Talk:Tokyo Mew Mew/Archive 2

Is this _really_ a "ribbon"? / Various mistakes
I don't know if this page is the right place to ask such questions, but can somebody explain this to me? Okay, I'm not a native Japanese speaker (despite my username), but I do know a little Japanese. I actually found out about Tokyo Mew Mew not so long ago, and since I knew nothing about it, I started to read the contents of every TMM webpage I happened to visit. Then, I finally managed to download the whole anime series, and now I have a question. Fansubs, as well as Tokyopop manga, claim that the first word of the Mew Mews' attacks is "ribbon". Well, I started to doubt it when I first heard Mew Ichigo say her attack incantation in the first episode. The "o" sound was clearly a long sound. I do not own the original Japanese manga, but I swear that I saw a scanned page with Mew Ichigo performing her attack, and it was written with a chōonfu (the symbol indicating a long sound; I don't know if I spelled it correctly).

リボーンストロベリーチェーック

Now, the word "ribbon" happened to be the first word of the anime opening song, "My Sweet Heart", and it is written in the subtitles on the opening like this:

リボン

See the difference. Actually, the word リボーン is the same word that was used in Sailor Saturn's attack "Death Reborn Revolution" in Sailor Moon manga. And it has been proved to be "reborn" and not "ribbon" by many people who know Japanese.

It still can be a pun on the word "ribbon", but it's actually "reborn". And, in my opinion, "reborn" makes more sense than "ribbon". Tokyo Mew Mew characters do not use ribbons in their attacks... okay, this is not a neccessary thing, because "Sailor Moon", for example, has many attacks that do not use objects mentioned in incantations themselves at all, like the infamous "Star Gentle Uterus" attack of Sailor StarMaker. But... could the word "reborn" be a reference to them being Mew Mews? I mean, it does make sense, if you consider that the girls' bodies were changed by Red Data Animals' DNA. It also could be a reference to reverting Chimera Animas back to normal, since this is what those attacks actually do. Again, it's just my personal opinion, and I'd like to see your comments on it.

Yume no Kishi 10:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

"Star Gentle Uterus"

........yeah..I just had to say something about this attack...

moving on, I tried リボン in the google translator and it came up as "ribbon'. I tried リボーン, and it coulsnt really translate it. it just said [ribon]. The translatior is a beta version so there is room for error (which would explain why the kanji of "Ao no Kishi" was off). But for sure, リボン is ribbon. So, リボーン could be reborn, because, well, try saying "ribbon", then "reborn". The "o" is longer in "reborn", so the Japanese went with the pronouniation of "reborn". So, I also think that リボーン is "reborn".

Yet again, a translation error by Tokyopop....geez I've never seen translation errors like this in any other manga...&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

edit: I go make a section called "Translation errors". &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

We probably shouldn't use "reborn" in the actual articles, though, because no one will know what it's refering to. I've never seen it translated as "reborn", except here, and I think it would be better if we just mentioned the translation. Yea.

It seems to me that I've NEVER seen it translated the right way, too. Wow. On most TMM sites it's written as "ribbon", even if the Japanese katakana spelling is provided. Same goes for Blue Knight's name, which can be seen WRITTEN in the anime. And, Angelofdeath, you'd better make a section called something like "Common mistakes", and throw there everything we've discussed here on Wikipedia talk pages ("Ao no Kishi", "Chimera Anima(l)", "Ribbon/Reborn"), since the reason for these mistakes is not only mistranslation/misspelling, there are very few webpages that provide correct information, so the mistakes just travel from one webpage to another. A list of common mistakes would be useful, I think. I agree, since people have already got used to the wrong spelling, we don't have to change every "ribbon" to "reborn", but we can make a page where such mistakes are listed, just for those who are curious. By the way, somewhere on this page, I've commented on Ichigo's age in the anime. This mistake stems from... what is it called... mishearing? So it also seems to be a common mistake, and can be added to this list, too. Yume no Kishi 02:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll go do that. I'll 1st just try to get everything in the translation errors section, then worry later about moving stuff into sections.

edit: I'll go ask my Japanese teacher what リボーン translates to, as she a native speaker. If she says it translates to "Reborn", I'll be using that in the article and go make a note about it in all of the Mews articles.


 * Your mistakes section is great! At least now this ribbon/reborn mistake is mentioned _somewhere_, as I've never seen this word spelled correctly before... too bad that not all of those who own TMM/MMP webpages use information from Wikipedia... so the mistake would probably live forever... (sigh) it's really not that hard to translate.


 * On a related note, have you found my comment about Ichigo's age? Oh well, I'll copy it here, just in case.


 * In her intro (episode 1) Ichigo actually says not "jū-ichi" (11), but "chū-ichi", and it's a reference to Ichigo's GRADE, not AGE. It means "first (ichi) year of middle school (chū[gakko])" (i.e. seventh grade). Compare this with Usagi's introduction in the first episode of "Sailor Moon": Usagi says "chū-ni", and that means "second year of middle school". This makes Ichigo a year younger than Usagi, and if Usagi was 13-14 at the beginning of the series, then Ichigo is about 12-13 years old. Thus, the correct age is 13, at least in the anime, since later in the series she obviously states that herself. I don't know about the manga, though. Anyway, she is NEVER 11-year-old in the anime series, unless she skipped two years of studying first, because she was a genius, and then stayed for two years in the same grade, because she went dumb after becoming a Mew Mew. This mistake should be fixed, too, because it is VERY confusing. Moreover, if the statement about Ichigo aging throughout the anime was right, the other characters would probably have ages variations, too, but I've never seen them described this way, exept for manga/anime age difference stated in their profiles.

So, here goes:

Usagi's intro from "Sailor Moon" anime, episode 1: "Atashi Tsukino Usagi, jū-roku-sai, chū-ni" (I'm Usagi Tsukino, 14-year-old, second year of middle school.)

Ichigo's intro from "Tokyo Mew Mew" anime, episode 1: "Atashi Momomiya Ichigo, chū-ichi" (I'm Ichigo Momomiya, first year of middle school.)

Ichigo's intro section from "Tokyo Mew Mew" anime, episodes 12+: "Atashi Momomiya Ichigo, jū-san-sai" (I'm Ichigo Momomiya, 13-year-old.)

Her age DOES match her grade, if you compare her to Usagi. By the way, fansubs translate those statements CORRECTLY, yet people still think that she's saying she's 11-year-old... Now, I believe everything is clear. Should we fix the references to Ichigo's age in the articles? For I fear that this mistake has already become immortal, like the "ribbon/reborn" mistake.


 * I went through all articles related to Tokyo Mew Mew, and came to the conclusion that they all need to be revised. Ichigo's age is stated correctly on one page, and incorrectly on another. Same goes for many other stuff, especially "Reborn ZaCross Pure" attack. The articles related to one topic shouldn't contradict each other. I'll go fix the attack names.

Yume no Kishi 22:10, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I asked my Japanese teacher what リボーン mean is, sand she says it is reborn. I kinda knew it was after repeating it for a while, but I just wanted to be sure. So, it is a a very bad translation error made my Tokyopop.

As for Ichigo's age, it become confusing since it kinda say the anime and manga are the same, even though the are not identical. I'll go and correct some of that to.

And, my Japanese teacher told me something very interesting. We talked about how "ao" has 2 kanji mean the same thing, which is blue. The reason why is because they used 蒼 for green, and 青 for blue. Example: 蒼いの草 aoi no kusa. In todays sence, this would mean "blue grass". But in an old sence this would means green(error i made in last edit) grass, She tole me that 緑 midori is a fairly new kanji/word, same with 紫 murasaki. So, before they use "midori", they used the other kanji for blue. So, the Blue Knight would have been translated to the "Green Knight". I think i''l go add a note about it.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 22:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't believe that I'm the first person to notice the "ribbon/reborn" mistake, since the mistake is really stupid...

