Talk:Tom Barry (Irish republican)

IRA Abwehr WW2
Hello, Barry had liasons with German intelligence leading to the "barry plan". Some details IRA Abwehr World War II Fluffy999 18:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * 1 year later still not in the article? Details on Nazi links are here and Barry Plan/S-Plan dispute -> Fluffy999 20:44, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Kilmichael Ambush
I added some more pictures that I took from Crossbarry and Kilmichael last month. Kilmichael defintely deserves its own article. The controversy that Peter Hart has created about it is exceptional even for Irish history debates. It has been raging for years with Brian Murphy, Peter Hart and of course Meda Ryan three of the chief parties to it. Indymedia is riddled with this often nasty debate. These letters from History Ireland might give some idea as to who is winning/has won(?) this: http://www.historyireland.com/magazine/features/13.5FeatC.html El Gringo 15:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Birthplace
Meda Ryan in her book Tom Barry - IRA Freedom Fighter states that Tom Barry was born in Killorglin, Co. Kerry and in fact did not move with his family to his parent's native Rosscarbery, Co. Cork until he was 10 years old. Yet this Wikipedia entry states he was born in Rosscarbery and most people I have spoken to believe that this is the case. In his own book Guerilla Days in Ireland Barry does not deal with his early life and starts the story during his service in Mesopotamia (Iraq)? Can anyone verify the truth of the situation regarding his birthplace? Coolavokig 18:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know exactly when the family moved back to Rosscarbery, but the 1911 census record for the Barry family (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Rosscarbery/Fair_Lane/381092/ ) shows his place of birth as Kerry. The youngest child is shown as born in Cork and the second-youngest, aged three, is shown as born in Kerry. Since Tom was born in 1897, this would confirm Meda Ryan's information that he lived in Kerry until he was ten. Incidentally, he was the second in a family of eight - four boys and four girls. His father's name was Thomas and his mother was Margaret Mary. His full name was Thomas Bernadine. The family lived in No 2, Fair Lane. 17:53, 11 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scartboy (talk • contribs)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tom barry gdii.jpg
Image:Tom barry gdii.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 23:20, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tom barry gdii.jpg
Image:Tom barry gdii.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 16:09, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tom barry gdii.jpg
Image:Tom barry gdii.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Removal of song for copyright and other reasons
I've removed the text of the song written by Bobby Sands in memory of Tom Barry, for two reasons. The first reason is copyright: the source provided (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/hstrike/sands/sands81.htm) clearly states that (emphasis mine):
 * "These extracts are included on the CAIN site by permission of the publishers. You may not edit, adapt, or redistribute changed versions of this for other than your personal use without the express written permission of the publishers, Sinn Féin Publicity Department. Redistribution for commercial purposes is not permitted."

Secondly, it is debatable whether encyclopaedia articles should contain complete texts of songs written in people's honour. WP:NOT suggests that Wikisource is the place for complete source texts. For example, there is an article about the song Christ the Lord Is Risen Today on Wikipedia, while the text of the song itself is on Wikisource.--Damac (talk) 20:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Kerryman / Corkman
Regardless of the birthplace comments listed above, the article is confusing as it stands. It starts with him being born in Kerry, but then says "returned to Cork" without having stated the move there in the first place. As he is always considered a Corkman, (as the Collins quote shows) there needs to be some mention of the transition between counties to make the article flow better. As a stop-gap I have added a brief sentence, but don't know enough about the subject to fill out the section.--Dmol (talk) 22:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The 1901 census records the family as "Residents of a house 35 in Langford (Killorglin, Kerry)". Tom is 3 years old. So some time in the next 10 years, it would appear they moved to Cork. RashersTierney (talk) 00:18, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

50th Anniversary meeting of former enemies.
Many years ago I remember seeing an article that said Tom Barry met with the former head of the British forces in the area on the 50th anniversary of the Kilmichael ambush, but I can't find details to add now. Has anyone got details to add, as it seems worthy of inclusion if properly referenced.--Dmol (talk) 23:54, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Tom Barry and "The Wind that Shakes the Barley"
My uncle, Daniel O'Connor, was born near Bandon, Cork around which Tom Barry's flying column had many actions against the Essex Black and Tans. In the action that occurred at Kilmartin, Barry's flying column engaged the Auxiliaries not the Tans. The Auxiliary cadets, as they were known, were neither auxiliary's nor cadets. The Auxiliary was composed of experienced British WW1 veteran officers who engaged in terrorism. They were the British Army's best of the best. They burned farms, shot farmers in their fields, assaulted women and executed males as young as 12. Please read Barry's excellent biography for reference.

The name cadets was deliberately assigned to them by the British to give the impression their company were composed of young and inexperienced volunteers. Listening to the producer and the historian from University College Cork (which can optionally be heard on the DVD while the film plays) there are numerous atrocities which may be attributed to them.

The role of Teddy was a composite and there is a character in The Wind that Shakes the Barley which depicts Barry. Thus the film's Teddy does not depict Tom Barry. There were O'Sullivan brothers who fought with Barry. Though, I do not suggest that they were the brothers depicted in the film. From my uncle's recollections, I knew all the events depicted in the movie were accurate. However the characters could not be attributed on any single individual. They were composites.

It would be good research for the author to review, a seminal work on the Irish War of Independence "On Another Man's Wound" by IRA commander, Ernie O'Malley. Of note, two of Ernie's brothers were British officers, killed fighting in for the UK government. Most Americans studying the war are unaware that many of the IRA commanders were British Army trained and many had relatives fighting for the British during the first world war. Such was my families case. (Worse yet most Americans are unaware that 6 of the 8 or so Republic leaders over the centuries were Protestants.)

Barry's Germany discussions never could have went beyond preliminary stages. Neither arms nor ammo were provided to the Irish. So there isn't much to hang an accusation on the IRA for their actions in WW2 or their collusion with the Germans.

I request a bit more investigation, research and review be performed and that this description of Barry, be rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.162.45 (talk) 15:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Mention of bias in Guerilla Days in Ireland
Tom Barry seems to be ignorant of how the British empire fell in his memoir. In chapter 15, he states "people never got an iota of freedom from the British Imperialist without killing British troops", completely ignoring the non-violent Indian independence movement. Unless Mr. Barry was not including Hindus and Muslims as people subjugated by the British, or believed the rare outbursts of violence by Indians to have helped achieve independence (which Gandhi would certainly have disagreed with) his false analysis of history would seem to deserve a mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Secretkeeper12 (talk • contribs) 04:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Merging sections
I have decided to merge "After World War II", "Memoir" and "Death" into one whole section as I believe the latter two are too short to be their own sections. Earle Bartibus Huxley (talk) 21:34, 9 December 2021 (UTC)