which is having 8 to 9 ancient temples it must have a temples section which can list the details of those temples. However it can be brief information and user can redirect to main article for further information. And all temples are not having Wiki pages only 3 are having. Right now I have added only two, still other temples need to be added. --Agasthyathepirate(talk) — Preceding undated comment added 11:46, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * My advice is you can mention under heading Religious tourism in Tourism section. You forgot to sign your comment.--Vin09 (talk) 12:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Tirupati. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120412013703/http://www.tirumala.org:80/maintemple_history.htm to http://www.tirumala.org/maintemple_history.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120611202735/http://www.imd.gov.in:80/doc/climateimp.pdf to http://www.imd.gov.in/doc/climateimp.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150424232812/http://svvu.edu.in:80/history.html to http://www.svvu.edu.in/history.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 06:16, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Tirupati. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150430045712/http://forest.ap.nic.in:80/WL%20svnp.htm to http://forest.ap.nic.in/WL%20svnp.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150509084830/http://svzoo.org:80/html/theme.htm to http://svzoo.org/html/theme.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:03, 14 February 2016 (UTC)