I knew that they used the same word for "blue" and "green" in the past, but it didn't occure to me that it was the reason for the existance of two different kanji for the same word. Thank you for the info. ^_^


 * Ichigo's age explanation still looks kinda confusing... The connection between grade and age should be mentioned, since this is what proves that she's 12-13. Japanese children start studying at school at the age of six, and this is the start point for counting their years. This way, Ichigo's age can be easily calculated.

Yume no Kishi 23:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I never noticed it my self, but then its cause I dont have the japanese version of the manga since i never really see it on ebay (where i tend to look for them).

Yes, her age explaination is stil confusing. I thought that since you were the one who catched that, you were going to add. I could help you add that like correct for grammar or putting it into a better sentace if you would like. With the way her age explaination is, it look like it would take a whole revision. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes... Well, the fact that she's a seven-grader does prove that she's 12-13, and... ...hm, I'd like to know one thing first: does the _manga_ state her _grade_ anywhere? That whole manga/anime age difference thing seems strange for me... and now I have one HUGE suspicion about this.


 * I've fixed the age references a little, but without explanaton...

... o_O Is it true that Tokyopop manga calls her a seven-grader?! How can she be 11 then?

Now I'm really confused...

Let's see...

6-7 year old = 1st grade / 1st year of elementary school;

7-8 year old = 2nd grade / 2nd year of elementary school;

8-9 year old = 3rd grade / 3rd year of elementary school;

9-10 year old = 4th grade / 4th year of elementary school;

10-11 year old = 5th grade / 5th year of elementary school;

11-12 year old = 6th grade / 6th year of elementary school;

12-13 year old = 7th grade / 1st year of middle school;

13-14 year old = 8th grade / 2nd year of middle school;

14-15 year old = 9th grade / 3rd year of middle school;

15-16 year old = 10th grade / 1st year of high school;

16-17 year old = 11th grade / 2nd year of high school;

17-18 year old = 12th grade / 3rd year of high school;

At least this is how it was in "Sailor Moon".

Is this... yet another mistake?..

Yume no Kishi 01:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

That chart you made is also true are Americans schools, and yes it does her grade is 7th, and maybe other mistake made my Tokyopop.... if this isn't evident in the Japanese manga..geez Tokyopop made many mistakes....

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

edit: I believe it also said that she was 11, but it wouldn't make sence how shes in 7th.....i can't find some of my Tokyo mew mew mangas, but I can remember it saying somewhere that she introduced herself as 11. Now im thinkin Tokyopop made an error..&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I've found some fan translation, where it is stated that she's in the first year of middle school, so Tokyopop's reference to her age is most likely a mistake. Yume no Kishi 02:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems that now we don't need to explain the anime/manga age difference thing simply because it doesn't exist... Though I wonder about the other Mew Mews' ages now...

The other Mews ages are probaly the same, bcause they are considered sidekicks and wouldn't get the attention as Ichigo. We will still need an explanation for Ichigo's age, because there are many fans who are confused. But it will need a revision. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 03:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Since you've said that there is no difference between Japanese and American schools in terms of the age/grade thing, I believe there is no need to provide a special explanation of Ichigo's age. HOWEVER, what should be mentioned is the Tokyopop mistranslation. On both TMM main page in the Translation Errors section, and Ichigo's page. This is way easier than writing all this stuff I've written above.

Yume no Kishi 04:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

yea, I'll go do that then tomarrow.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 04:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I've fixed Ichigo's age on the main TMM page. Since there is a link from Ichigo's section to the page where you explained the mistake, I belive this "11-year-old" thing won't confuse people anymore.

And about Zakuro's attack: her page still says that the CORRECT translation is "Zakuro Spear", but we don't know for sure which version is REALLY correct. I personally still go with "cross/pure" thing, so we can just say that there is more than one way to translate Zakuro's attack, and since it really appears to be a big pun, both versions are correct in some way. Only I don't know how to put it all in words so that the info wouldn't be too confusing.

What's with the Masaya/Deep Blue thing?! One page stated that Masaya and BK are part of Deep Blue (this is actually what Pie said in episode 50, but there was some other interesting info), and this info can appear somewhere again, on other pages I've seen statements that DB is either part of Masaya (yep, the other way around...) or Masaya's evil alter-ego. This topic NEEDS clarification. He's an ancient spirit, actually. Since there are some points in the anime where the thing is explained, I think that all this facts need to be gathered together, analyzed and placed somewhere on Deep Blue's page. Once I even bothered to write down Pie's explanation to examine it. Again, I don't know what is said about it in the manga...

One thing I know for sure is that articles that deal with the same topic shouldn't contradict each other. And this thing starts to remind me of the debates on whether Sailor Cosmos is a form of Sailor Moon or not. If the info is something that was said in the original anime or manga, it just HAS to be provided, because fans who haven's seen/read the original story tend to make up weird statements.

Yume no Kishi 19:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have fixed the article about Deep Blues back ground. I could have missed a few, so let me know. Right now I'm going to add Ichigo's age mitstake to the translation errors section. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Look what I've done to Zakuro's attack explanation. These middle dots (which aren't in the original attack) are to show how exactly the words are separated, so that it's clear where all these translations come from. Do you think it's a good idea to insert them?

Maybe make a link from the mistakes section to her article where this explanation is written?

Stuff about "Japanese pronunciation of Chimera Anima" (it's still in their article, if I'm not mistaken) should be removed. It's not that hard to type the word is some online dictionary to see what it is actually translates to, though it still could be a pun on the word "animal", and this should be mentioned. And can you tell me if the "Animal" spelling is even USED anywhere (manga/subs/etc.) besides Wikipedia? Tokyopop and fansubs use "Anima". I know now where it came from (since you were the one who tried to defend it... before I started to edit Wikipedia, and you said that you and other fans simply didn't know what it means), but if there are no official sources that use this spelling, shouldn't it be corrected everywhere?

I rewrote some information about Deep Blue, so that the confusing thing isn't mentioned at all, but instead I added some other things in Masaya's article (why is it so short? is it just because nobody seem to like Masaya? and poor Blue Knight doesn't even have his own article...), about Mew Aqua. Why wasn't it mentioned anywhere before?

...Geez, the mistakes section is getting big... how many more of them can be found, I wonder...

Yume no Kishi 09:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

"And can you tell me if the "Animal" spelling is even USED anywhere (manga/subs/etc.) besides Wikipedia?'

I've seen it in some fansubs on youtube, and one said that chimera anima means chimera animal. Yes it can be thought as a pun, since so many things in Tokyo Mew Mew have puns. I'll edit Chimera animal article later on., and add a not about the confusion. I though that anima was an translation error, since there are many in Tokyo Mew Mew, so I was thinking "omg..another mispelling...." Anima isn't a word used alot, so I wonder if the word is used alot in Japan.

I was thinking that the Blue Knight should have his own article, once Masaya's article becomes considerably long.

yes...many many errors and confusion....And to think most of this could be resolved of Tokyopop had a translation notes section......

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

To think of it, it's actually a good thing that Tokyopop translated something right... even though they messed up the "Chimera" part...

Yume no Kishi 01:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Is this _really_ a "ribbon"? / Various mistakes
I'm inclined to think that it actually IS a ribbon, because even the Italian dub translates it as fiocco, which is Italian for ribbon.

And the JWPce dictionary also gives me ribbon as the English word for リボン (RI-BO-N).

So I'm inclined to think that the so-called ribbon IS actually a ribbon. ;) - OBrasilo 23:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

They say リボーン, not リボン. Anyway, I'll add the info to the articles, unless you perfer you do so. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no sense in denying that リボーン is not "ribbon" but "reborn", because in case of Sailor Saturn's attack that use the same word, it was proved by many articles dealing with the topic, and since the word in Mews' attacks is the same as in Saturn's, we can say for sure that it's "reborn". So, the Italian dub seems to have made the same mistake as Tokyopop.

