Talk:Tom Cribb

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A search on the internet suggests the widely accepted dates for the fights between Cribb and Molineaux are 1810 and 1811. These dates are reported by, among others, the International Boxing Hall of Fame, the National Portrait Gallery. Average Earthman 18:04, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

He then fought a black American, former slave Tom Molineaux, to become world champion – a defeat he repeated in 1811. Should this not be a victory he repeated as the winner (Cribb) is the subject of the article? Thryduulf 02:29, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with that. Average Earthman 09:36, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, I've changed the article now. Thryduulf 09:47, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Vs Tom Molineaux ?!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.246.254 (talk) 19:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The piece about his fight vs Molineaux is very badly written and is hard to make sense of it. Here it is written as
 * "Cribb beat Molineaux in 35 rounds and became World champion. This victory was achieved through controversy though, as Cribb was clearly outclassed by the American,being humiliated round after round until he was easily defeated. This caused a riot to ensue and a mob soon descended on the ring swiftly attacking Molineaux and his black trainer. They broke his hand, six ribs and left him badly battered all over; only then did they restart the match. Molineaux fought on bravely only to be finally defeated eleven rounds later. This would become one of the most disputed results in the history of boxing."


 * On Tom Molineaux page the same fight is described as...
 * "According to the writer Pierce Egan, who was present, Molineaux stood five foot eight and a quarter inches tall, and for this fight weighed "fourteen stone two" (198 pounds (90 kg)).[1] Egan wrote that few people, including Cribb, expected the fight to last very long; there was betting that Cribb would win in the first ten rounds.[1] However, Molineaux proved a powerful and intelligent fighter and the two battered each other heavily. There was a disturbance in the nineteenth round as Molineaux and Cribb were locked in a wrestler's hold (legal under the rules of the time) so that neither could hit the other nor escape. The referee stood by, uncertain as to whether he should break the two apart, and the dissatisfied crowd pushed into the ring. In the confusion Molineaux hurt his left hand; Egan could not tell if it had been broken.[1] There was also dispute over whether Cribb had managed to return to the line before the allowed thirty seconds had passed. If he had not, Molineaux would have won, but in the confusion the referee could not tell and the fight went on. After the 34th round Molineaux said he could not continue[1] but his second persuaded him to return to the ring, where he was defeated in the 35th round."


 * Basically Cribbs page seems to offer a jumbled break down of the info described on Toms page. On Cribbs page he is described as 'clearly outclassed' while on Molineaux page it is Molineaux  who is teh underdog and not expectd to last 10 rounds. Surely both cant be the underdog?DarkMithras 2011
 * I've deleted it. Completely unreferenced. Sources suggest the fight was close, dirty and disputed- hence the rematch, but the stuff about TC being outclassed are not supported by any contemporary source.Tigerboy1966 (talk) 16:08, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Barclay
The link to Barclay seems to be to another Robert Barclay entirely. Should be either corrected or the link removed. Epeeist smudge 08:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

"World champion"
Are there any contemporary sources calling him "world champion"? It seems like a rather anachronistic claim for a time when professional boxing wasn't organized on any global scale. The claim is currently unsourced. --Hegvald (talk) 06:52, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Various alterations
I've made a few changes to the text…

The article used to mention different points at which Cribb became English champion, British champion and World champion. However, back in Cribb’s day, only one title existed - English Champion. I’ve therefore removed the references to the British and World championships. It's obviously tempting to think that the Cribb vs Molineux fights were for the world championship, but since no such title existed the claim is clearly dubious. I cannot see any reference in any of the contemporary literature to back up the claim. (See also, the previous comment above by Hegvald.)

There is currently a gap in the narrative of Cribb’s career where no mention is made to the fights Cribb fought between Cribb-Nicholls and Cribb-Belcher 1. I will add some info to cover these fights at a later date.

I've also added mention of Cribb’s defence of his title against Jem Belcher (i.e. his second fight vs Belcher) and added some citations to Pugilistica where the original reports for Cribb’s fights can be read as well as all of the other relevant supporting info (all three volumes of Pugilstica can be viewed at Archive.org).

At present the article only gives minimal details of Cribb’s fights (date/place/opponent/result, and sometimes rounds). The article would probably benefit from some added colour from contemporary sources. I'll see if I can find some quotes to flesh things out.

The text stated that Cribb retired in 1812. Cribb was actually champion until 1821 - by which time he had been 10 years without a challenger. However, reference to (for example) Boxiana, Pugilistica, etc. makes it clear that he was considered champion throughout this period and eventually vacated the title. I have changed this to reflect the correct situation.

With regard to the section ‘After retirement’, I seem to recall that Cribb was engaged in some (all?) of the activities listed prior to his retirement in 1821. I will investigate in the contemporary sources and change if necessary.

I’ve also removed several unnecessary links in the text to ‘English’, ‘publican’, ‘legend’ and ‘shopping mall’. Axad12 (talk) 06:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Cribb's retirement
I added an exact date (15th May 1822) for Cribb's retirement, taken from Fistiana (1841 p56) and Pugilistica vol 1 (1906 p271). Added references accordingly and the relevant page of Fistiana as a external link. Axad12 (talk) 14:20, 15 March 2023 (UTC)