Talk:Tom Jones (singer)/Archive 1

Bias
The beginning of the article claims not only has Tom Jones sold "70 million records" world wide but also has "a powerful voice." Unless someone can prove this by citing reliable sources I will remove it and suggest we replace his number of records sold with a far more realistic number. Eatspie (talk) 00:04, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind Wikipedia is for factual information, not opinions. Eatspie (talk) 00:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

A more realistic number would be 140 million records. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.18.139 (talk) 17:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC) Tom Jones has sold ten million records over the last six decades! Roger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.188.15 (talk) 16:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Blue-eyed soul
Tom Jones has always been considered a blue-eyed soul singer for many decades, especially during his early career. In the 60s many that heard him on the radio assumed he was a black singer. Tropiwikian 22:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

OBE does not confer Knighthood
If Tom Jones is "only" an OBE, he cannot be referred to as Sir Tom Jones. Only the two highest ranks (CBE KCBE) entail admission into knighthood. Tom Jones is only an Officer of the British Empire, and therefore there is not "Sir" attached to his name. user:ber06122 17:04, 8 March 2006 (EST)


 * Being an OBE doesn't make one a Knight, but being a Knight Bachelor does. (And the two highest ranks in the Order are KBE and GBE, not CBE and KCBE, the former of which is the third highest rank and the latter of which doesn't exist.) Proteus (Talk) 22:38, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, you're right about the ranks. But the point is the same isn't it. We shouldn't be referring to him as "Sir Tom", right? I didn't want to change it without some sort of greater input. user:ber06122 17:48, 8 March 2006 (EST)

Tom Jones was awarded a Knighthood in the in the New Years Honours List this year. The investiture takes place at Buckingham Palace on 29th March 2006 - so maybe he should not officially be called 'Sir Tom' until then. He was awarded an OBE in 1999.

They'll knight anyone these days. If we're down to Tom this year, my goodness, in the next year or two or so, we'll end up knighting people like Jim Davidson. It's a tragedy!!


 * Just to clear things up, there was the same confusion with the Sir Alex Ferguson article (which I managed to sort out)- I have now edited this article and it is correct and should not be edited. He was created an OBE in 1999, which he still holds- and he was also awarded a knighthood in 2006, but that knighthood was not a KBE (KBE = Knight of the Order of the British Empire), it was a Knight Bachelor, which entitles the recipient to be titled Sir, but without any additional post-nominal letters, thus, he is correctly styled "Sir Thomas Jones Woodward, OBE".

Sir Tom is credited as holding a KBE at the head of the article when in fact he has on OBE. Perhaps this should be corrected?????

What's the hulabaloo all about?
Why is there a debate about "NON POV" ? What, is "strong and powerful voice" too subjective for the wikistewards? The guy's voice is amazing! I came to this Wiki because I knew Tom Jones sang Thunderball, and I learned that he was only 25 when he recorded it. Now that is amazing (and about racism, down below: that retort is hilarious). 128.119.236.34 04:22, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I second that. We're becoming overly sensitive. -Elp gr 14:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

WRT Mr. Jones' career slumping in the forties and fifties, how can that be if he was only born in 1940 and didn't rise to fame until the sixties? Maybe what was meant was seventies and eighties? Nohat 17:33, 2003 Sep 12 (UTC)

"During his forties and fifties" i.e. the 80s and 90s. Arwel 13:43, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In 1988, British heavy metal magazine Kerrang! ran a hoax story that Jones was joining heavy metal pioneers Black Sabbath. There was never any truth to this, but Sabbath leader Tony Iommi said that he would have liked to have had Jones sing on his 2000 eponymous solo album. Hmmmm. --MarshallStack 04:25, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Tom Jones middle name
Can anyone confirm Tom's middle name? I thought it was John, and plenty of web pages confirm that, but equally many have 'Jones' - but Jones as a middle name (rather than hyphenated last name) seems a little unlikely. Varitek 07:38, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It's not unusual (sorry got the pun) in Wales for people to have their mother's maiden surname as their second forename. My mother's middle name is Jones, too. I first heard his full name was "Thomas Jones Woodward" back in the '60s. -- Arwel 13:26, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The Ellis/Sutherland biography (from 2000) clearly states that his name is Thomas John Woodward. (E-Kartoffel 12:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC))