Yume no Kishi 00:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC) Hey OBrasilo, are the Mew Mew's weapons the same as the Japanese version?

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

WHO THE HELL REMOVED THE "REBORN" THING FROM THE PAGE?! Geez, I don't know how to revert edits... HELP!!!

Yume no Kishi 02:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Phew... I managed to revert it, but the thing really pissed me off, as the person who removed this paragraph didn't even bother to sign/log in. Angelofdeath, you should take care of the Translation Errors section. Maybe add a note about the word being used in Sailor Saturn's attack, since "Death Reborn Revolution" got an explanation long ago? I remember those articles, on DIES GAUDII and some other sites. What's with all these people denying the obvious and removing important stuff without discussing it first?

Yume no Kishi 02:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC) Yea. When deletling something like they should try using the edit summary thing or look at discussions.....To revert something, you go to "history" then compare one revision to the current one. In the current edit, there will be something saying (undo), which reverts the last revision (this is only for people who have an account).

It is a clear example how believe believe Tokyopop and has lead to *so* much confusion......

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 04:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Well... Now I think that making a comparison to Saturn's attack could help... this would be a reliable source, actually, as people would be able to see that "ribbon/reborn" explanation written on other sites (a link should be provided), if they don't believe what we wrote in the mistakes section.

Yume no Kishi 07:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Found somebody's complaining about "Chimera Anima" and "ribbon" thing above... Once we found out that the first one really wasn't an error, would it make sense to change their name, since "Animal" is not used anywhere besides some fansubs? I know that I've already asked that before, but I still can't decide on whether to change "Animal" to "Anima" or not. ("To change or not to change, there is a question." ^_^;;;) I mean, I'm sure that you are not the only person who thought that it was "animal", so if we start editing the thing, a good explanation should be provided wherever possible, so the editing will probably take some time...

I made a link from Translation Errors section to Zakuro's attack explanation on her page (YES! my first link in Wikipedia!.. ^_^;;;;;;;).

And I still think somewhere should be an explanation on the Mews' names - how they're written using hiragana/katakana when in normal/MewMew form. I mentioned somewhere, that this is kinda an interesting thing, because until I learned how they were written in the original, I found it funny how adding a "Mew" could help to hide one's secret identity. Hiding secret identity and adding "Mew" in katakana are the reason for this change, and though in the anime it looks strange, it looks pretty much natural in the manga, same as with Ao no Kishi. Due to Tokyopop's specifical romanization this difference got removed, making the thing look kinda funny. So, using different symbols wasn't much for adding emphasis, as said in the articles, but more for the purpose of hiding secret identity, i.e. altering the names. By the way, Ichigo tends to introduce herself as "MewMew" instead of "Mew Ichigo", though the other Mews call her and each other by "Mew [Name]", and the Blue Knight also calls her "Mew Ichigo", even after his identity was revealed.

And I can think of one case of using hiragana for the foreighn words in "Sailor Moon". You know that story called "Parallel Sailor Moon"? Well, it's title was written as ぱられるせぇらぁむ～ん instead of パラレルセーラームーン, probably to show that the story is really "parallel". So, changing the alphabet kinda reflects changing from normal state to unusual, as when the girls transform into superheroines. I still don't know why was the spelling of "Mew" altered (yes, better call it "altered", not "incorrect"), maybe just to make the logo look prettier. ^_^

This topic needs explanation, as many people are (and will be) confused: why the romanization of Mew's names is correct (technically it is still correct, even though I personally prefer another way of writing them), "anima" is correct, and "ribbon" is incorrect. Seeing how the "ribbon/reborn" explanation got deleted by some Wikipedia visitor who didn't even have an account... And still, character's names and attacks' names are DIFFERENT THINGS! We may use Tokyopop's romanization of characters' names (and it's fine since it isn't really incorrect), but we surely don't have to use their badly romanized attack names... and "reborn" is not the only word that was mistranslated, though this one mistranslation is bad enough...

Yume no Kishi 10:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I was going to add some info about... the thing I described above, but since it isn't really a translation error, I just don't know where to insert this explanation. Still, I insist on mentioning it somewhere, since at least one person (me) was confused by this way of romanizing the Mews' names (that was until I found out how they were written in the original manga).

Yume no Kishi 19:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I finally added a reference to Sailor Saturn's attack that uses the word "Reborn". At least two sites (DIES GAUDII and "The oracle") have articles that call "ribbon" a mistranslation. There is a link from Sailor Saturn's article to the page of "The oracle", where it is written. Now, let's hope that people will bother to read this info before deciding to remove this part of the mistakes section...

Yume no Kishi 20:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

What you add about sailor saturn will be helpful, because if someone knows about sailor moon, chances are they know about Tokyo Mew Mew. I'm pretty sure, they will be some more people who will delete that, and it will be us to revert it, since we both know it a fact it is "reborn".

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems like we have done everything that was possible to explain this particular thing, so we can leave people to read this info, and move to some other things... Let's see, what else can be done. So, here is a list of all the interesting stuff:

1) Ichigo's age mistake - fixed everywhere, explanation provided;

2) Ribbon/Reborn mistake - fixed everywhere, explanation provided (though some people will say stuff about using Tokyopop's names... how to explain that this note is only for characters' names?);

3) Zakuro's weapon and attack - explanation provided;

4) Anima/Animal - explanation provided, but all articles still say "animal";

5) Masaya/Deep Blue - still needs explanation, especially info from the manga (seriously, I visited a lot of TMM sites, and saw SO MANY theories about Deep Blue, that I still tend to compare him to Sailor Cosmos, whose origin remains one of the main topics of the "Sailor Moon" debates);

6) Romanization of the Mews' names - still don't know where to add a comment about this stuff, but it is really an interesting thing to mention;

Hm... We did a good job of improving TMM articles, didn't we? ^_^ Too bad that I don't have any manga to search for other mistakes and interesting things...

In Mint's article, why there is no mention of her family? In the anime, she has a grandmother, and her brother Seiji (藍沢誓司 Aizawa Seiji) appeared in one episode (though he apparently doesn't exist in the manga).

I removed a part of the "Sailor Moon" reference from the "Mew Mew Power" section: "Sailor Moon" wasn't that dark, and the thing wasn't really worth mentioning.

And I had to revert vandalism in Masaya's article. Poor Masaya... am I the only person who kinda likes him?.. Placed a warning message on this person's talk page.

Yume no Kishi 12:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

"4) Anima/Animal - explanation provided, but all articles still say "animal";"

I was thinking on fixing the Chimera Animal article last, since that article is the longest one. I'll 1st correct "animal" to "anima" then add a section about it.

The orginal Mews' articles are ok, though these is still room for improvement (there always is). Ringo's, well I cant comment on hers since I've havent play the playstaion game, Berry's still misses somthings (hers doesnt seem as "complete" as the other Mews).

I also noticed the Mint family isn't mentioned, but i forgot her brothers name. Since 4kids took off most of the Tokyo Mew Mew episode on Youtube, I wasn't able to add that. I'll mention this in hers, and the other Mews, for the sake of saying that some of the Mews family is mention some arent.

"5) Masaya/Deep Blue - still needs explanation, especially info from the manga (seriously, I visited a lot of TMM sites, and saw SO MANY theories about Deep Blue, that I still tend to compare him to Sailor Cosmos, whose origin remains one of the main topics of the "Sailor Moon" debates);"

Yes his will have to get almost the same tratment as the anima/animal thing. Justto make this eaiser, give me a summary one the masaya/deep blue thing, then I'll add to the articles.

"6) Romanization of the Mews' names - still don't know where to add a comment about this stuff, but it is really an interesting thing to mention;"

give me a short summary on it, then ill add it to the Mews article. It might help clear up somethings

"Hm... We did a good job of improving TMM articles, didn't we? ^_^"

Yeah we did! Things that were confusing are now all explained! that really improved the article!

geez, all those theories about Deep Blue....that will have to the go into the Translatoin errors, mistakes section...

Articles that are in need of help:


 * Hime Azumi- She is one the that started Tokyo Mew Mew. Ikumi 1st made this manga, so Tokyo Mew Mew is the spinoff.


 * Keiichiro Akasaka- geez...his is too short, and he doesn't even have a "anime" and "manga" section....really needs more info.


 * Masaya Aoyama- doesn't have manga and aine section, barely any mention on the Blue Knight, I think his "weapons and abilies" section is too small, will evantually need a separate article on the blue knight.


 * Ryou Shirogane- though his is the longest out of the 3 guys (my guess is fangirls is the reason), he doesnt have a "manga" and "anime" section


 * Tasuku Meguro- though he really isnt a main character in a la mode, he stiil needs some help in the article.


 * Masha (Tokyo Mew Mew)- still needs some things here n there


 * Ucha (Tokyo Mew Mew)- the shortest article


 * Pie, Kish and Tart - doesnt have anime section, no mention of manga,

funny how the Mews article are ok adn theres isn't...

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 20:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Romanization

In the original manga, the Mews' normal names were written in hiragana (or, in case of Pudding, in kanji), even if they were of non-Japanese origin (like Lettuce, Mint and Pudding). Their "Mew" names were written in katakana, even if they were of Japanese origin (like Ichigo and Zakuro). So, the "normal" names and the "Mew" names looked differently in the original manga, and that was probably done for the purpose of altering the names to make it look like the Mews are "hiding their secret identities" (of course, this thing doesn't work in the anime, but we are talking about the manga). Due to Tokyopop's romanization the difference got removed (though it is hard to romanize Ichigo's and Zakuro's names in two different ways), making the thing look kinda funny, because the only difference between the names was "Mew", and one may wonder how adding a "Mew" could help "hide one's secret identity". Though, this way of romanizing the names still can be count as correct, as there are some cases of writing non-Japanese words in hiragana instead of katakana in other manga stories.

...Geez, I really have a problem with putting my thoughts into words...

And about Deep Blue: I need some information from the manga to understand the thing better. Pie's explanation from the anime is kinda messed up...

Yume no Kishi 22:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I try to find the mangas, hen ill tell you the manga' explaination of him.

That is a good summary. I'll add this to all of the Mews' articles.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 22:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

More info about Mint's brother.

He appeared in episode 9. He is older than Mint, and much more serious. Apparently he doesn't have much time to be with his sister, and he once said about Mint that she's lucky, as she only dances (meaning that she doesn't have to deal with some important and difficult things, like business). In that episode, the girls went to Mint's house (Pudding liked her house, as it was big like a castle), and there they met her brother, who didn't seem to pay much attention to her. Mint was to perform a ballet and wanted Seiji to come, but he was busy and had to go somewhere else. The girls tried to stop him and persuade him to come, but they couldn't. However, at the end of the episode, after Mint's performance, Seiji came to give her some flowers, and she realized that he still cares for her.

...I probably messed something up, but I'm too lazy to rewatch the whole episode. ^_^;;;

Yume no Kishi 00:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

What about her mom and dad? are they too busy also?

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Apparently, they're almost never at home, and her grandmother has to look after her.

Yume no Kishi 00:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Some tried to delete "reborn" in Ichigo's article, so i reverted it. They even tried to justify the false translation in Ichigo's page discussion...this is the same person who tried deleteing it on Tokyo Mew Mew.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well... I won't comment on this thing, as I've already done it before...

(Did these people bother to WATCH the anime? Because "ribbon" is said in the opening, and it sounds completely different from what the Mews say in their attacks.)

Yume no Kishi 01:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubting the person who tried deleting it ever did watch the anime...so yea...so far, I've changed "animal" to "anima" on all article except "Chimera Animal" article. I'm pretty sure I messed a few.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 06:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I'm writing Pudding's Italian name as Puddy, because it's written like that on the Italian Wikipedia. However, it's pronounced according to the English pronunciation norms, and thus some Italians incorrectly write it as Paddi or Paddy.

And about the ribbon/reborn, the Honobono fan-subs also translate it as ribbon, though this could be, because the word ribbon (リボン, RI-BO-N) in the opening theme, and the word reborn (リボーン, RI-BOO-N) are pronounced basically the same, so it could well have confused them.

I have yet to see the Italian fan-subbed version of Tokyo Mew Mew, and how the Mews' attacks are translated there, and who knows, maybe they're translated correctly there.

BTW, from Ichigo Momomiya's Wikiepdia article: Episode introductions near the end of the anime describe her as 13.

Actually, she introduces herself as 13 years old from episode 12 on. - OBrasilo 19:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

"Ribbon/reborn" is a common mistake. In Japanese language, the length of vowels is important, as changing a short vowel to a long vowel can completely change the meaning of the word. This thing DOES exist in the English language, too, by the way (a classic example is "ship"/"sheep").

...Gah, someone else tried to change "anima" to "animal" in Deep Blue's article... and I thought that the explanation in Translation Errors section was pretty clear...

EDIT: I added weapons' names to all Mews' articles. Thanks for the info!

Yume no Kishi 20:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Zakuro's attack explanation on her page gives the impression that there are two ways of writing the "supyua" part in katakana, when there is only one... I mean, it doesn't change in the original version... the kana is always the same...

...I fear that our "Translation Errors" section will eventually need a separate ARTICLE...

Yume no Kishi 23:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I typed in supia in the goole translator nad it came up as spear, supyua didnt come up as anything, so I though the section that supports "spear" would have "supia" and the one that supports spear and pure would have "supyua".

..If the "Translation Errors" section gets too long....yes......and if this isnt the only manga with soo many errors..oh boy..

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

edit: I'll leave a note to why I used 2 spellings.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:26, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Geez, if Tokypop has so much problems with translating ENGLISH words that are written in katakana... how they even manage to translate Japanese words written in kanji?......

...That person is adding parentheses in the articles AGAIN. It... probably has something to do with using full-width parentheses instead of normal... but I still don't get it.

...This discussion page got too long... stuff about mistakes needs a separate one...

Yume no Kishi 23:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by "full-width parentheses"? And the reason I'm adding them is because it just looks really sloppy to just dump the kana at the end of the name, Besides, that's how the names at the begining of the article are formatted, with the kanji in parentheses.

...^_^;;;

The reason why the names are written in parentheses at the beginning of the articles is because they include kana/kanji spelling and romaji spelling, and this stuff is placed next to the "English" spelling of names as a note. Notes are often written in parentheses. ^_^; And I think, the "sloppiness" can be removed by adding something other than parenthesis... something like Japanese pronunciation. The thing looks sloppy probably just because of the font that is used, but believe me, inserting parentheses doesn't REALLY make it look better...

Yume no Kishi 00:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

"What do you mean by "full-width parentheses"? And the reason I'm adding them is because it just looks really sloppy to just dump the kana at the end of the name,"

Thats why its all spaced out for it not to look sloppy. With two parentheses it makes it look odd. I'm not seeing anything with 2 parentheses in any of the articles.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 04:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

...Again people were trying to say that "Reborn" is incorrect... right, that person apparently never saw original Japanese manga, even scanned... or he/she doesn't know what the ー chōonfu symbol is for...

By the way. I went to Google, and started searching for random Japanese words related to Tokyo Mew Mew. Several sites confirmed that リボーン is "reborn".