Many biographies state his name as Thomas John Woodward, and I've even found one that stated his name as Tom Woodward Junior. But his official website www.tomjones.com indicates his name as Thomas Jones Woodward. Seanna 22:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

BBC and National Portrait Gallery  gives Jones. Good enough for me. --Henrygb 09:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Tom Jones would like to forget that he was named after a film (that uses the story of Henry Fielding) that was released in 1963 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057590/). His backing band was accordingly renamed The Squires His real name is Thomas John Woodward (to shorten Thomas to Tom is not that unsual by the way) (E-Kartoffel (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2009 (UTC))


 * My link to Sir Tom Jones' original birth certificate http://tomjonesintl.com/2011/09/08/middle-john-jones-check-birth-certificate/ keeps being removed. There has been on-going problems with Sir Tom's middle name being either "Jones" or "John" and I consider that the above link (showing a copy of the birth certificate that I have in my possession) finally confirms his middle name as John. I would appreciate it if this link was restored. Someone has also ruined much of the article by inserting many links to tabloid-type articles that use the singer's wrong middle name Regards 81.105.49.183 (talk) 21:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:38, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Provided the certificate is properly referenced, any further source is superfluous. Yes, an image may seem to "prove it" in some way, but any image one finds on the internet may have been very cleverly photoshopped or adjusted in some other way to falsify something. And there is no way of knowing. A link to on-line BMD is generally perfectly trustworthy, but all that really needs to be added in this article is the reference number of the entry in the local Register. That said, the link you provide does indeed seem to be genuine and quite conclusive. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Singles
His discography seems only to list his UK hits, probably needs a bit of work done to include non-charting singles. I have a few sources for these, so I will get onto it shortly. Bonalaw 09:47, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think that he may have done a single with Steven Page of Barenaked Ladies called "Little Green Bag" I'm just wondering if on the album "Help Yourself" if a single was left out titled "Laura" or was that on another album but not listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.153.135 (talk) 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Racism
On the Kumars at No. 42, Tom Jones said that because of his curly hair, he was mistaken for an African American while in the United States and discriminated against. Fkh82 23:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * what does this have to do with anything? Is there a citation?  Do you mean to imply that Jones is racist?  Srcastic 00:26, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I don't know how that would make Jones a racist. Maybe you should read the sentence again slowly and try to understand it first Fkh82 20:35, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification - you didn't mean to imply Jones is a racist. I go back to my first point - what does this have to do with anything - it seems like a non-sequitur. Srcastic 06:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Seems blindingly obvious to anyone who can read that he/she wasn't trying to imply that Tom Jones is racist. As to what it has to do with anything - it seems to me to be an interesting anecdote about Tom Jones who is the subject of the article. Do you understand what a non-sequitur is? TurnerPrize 14:24, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * My interpretations: Tom Jones was merely pointing out the prejudices that existed in the American society; even if you " looked or had features " that were associated with African Americans, you too were discriminated against. - QzDaddy 14:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Tom has also stated in numerous interviews that when his first single hit the airwaves, people mistook him for being a black singer because of his voice. But this didn't have anything at all to do with prejudices, only that they said he sounded black. Tropiwikian 00:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh my God, add up the evidence, he must have some non- White ancestry, he has a dark complexion, wide nostrils, kinked hair and a black man's voice? You add it up.

82.9.29.195 09:40, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Dark complexion can be had through tanning (compare George Hamiltan). Wide nostrils are result of nose surgery (he had his schnozz bobbed). Kinked hair results from "permanent wave." Afro voice is easily imitated and is mimicked by many singers today (it is all the rage) See Michael Bolton, The Righteous Brothers, and other Blue-Eyed Soul performers]].Lestrade (talk) 18:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Lestrade


 * Let's face it, Tom's appearance is hardly that of a typical Celt or Anglo-Saxon. The area of Wales he came from is long settled by Somalis, so Tom may well have Somali blood in him. 86.166.124.232 (talk) 03:26, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Mr Jones' appearance is that of a typical Welsh person. Celts tend to have dark features. The Welsh have always looked Italian to me. Eligius (talk) 06:09, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * So many big issues, so many ip addresses - who do you think you are exactly? Who is disputing Jones' West Country ancestry? And where is any evidence? As for the garden-shed genetics, I wouldn't have thought that Sir Toms's nose was the best place to start. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:00, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Romany?
I have seen it claimed in the past that Tom is part-Romany. I have not seen a reliable source for this, but his complexion suggests that it is possible, I suppose. Does anyone have any more information on the claim?