Then, I discovered that the word "check", that is used in Ichigo's attack, actually can be written in katakana TWO ways: チェック and チェーック. Yes, this time it is the same word. Odd, and the spelling that is used in the original manga is チェーック. I'll correct the word in Ichigo's article.

Yume no Kishi 00:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you have site that confirmed that its "reborn"? That person needs a wake up call that it "reborn"....and it will help people realize who look at these articles that it is "reborn".

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 22:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

No. I just inserted kana, and got a list of sites, with the English word "reborn" written here and there...

EDIT: There is apparently a shounen manga titled "Katekyo Hitman Reborn!" (licensed by Viz Media). The translators even bothered to keep the katakana characters リボーン in the English logo (the English title is simply "Reborn!", and the logo seems to be made from the original logo, only with the "Katekyo Hitman" part removed; if it's so, then リボーン was translated into "reborn" even in the original Japanese version). So... either NO ONE PERSON in the world (including the Japanese people, and except for fansubbers and, OF COURSE, Tokyopop's translators) can translate the word right, or the person who doesn't believe that it's "reborn" is too lazy to search for some sources that show this word in both kana and English. This is the second example (the first one was in "Sailor Moon") of the word リボーン being translated as "reborn". How many more should we find to convince this person that it's "reborn"?

And Cyprine from "Sailor Moon" has an attack called "Ribbon Buster" (リボン・バスター ribon basutaa), and the word "Ribbon" is written differently from the word リボーン riboun in Saturn's attack. I'm tired of these debates... If the person doesn't understand the obvious things, nothing can be done about this.

Yume no Kishi 22:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * As for Reborn!, the original title uses the Latin alphabet to write "reborn" (ja:家庭教師ヒットマンREBORN!) but in the manga it's written in katakana as リボーン, so I'd say it fully proves your point. --Εξαίρετος ([[Image:Noia_64_apps_email.png|20px]]msg) 11:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * When English words are used in the Japanese manga (written in Latin letters), they're often associated with katakana characters that show the pronunciation of the words, and this is what was done in the original "Reborn!" logo, so in this case it's pretty clear what リボーン translates to. So, this example would be even better than Saturn's attack, as it shows the word translated this way in the original Japanese manga.


 * The original manga cover

Yume no Kishi 12:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This will REALLY help show proof the "reborn" is correct!! I'll add this!!!

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Whew.....just got done from changing "animal" to "anima" in Chimera Anima. I know I missed a few though, but that article is LONG.....

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I checked the article, seems that you changed all "animals" to "animas". Now "animal" is only in the page title.

Yume no Kishi 00:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow! I seriously thought I missed a few since the article is long. Just got done moving Chimera Animal to Chimera Anima.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Geez, it took me several days to understand what was wrong with the parentheses and why that person tried to add more... I was right... it's probably because of the full-width parentheses. If the operating system doesn't support Japanese script, they're simply not shown... Why am I so slow?..

That person didnt give an explanation. Just said something about the kana not the parentheses....and there was no reason to have 2 parentheses as oppsed to removing the other parenthese. That person must have Windows or something.

Sigh..once again someone tried deleting the "reborn" thing again....geez I feel like I'll evantually have to watch it 24/7....

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

People simply got used to "ribbon", so we shouldn't get mad at them for deleting this stuff. It'll took them some time to understand how could so many people translate it wrong. And not all of them have the original manga to see how the word is written there.

Yume no Kishi 02:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't have th Japanese manga, but I choose admit that "ribbon" was wrong. Well, since the manga has to many errors, I guess it was eaiser. But when someone deletes it without really understanding it, that is what paticually angers me. That link ot the article "reborn" will help greatly.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 06:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be hard for some people to admit that they're mistaken... though I don't really understand why delete the explanation in the TE section. We're not forcing people to believe us and use "reborn" instead of "ribbon", we simply state that it was a mistake, and even if nobody besides the two of us uses "reborn", it's still a mistake. What's wrong with telling people that a particular word was mistranslated?


 * By the way. I found that damned manga picture with Ichigo's "Reborn Strawberry Check", the one that made me ask a question here (which led to us constantly arguing with people who defend the "ribbon" version). I bothered to save it on my computer when I found it on some site. The picture seems to be edited a bit to make it look clear. I was going to upload it to Wikipedia to use it as an illustration to our explanation, but I don't remember where it came from, so I'm not sure if we can use it here. But adding a picture from the manga that shows the word written in katakana would be useful... Maybe search for another picture?

Yume no Kishi 10:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

That person (Fushi2), who tried to defend the "ribbon" version in Ichigo's discussion (and whom I convinced to sign for an account), actually did a clever thing. We'd better not remove all "ribbons" and change them to "reborn", but leave both versions (look at Ichigo's page). Since "ribbon" is used everywhere, there is no reason to completely delete it. I think it's OK, as long as the comment about "ribbon" being a mistranslation stays in all articles. Only we should think how to make the text look better (the attacks' names are long, and if we add them in two versions...).

Maybe write something like "Ribbon/Reborn [Attack Name] "?

Yume no Kishi 19:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure. It looks a tad to stick it there odd because of the kana. I mean, it would kinda imply (uninteniaonally) that its ok to use "ribbon" even though it is the incorrect translation. Like for example:

If a non-Japanese fan were to talk to a Japanese fan of Tokyo Mew Mew and began to mention the attack names, the Japanese fan would say its "reborn", the an argument about ribbon and reborn would start. Yes, its a little far-fechted, but with the human population being so big and the internet, it could happen.

Further more, Tokyopop is known for sometimes incorrect/oddly translated words and Tokyo Mew Mew happens to be one of those mangas. Using a mistranslated word kinda does more bad then good. Chimera Anima is a good example. Katekyo Hitman Reborn! clearly shows that リボーン is reborn, so therefore there would be no reason to use "ribbon".

Hmm. I'm going to try to find a picture of the Japanese manga, with one of the Mews saying their attack.

"I was going to upload it to Wikipedia to use it as an illustration to our explanation, but I don't remember where it came from, so I'm not sure if we can use it here."

If you have a photobucket account, upload it there, then give the link to see if it should be used; kinda like a consenus.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a photobucket account... and can't create one right now because the site is on maintenance...

And I'm not sure about this thing, too: it does look odd to use two translations, but the fans are still more familiar with "ribbon", so...

Hm, maybe place the mistranslated attack names somewhere on the pages, just for the reference (like "this is how it was translated in the Tokyopop manga and fansubs")?

Yume no Kishi 23:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I have found 4 pics of Ichigo, Mint and Lettuce. say their attacks from the Japanese version of the manga. I'll upload them. But, I think I'll need the lyrics from the opening song to show that they are in fact different.

Hmm. I think I'll add a "reborn" section then how they were transalated in the English version of manga, then some of the pics. I think i'll look when better when I add it, then explain it.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I'll try to take a screenshot from the opening where the word is written?

Yume no Kishi 00:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I that would work best.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

My computer seems to have a huge problem with uploading files, so I couldn't upload the file to Wikipedia, but managed to upload it to photobucket. Here is a link to it.

The word "ribbon" in TMM opening

Yume no Kishi 10:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I'll upload it myself, and say it came from you, it give you credit.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 22:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I have uploaded it but I have one question: Which of the subtitles would from the Japanese version? The kana alone or the kana and the rominization?

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 22:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Only kana.

Yume no Kishi

Now we'll see if there is a person who can delete this stuff from all articles...

Yume no Kishi 23:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

If they can, it will be very ovbious that they wont accept the correct translation and/or in denial.....now I only need a pic of Mint, Pudding, Zakuro, Berry and possibly Ringo showing they say リボーン.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Now, with all these pictures, the TE section became huge...

Yume no Kishi 13:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I was adding kanji/kana for some of the characters' names, and went to the article about Saint Rose Crusaders. Yeah, I've seen a picture of them, too, and wrote down what was written on it. I don't know where to add it, since the text is long. The katakana for their name, セントローズクルセイダーズ, is associated with kanji 聖薔薇騎士団 (half of this I can translate, but not all...). And they're the only characters who don't have their names written in Japanese in their article... now at least the name of the group can be added.

P.S. This discussion needs archiving again.

Yume no Kishi 20:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Yea it did become big with the pics. I added to of the manga pics to prove that リボーン is definiatly there as oppsoed ot being a typo; its a new translation error, I made sure that it is for a fact "ribbon" is an error.

I've now found my mangas of Tokyo Mew Mew, so I'll search through the books what it says about Deep Blue. But, give me a short about the rumors/misconceptions of Deep Blue for the sake of adding it to the TE section. Then I'll evantually add his orgin according to the English version of the manga.

I've been able to break up the kanji into hiragana: ひじりばらきしだん. I'll go ask someone what this kanji means. Bit still, I'll add the kana to their article.

i'll go ask the person who archived the talk section to archive some of the older ones

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Yume no Kishi 04:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is some info about the Blue Knight from the anime that you may wish to add.

The Blue Knight is introduced at the end of episode 17, when he comes to save Mew Ichigo from Kish (Ichigo was ill and was too weak to fight). In the next episode, when asked by Kish who he is, the Blue Knight replies by saying: "Who knows?.. Obviously not your ally!". Kish then attacks him, and he is angry because the blond alien is able to hold against his attacks. Mew Ichigo wonders why the Blue Knight saved her. The Blue Knight gets injured in the arm when trying to protect Ichigo from Kish, but then other Mews arrive, and Kish has to leave. The Blue Knight then tells Mew Ichigo that he was born to protect her, and walks away. Just then, Ryou appears out of nowhere and catches Mew Ichigo, who faints. Later, the girls begin to think that the Blue Knight is Ryou. Ichigo remembers that the Blue Knight said she was heavier than she looked, the same thing that Ryou said when he saved her from a rat Chimera Anima in episode 1.

The Blue Knight appears again in Episode 26, saving Mew Ichigo (she fell from the back of a giant moth Chimera Anima), and again he tells her that he was born to protect her. Thinking that the Blue Knight is Ryou, Ichigo tries to tell him that she already has a boyfriend, to which he replies that he doesn't mind, and that loving somebody is noble. Later, he continues to help the Mews fight Chimera Animas, and often he tells them what the monster's weak point is, making it easier for them to defeat it.

The Blue Knight's identity is revealed in Episode 45, when Kish tries to kill Ichigo (who can't transform because he knocked away her pendant) because she refused to be with him. Masaya (in normal form) comes to help her (that scene gives the impression that he can sense if Ichigo is in danger), and when she tells him to run away, he refuses. Kish is annoyed, and tries to attack him, but Ichigo interrupts, and Masaya only gets cut in the arm (yeah, again...). Masaya then transforms into the Blue Knight (it isn't clear whether he transformed at his own will or not), but because of his injury he can't fight normally, and Kish nearly kills him. Ichigo grabs her pendant and runs in front of Kish's attack to protect Masaya. Kish is shocked, thinking that he killed Ichigo, but Mew Ichigo's weapon puts a shield around her, saving both her and the Blue Knight. After that, Masaya joins the team, even though Ryou doesn't seem to like that idea.

Again, I'm too lazy to watch all these episodes, so...

And we need more info from the manga.


 * (And why did he become the Blue Knight in the first place? While it is clear that it has something to do with Deep Blue, and possibly with the Mew Aqua inside him, why did he claimed to be Mew Ichigo's protector? What is it, some "subconscious wish to protect her" (like with the Moonlight Knight from "Sailor Moon")? He says in episode 38 that he could become the Blue Knight whenever Ichigo needed him (interestingly, this is the episode where it is revealed that he can't transform if Ichigo isn't near him).)

Yume no Kishi 06:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll add this to his article. Hmm. I'll try to explain Deep Blue orgin as best as I can. I'll go make a section about Deep Blue just to make it easier.


 * A little bit off-topic: about the Mews' attacks.

I believe they do use "Mew Power Extension" in the anime, too (this attack is labelled as "manga only" in the articles). They used it at least in episode 38, to prevent Tokyo from being destroyed by the explosion of the Mew Aqua, and possibly later during the battle with Deep Blue (though I'm not sure about this).

Yume no Kishi 14:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I was looking at the mangas looking for new info n such. I think I forgot to put "unsure about anime", but I'll remove the "manga only" part.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 04:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Two useless notes about the Blue Knight's name, just because I'm bored.

1. Stuff about "being more familiar with 青" is worth mentioning, but it needs better explanation. I've actually seen several sites (including Wikipedia, before I started editing it) where his name is written with 青 instead of 蒼, and this spelling completely turns his name into a spoiler. Yes, this is usually written by fans who haven't seen the original manga or anime (though in the anime his name appears in written form only twice), but know about his Japanese name (i.e. romanization) that is mentioned on many TMM sites. So, the reason for this is the lack of the original sources, not Tokyopop's translation (I don't think they'd have kept the Blue Knight's Japanese name).

2. I've actually seen one site where his name was translated as "the Blue Horseman". That one was funny...

Yume no Kishi 18:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

So, that would would be one reason, and also comes back to being more familiar with 青. I think it also has to do with 蒼 not being taught in the 1st or second year of Japanese ot new learners. But I'll add this to masaya's and the blue knight's article.

Masaya's has become very short. One way to exspand his article would be to split his history section in two; manga and anime.

The talk page is getting very long. Should "Is this _really_ a "ribbon"? / Various mistakes" be archived?

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 22:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

There is still some useful info in that section. Maybe look through it to see if there are some comments that we'll need, and write this stuff somewhere in a shortened form?


 * That discussion that you inserted... * cries* Why the hell I even bothered to say here that it was a mistake?......


 * I don't really know Japanese. I just picked it up by watching subbed anime and reading some scanned manga. I knew about "reborn" just because I actually like "Sailor Moon" (and that's probably why I like "Tokyo Mew Mew", too), and I've seen this word written there, and read many articles about this thing. And when I found that picture with "Strawberry Check", I went "What? So, this is the same word that was in Saturn's attack? So, that means that it was mistranslated everywhere?!" And I couldn't believe at first, as I've never seen the Mews' attacks translated like this, but I knew that it was "reborn"! When I created an account here (to fix the "ao" kanji), I at first didn't even have enough courage to ask about this thing! But then I saw that there are some people who know Japanese, so I posted that question, and you answered, and I was still wondering why nobody pointed this out before, since it was very simple! And now we have to keep this thing from being deleted and constantly argue with people who don't believe us... why?..

Yume no Kishi 00:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I managed to revert the vandalism, and the tone of the comment the person attempted to leave makes me believe it was most likely fushi2.

Do you take a Japanese class or something similar? I am currently taking a 2nd yr of Japanese, so I can make mistakes. I know the basis of katakana but still need work. I mean, you were able to half translate 聖薔薇騎士団 and I don't know any of those kanji, therefore I cant translate it. Seeing how were able to translate some of the kanji is really good!

When you said "ribbon" was a mistake, it GREATLY improved the article. It made me think the a "translation errors" section would be great to make since the manga is littered with mistakes.....it made me think that clarifying certain thing would really help the article and that it did! It is not bad that you chose to say "ribbon" is wrong, let alone my Japanese teacher said so, (which would mean the native Japanese would say so also) and "Katekyo Hitman Reborn!" shows that also. Its all proof to show it is "reborn".