He's a black, can't you see, or some kind of a mixed.

82.27.229.140 14:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Or perhaps he is only Welsh. Many Welsh resemble him (for instance, consider John Rhys-Davies); not all Celtic people are red-haired and green-eyed; in fact during the 19th century English stereotypes considered all Celts to be darker complexioned than Anglo-Saxons, or at least more likely to be. Shanoman (talk) 22:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

The part of Wales where Tom was born has long been settled by Somalis. 86.166.124.232 (talk) 03:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, let's just try and close the creaky door on that old garden shed, shall we? It's quite heavy, isn't it? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:12, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Knight Bachelor
My understanding is that conferral of a Knighthood Bachelor does not entitle the holder to a post-nominal except in cases of potential ambiguity, therefore this reference ought to be omitted. --Ross UK 21:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean this ref next to his name: Kt? This item is frequently submitted and omitted. Does it belong there or not? 65.3.230.241 16:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Carlton Dance
Someone should mention the Carleton Dance off of the Fresh Prince of Bel-air.

Cwmtillary
I assume this is a misspelling of a town(paragraph 3 music career) but I don't know the correct spelling BauerPower 19:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * this is the correct spelling. It comes up in Google as a valid place name in Wales. Rossrs 20:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks BauerPower 23:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Silly tidbits:
An impersonator appeared on a Summer 2005 episode of Clean Sweep. I hope Tom himself caught it.

At the end of each episode of his variery show, he was said to have announced: "Gwyn eich byd a dymunaf i chwi lawenydd bob amser." Meaning, "May you always be well and be happy."

Oh, he couldn't possibly have killed the music scene. It's still around.

Yeah but a lot worse because he's in it 66.66.161.1 20:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Discography
This section is fairly extensive. does anyone think it should it be moved to a separate article? riana 18:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree... Seanna 17:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Photo
I don't doubt that someone could not know Tom Jones but a photo of his would be nice

What genre?
First paragraph should include what genre(s) the artist can be categorized in. I don't know enough about his music to do this myself. Please assist. Kent Wang 15:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

What's New, Pussycat?
I have edited "Woody Allen's What's New Pussycat" to read simply "What's New Pussycat". Thought the script was written by Mr. Allen (who also plays a role), it was not directed by him.

It is not customary to attribute movies to the writer; the format "John Doe's Movie" usually implies that John Doe directed it. (Compare, for example, "Steven Spielberg's ET" versus "Melissa Mathison's ET".) MIP | Talk 12:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

His race
The Twelve Tribes of the Commonwealth of Israel's undisputed opinion of Tom Jones should be noted. I believe that listing this fact is paramount to keeping the neutral point of view that wikipedia holds so dear. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.239.192.91 (talk • contribs).


 * Here's the Wikipedia article for their religious movement: The Twelve Tribes (New religious movement). Graham 87 04:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Additionally, the group only has 2500 members. The neutral point of view policy says that viewpoints with extremely small minorities shouldn't be mentioned - 2500 people out of a world population of over 6 billion is quite a small minority. Graham 87 05:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Tiger! tiger! in the night!
What is the reason to omit the well-known and popular nick-name "Tiger" which is used for Tom Jones quite regularly? Why was it deleted? NPOV? Unsourced? Unimportant? Even German Wikipedia has an entry about this...