My guess to why no one said it was "reborn" is because before you began editing, I was like the sole person editing Tokyo Mew Mew. It was hard to do so, having to edit all the articles, and imrpvoe them. Now that you habe begun editing, it has made it much less of a burden, and I thank you for that!.

If only there was a way to lock that section to keep it from being deleted......I'm really close to going to forums to spread the word of "reborn"....

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Useless. They already deleted it from all articles. You should have this stuff in your watchlist to be able to see this... terror...

No, I don't take Japanese class. I said, I learned some by watching anime with subtitles and reading some manga. But that was enough to notice the mistake.

Yume no Kishi 01:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

At least know there is someone who believes us! I won't be giving up the fight, because I just cant. It is not logical to use a mistranslated word. Using a watchlist isnt all that helpful to me. I just look at the history all the time.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

From the BK article:

"The Blue Knight's name is unchanged in Mew Mew Power, and in Mew Mew: Amiche Vincenti is known as Cavaliere Blu."

...^_^;;; Actually, his name is translated in both cases, as it was originally in Japanese (unless this statement refers to the English manga).

Yume no Kishi 19:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

His name in the anime is derived from the english word. It not written in hiragana or kanji, so it isn't techically translating.

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wha...? Since when is "Ao no Kishi" derived from the English word and is not written in kanji? (You didn't mix him with Deep Blue, did you?) I mean, in the original version his name was in Japanese, but in the English version it was translated into English.


 * Tokyo Mew Mew Japanese manga and anime: 蒼の騎士 Ao no Kishi.


 * Mew Mew Power and Tokyopop manga: The Blue Knight (English translation of Ao no Kishi).


 * Mew Mew: Amiche Vincenti: Cavaliere Blu (Italian translation of Ao no Kishi).


 * Is it clear now? The statement above is correct if it refers to the English manga (which seems to be the case), but it kinda gives the impression that he was called "Blue Knight" (i.e. ブルー・ナイト) in the Japanese manga and anime. Yes, I know that his Japanese name is written in the article, too, but I'm talking about that particular line at the beginning.


 * If the statement refers just to the meaning of his name, then it is really inaccurate. Both "the Blue Knight" and "Cavaliere Blu" are translations of "Ao no Kishi", so technically in both cases the meaning of his name is unchanged, it's only translated into English/Italian.


 * To make it even more clear, Deep Blue's name is really left unchanged in the English version, for it was originally in English (ディープ・ブルー is simply the katakana for "Deep Blue"). In the Italian version it was simply translated into Italian, so again, it is technically unchanged (its meaning). I think better say "translated into Italian", and in case of the BK, also "translated into English".


 * "The Blue Knight's Japanese name is simply translated into English in both Mew Mew Power and Tokyopop's manga, and is translated into Italian as "Cavaliere Blu" in Mew Mew: Amiche Vincenti." - way better.


 * ...you really need to get the original anime somewhere... or even better, the original manga... reading Tokyopop's translations doesn't do you good...


 * "(You didn't mix him with Deep Blue, did you?)" Yep...at the time I was mainly think on how to improve Deep Blue's article, so I saw the word "blue" then i saw "deep blue" so... &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Still can't fully translate the Saint Rose Crusaders' kanji: the second and the third I really haven't seen before.


 * 聖 - saint, holy


 * 薔 - ???


 * 薇 - ???


 * 騎 - equestrian


 * 士 - gentleman, samurai (this kanji combines with the previous one - it's "knight", like in "Ao no Kishi")


 * 団 - group, association


 * I rewatched episode 38 - yes, the Mews do use "Mew Power Extension" there.


 * Yume no Kishi 10:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Using the google translator, the whole thing translates to "Saintly rose horseman group" (shocking it translated it at all). IT couldnt translate the kanji you dont knoew, and I dont know any of those kanji. I dont know how it could translate the whole thing.

OK, here you go for the translation of the kanjis for "Saint Rose Crusaders":

It's 聖薔薇騎士団, kanji-by-kanji:


 * 聖 - sei (Saint, St.)
 * 薔薇 - bara, shoubi (rose)
 * 騎士 - kishi (knight)
 * 団 - dan (group, troupe)

So, it's either Sei-bara kishi dan or Sei-shoubi kishi dan, and both would mean St. rose knights group or St. rose knights troupe. - OBrasilo 02:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info, OBrasilo! (So, it was "rose"... no wonder that I didn't know these kanji, the Japanese usually write the word "bara" in katakana... and while I had an idea that they had something to do with "rose", since both kanji have "grass/plant" in them, I just couldn't confirm it...)


 * Should this thing be added to their article?




 * Fixed the BK's name in his article. Now to other things...


 * From Deep Blue's article:


 * "When Kish tries to steal Masaya's spirit, it doesn't work and Masaya transforms. He doesn't turn into the Blue Knight, but goes ballistic and turns into Deep Blue."


 * Technically, he first transforms into the BK, and then into DB. And his transformation into the BK was apparently caused by Mew Ichigo's arrival.




 * Still have to say something about "ribbon/reborn".


 * While it is possible that "reborn" was intended to be a pun on the word "ribbon" (though the Mews don't use ribbons in their attacks; in case of Sailor Saturn the pun was obvious), this thing will work well only in the original manga, and probably in the anime. The words still sound kinda similar, and the difference between the katakana for the two words is only a ー chōon, so if you are reading the original manga, you can easily come to the conclusion that it may be a pun. The English words "ribbon" and "reborn" don't seem to look very similar (or at least I think so).


 * Yume no Kishi

Mint's dog:

Don't know why fansubs call him "Miki", because in the manga his name is written with that double consonant thing (small "tsu"), like ミッキ Mikki, so it does seem to be "Mickey"...

Aoyama and the Mews:

Tired of changing their age in their articles. Is it so hard for some people to calculate the charactes' age judging by what grade they are in?

Gah, "Kirema Anima"... can somebody read the articles? "Kirema" isn't even a word!

That's what happens when someone believes Tokyopop too much...

Yume no Kishi

I'm almost certain they all come from red data forums..

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 05:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Moving off topic discussion here
This was originally at the Ojamajo Doremi talk page. I user said it would be best if I moved it here. This page now old, so I will be archieving it. so please do not edit contents of this page.---&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Why the...?! I was making new TMM userboxes, trying to get my mind off this thing, and now it's here again. Will this hell ever end?! Will people try to understand that "ribbon" is a mistake?!


 * ...Now I really wish I had never discovered this mistake...


 * Yume no Kishi 23:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Come on Yume! It was good that you found the mistake! Didn;t you say before that this same thing happened sailor moon, or some other magical girl anime? In general, new info almost always get shunned my the majority. This has repeated though out history. The guy who said the earth was round when others said it was flat. Please don't think that it wasn't a good thing to find the mistake!

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 03:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But they're right when they say that nobody uses "reborn"... there are only three or four people who use it...


 * Yume no Kishi


 * That would be applying only to non-Japanese. So, it would only be non-Japanese would have a problem with "reborn".

&quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 03:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Please note that this discussion is off topic, not realting to Ojamajo Doremi.

Should the Ojamajo Doremi page be merged with the Magical DoReMi page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.67.36.230 (talk) 02:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC).


 * If you read the previous Merge section on this talk page, the pages were merged and then split again. This article covers the series as a whole. Magical DoReMi covers the first series, which is the first quarter of the television series. There are separate articles for each of the other successive series. I don't think we need to merge them again. --Squilibob 03:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, wouldn't it make sense if that was done to the Tokyo Mew Mew section, too? (And maybe getting rid of all that false "reborn" garabage...)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.67.36.230 (talk) 14 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Tokyo Mew Mew was one series 52 episodes long. Ojamajo Doremi was a 4 series continuation with each series about 50 episodes each. I don't see the connection in that regard. --Squilibob 09:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It is NOT garbage. It is CLEAR, which is the correct translation. You are making yourself a clear example of fans who don't know the correct translation. It is also clear you can't know Japanese, and at the same time believe "ribbon" is correct. --"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 05:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I know lots of Japanese, and apparently you don't, because you think "Ribon" is "Reborn." Ever think that Sailor Saturn's attack might have been mistranslated? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.67.36.230 (talk) 14 January 2007 (UTC).


 * My Japanese teacher, who is a native speaker said it was "reborn" genius. See how dumb and ignorant that sounds? Saying that someone who asked their Japanese teacher about リボーン that is "reborn" is wrong? You are the one who dosn't know that much Japanese and the basis of writting English words in Katakana. Seriously, try saying リボーン then リボン MANY MANY TIMES to hear the difference since it is so hard to hear for you. Its really sad how you are trying to let people here believe リボーン is not "reborn" so that you can get someone on your side. --"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 22:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, so ONE PERSON who "knows Japanese" says it's "reborn," so of course everyone else who knows Japanese is wrong? Think about it. If you knew Tokyo Mew Mew for years, and EVERYONE says it's "ribbon," then-- how many, two?-- TWO people say "No, it's Reborn!" would YOU start going around going, "Well, two people said it's 'reborn,' so it must be true"? It's really sad how you are yelling at someone for using the term that the majority (as in, 99/100) of fans uses.

USE COMMON SENSE.....If someone who teaches Japanese to learners, would they be a native speaker or fluent in the language (in this case a native speaker)...then all native and fluent speakers would innevitably say its "reborn"... I guess dumb and ignorant is correct..Wow...You do not think that out at all..I guess I should have put emphsis on teacher...Now that is sad....I do know Tokyo Mew Mew for years, and did say its "ribbon"...Then I woke up and saw I was wrong. 99/100? I would say 98/100.

"would YOU start going around going, "Well, two people said it's 'reborn,' so it must be true"?

Actually, I would tell them リボーン is in the Japanese version of Tokyo Mew Mew, and its the katakana spelling of "reborn", not "ribbon" and tell them "ribbon" would be spelled リボン. I would then tell them to say "ribon" then "riboun" many times to hear the difference. I would also tell them that Tokyopop is known for not translating words correctly. To further prove it is "reborn", I would show them Katekyo Hitman Reborn!, then introduce them to my teacher, who would then tell them herself that リボーン is "reborn". I would tell them in a ciivlized manner, especially if they did not know alot of Japanese or none. But, if they tried hard to prove the incorrect translation is correct, saying they know Japanese and such, then I would get annoyed; in other words someone acting similar to you, then I would get pissy and get aggresive verbally.

Now what is more sad? Trying to persuade people at an unleated article of Tokyo Mew Mew, to see the "reborn" explaination who would probaly end up deleting it, not useing common sense, saying the person doesnt know Japanese, when they have written in Japanese on some articles of Tokyo Mew Mew, or someone who is stopping that person from doing so that people who see this discard as a discussion between people and not relevant to Ojamajo Roremi, and has written proof that it is "reborn"?--"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 03:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Please, this isn't the place to discuss Tokyo Mew Mew. Discuss it on Talk:Tokyo Mew Mew. --Squilibob 00:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I know, but I'm tryin to explain it to this person, since he or she tried to get people here to believe "reborn" is incorrect, to get people here on his or her side to remove the "reborn" thing (I've been in a situation like this before). "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 03:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

edit: I'll leave a note saying this discussion is off-topic. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 14:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Squilibob, should I move most of this discussion to Tokyo Mew Mew? Is pretty ovbious it way off topic. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 01:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

HMM...
This should really be modeled after Sailor Moon (manga). Some infomation about Tokyopop's version sshould be here, along with Chaung Yi's verison (whenever I find info). Can anyone think of other Magical Girl mangas that have an anime adaptation? I'm using Sailor Moon as a template because TMM is very similar to it, and its the only Magical Girl article that is GA status. THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 18:17, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * For goodness' sake, SM's story is much longer than TMM (consists of 5 stories) - that's the only reason why it got a separate manga article (not counting the fact that the difference between the two versions of SM is much bigger than in TMM).


 * Until such time the information is too much, this can easily fit into the main article, or the lists, or the individual episode articles, or the English adaptations article. The fact that SM has a separate article is due to the fact that the information is too much for the main article. (See WP:LENGTH). Seems like most of the information in the SM list is like that I have in mind to add to the list of media article. G.A.S 18:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm leaving the stuff here until I feel like puttin it back into the main article. Still formatting the main article, and rewriting it. THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 19:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have re-inserted the content you inserted and then undid. This is not an approval of the article yet, as I think a lot of it can quite nicely go into the main article, the list, or the English adaptations article. (Refer WP:Anime)*
 * * Although Sailor Moon is a good article, good means it is still lacking in criteria that keeps it from becoming a featured article. WP:Anime sets that criteria.
 * Regards, G.A.S 14:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Stub or no?
Someone clasified this as a stub and then someone removed the stub tag thing from the artice. So, is it a stub or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.224.38.207 (talk) 02:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

well, al la mode is only 2 volumes, but at the same time, its rated as a stub. I'll go add the stub tag "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 22:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Why would the length of the series affect this? I'm talking about the article.

Reception
Fixed the Reception section. ~MewFushi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.124.226.178 (talk) 23:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

you "fixed" it when i was still in the process of adding to the reception section, so i could have seen it, as i still considered i was not done with it &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 09:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. I thought there was something wrong with it. :( ~MewFushi

Its ok. I always leave an edit like that for a while, then come back to it. Its just how a edit stuff. No big deal. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 01:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That "reception" section is biased, weasel-worded original research just like your "critisism" section on Berry Shirayuki. --Candy-Panda 03:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If there is anything that contains OR, it'll be soon or later removed by admins, so you don't have to remove it yourself... Yume no Kishi

That is what annoys me most. You are not an admin, so you don't remove entire sections w/o consensus, an you dont have the manga, so you cant go assuming its all OR. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Every word of the reception section is true, a la mode sucks, but bashing is always deleted, every single time. It's sad, really. Sana Jisushi 20:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge?
There doesn't seem to be much information here, not enough to make an article. I'm going to make a page called "Minor Characters in Tokyo Black Cat Girl" at some point, and when I do, we should probably merge this into it. -- MessengerCrow13 ~Listen*To*Your*Heart*Beat~ *talk*contributions* 16:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I've read tokyo black cat girl, and there isn't that much info about the bakus. I seems to have more info about azumi only. "Minor Characters in Tokyo Black Cat Girl" would be best, then noda, the other masha could go to that article also. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Yea, that's what I'm planning: a page with a section for Noda one for Masha, and one for the Bakus. I'm still discussing this with the person who created the Bakus page, though, so we might decide to keep this page. If we do, I'll probably forget the "Minor Characters" page and just put Noda and Masha's profiles on Tokyo Black Cat Girl. -- MessengerCrow13 ~Listen*To*Your*Heart*Beat~ *talk*contributions* 16:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Not a pun
It's highly unlikely that Baku is a pun on the Japanese word Baka, considering in the original Japanese manga they were referred to as Bagu. If this is met with disbelief I can provide a scan. --Kiwi 15:53, 13 Feb 2007 (UTC)

I'm not surprised that Tokyopop made this error. But, It would be good to make a little section about Tokyopop's error and upload the manga scan to show proof. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 23:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Please read this. You will need to move this back to Baku (Tokyo Black Cat Girl), unless there is an alternate official English translation of the manga that uses "Bagu".


 * I missed the moment when the page was moved... >.< Angelofdeath275 tends to be bold... there wasn't even any discussion about whether or not the page should be renamed... 夢の騎士 Yume no Kishi - Talk 00:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)