 * I've been watching this article since January 2006 and I don't remember that ever being in the article. If you want to you can add it - why did he get this nickname though? I don't know too much about him - the article is just on my watchlist because of some sneaky vandalism I fixed a while ago. Graham 87 13:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Split trousers
People keep removing my "split trouser" reference. Maybe its because they personally have not heard of it and hence don't believe it. I have been occasionally scouring the web for references and today happened upon this blog: http://buckleyontheblog.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html which came up in a google search. In it she mentions splitting her trousers and refers to Tom Jones doing the same. So its not just me! (I knew I hadn't imagined it). I shall keep searching for a definitive reference. Migglezimblatt 16:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

another reference: http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/dress-up/masks/pop-stars/tom-jones.html

Kelley Hardman
There is a reference at the end of the article to Tom having a lifelong grudge against this individual. Unless this can be verified, it should be removed. Maybe I'm an ignorant American, but I have no idea who Kelley Hardman is, and searches of wikipedia and google turn up nothing... 199.79.10.118 (talk) 18:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Working in a garden centre?
In the Personal Info section there is this statement: "Tom Jones also works for Countryside Nursery & Garden Center in Newark, Delaware." I don't believe this, can we have a citation please or take it out? Cathi M (talk) 02:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Chicane feat. Tom Jones - Stoned in Love (Club 12 mix).ogg
The image Image:Chicane feat. Tom Jones - Stoned in Love (Club 12 mix).ogg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

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 * File:Chicane feat. Tom Jones - Stoned in Love (Club 12 mix).ogg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --22:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Article was starting to sound like a Tom Jones promotion
I have deleted(and changed) a large amount of un-encyclopedic, POV content from the article. The article was starting to sound like an resume or promotion for Tom Jones.  Wacko Jack O   12:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

WHERE DOES HE LIVE NOW —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.1.82.93 (talk) 13:19, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Cymraeg
Does Jones speak Welsh? Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 02:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I have often wondered about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.129.65 (talk) 21:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Well the good old "Western Mail" tells us no (unearthed fact 26, but that statement by Alex Terrell simply cannot be literally true, can it?!) Martinevans123 (talk) 22:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Thomas John Woodward
Born Thomas JOHN Woodward - Please see An Entry of Birth, Registration District Pontypridd, Birth in the Sub District of Pontypridd in the County of Glamorgan held in Pontypridd Register Office, Courthouse Street, Pontypridd, Mid Glamorgan, CF37 1JS82.3.30.226 (talk) 13:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Stand in for P.J.Proby
Tom Jones first came into the public eye when he was asked on at least one occasion and maybe more to stand in for P.J.Proby who was unrelaible at times in showing up for performance. Is this not true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.47.145 (talk) 14:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently yes, in January 1965, when Proby's trousers split (twice!) . And this might well deserve a mention. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 92.233.121.180, 5 November 2010
edit semi-protected

his birthday has been changed to the wrong date to match up with a question on a tv quiz show, check it :) 92.233.121.180 (talk) 22:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * His date of birth is the 7th June 1940 and it has been corrected (AdamD123 (talk) 23:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC))


 * His date of birth has been corrected. Anemone  Projectors  23:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 194.46.251.241, 5 November 2010
Edit semi-protected

Tom Jones is 51, duh! Dont you guys watch Channel 4? Davina is the best!!194.46.251.241 (talk) 23:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, Tom Jones is 70 (AdamD123 (talk) 23:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC))


 * Not done. Tom Jones is 70. Anemone  Projectors  23:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from TheBubler2010, 6 November 2010
I have found a reliable source stating that his date of birth is 1940 if you would like to use it

–TheBubler2010 (talk) 14:34, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I don't think it's really necessary though. I think the article has references for it, just not placed at the very start of the article. --Stickee (talk)  15:00, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 78.145.56.206, 10 November 2010
Tom Jones is 52!

78.145.56.206 (talk) 18:36, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The evidence is against you. Rodhull  andemu  18:39, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

The Website for real estate agents Redfin indicates that the house in LA (363 Copa De Oro Road) sold on 9 November 2010 for $10.5 87.113.254.144 (talk) 23:17, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * $10.5, wow that's cheap! wish i had known!! 2601:19C:527F:A660:4D75:817F:6D0F:6D51 (talk) 00:11, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

'Long-lost' son
I removed "long-lost" son because although it's true the source uses it I feel it's confusing as it's not like he wasn't aware of his son or had no idea where he was. He simply denied paternity. Nil Einne (talk) 18:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)