Talk:Tom Kahn

Expansion
I suggest the following areas for expansion: Please volunteer to help with a section (or with organizing references ...). IMHO, most readers are very well served by Horowitz's biography, and so there is no need for me to devote much efforts in the next months to expansion. Therefore, help is needed! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Civil rights movement
Anybody interested in the civil rights movement can probably find a lot of material on Kahn in books about Bayard Rustin.

March on Washington
It would be useful to discuss Kahn's memo (following discussions with Hill, Horowitz, Rustin) proposing the 1963 March on Washington, as well as earlier actions. It would be good to discuss A. Philip Randolph's speech (ghost written by Kahn), using accounts in newspapers, magazines, and biographies of Randolph.

From protest to politics
This is an important document in American political history, imho.

Freedom budget
Maybe this is discussed in the biographies of Randolph, Rustin, Martin Luther King, and Michael Harrington?

League for Industrial Democracy and Students for a Democratic Society
This would be very hard to write, because of Harrington, Horowitz, and Kahn were often described as the old anti-communists who were mean to Tom Hayden. I think Gitlin's book is balanced (and he has acknowledged that the concerns of Harrington and Kahn were proved right on many issues). Has SDS founder Steve Max (now of the Midwest Academy) written anything about Kahn?

I think that Isserman's biography of Harrington mentions Norman Thomas being disappointed with the SLID versus SDS, at least in the early-mid 1960s.

Split of the Socialist Party
This was a traumatic event for Kahn and others, and its importance has been exaggerated imho by the many poorly sourced partisan accounts. This event should have a very carefully referenced and small section, which probably should solicit reviews from editors of diverse political viewpoints, per WP:NPOV. 23:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)~

Democratic Party
This is less exciting for me. Maybe somebody could collect some good links and references about Jackson, Humphrey, etc.?

George Meany
There is a mention of a George Meany speech that has gay-baiting, that Jack Newfield's autobiography attributes (with a nasty smear about Kahn's sexuality) to Kahn, following Michael Harrington's bar-room tip; Isserman's biography of Kahn repeats this charge, citing a published version of the speech. Examining this speech, Horowitz criticizes Isserman's scholarship (even Homer nods!); Horowitz concludes that Kahn wouldn't have written such a speech, and notes that at least 2-3 other speech writers were the probable ghost authors. Maybe a biography of Meany has more discussion? Isserman identifies himself as a DSA member who was called by the DSA office on the day of MH's death, so he doesn't strike me as more independent than Horowitz. Somebody should examine the document cited by Horowitz and Isserman alike, and be careful, because Horowitz and Isserman strike me as very scrupulous and honest!

AFL-CIO
This is the best section of the article. I try to let the quotes speak for themselves. Perhaps I have quoted too much, at risk of violating copyright? Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Conspiracy theories
I sympathize more with Kahn than with the New Leftists who accuse the AFL-CIO of being running dogs of American Imperialism, or the right/left conspiracy-theorists who blame Shachtmanites (implicitly or explictly "Jews"---like Kahn, Penn Kemble, and Michael Harrington, Bogdan Denitch, etc.!) for the adventures of the Bush administration. Maybe one can mention a reputable source discussing such junk. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Conversations with Irving Howe
Irving Howe (for example Todd Gitlin) have interesting comments on Kahn, Rachelle Horowitz, Michael Harrington, etc. Gitlin acknowledges that Kahn was right about e.g. membership being needed for SDS (against everybody else, who removed a requirement in 1965), and that he interviewed Kahn around 1985 and Kahn gave an interesting analysis of why he reacted so strongly against the Port Huron Statement's criticisms of labor unions (i.e., that he was tempted by the same position, about to change from civil-rights to AFL-CIO/Democratic Party work). Howe makes a number of obviously true judgments about Kahn's personality and intelligence. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 01:01, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Politics and the Intellectual: Conversations with Irving Howe John Rodden Ethan Goffman format:                     Paperback publisher:                     Purdue University Press pub. date:                     06/30/2010 page count:                     376pp series:                     Shofar Supplements in Jewish Studies ISBN 13:                     9781557535511

Hayden's Reunion
In his reunion memoir, Hayden p. 88 acknowledges viewing Kahn as a "wimp" because of his primitive state in 1964, and having a phobia against meeting at Bayard Rustin's apartment, which had a lot of clocks. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 01:06, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Magazines
This memoir has several sections giving personal accounts of Kahn:



Perhaps it could be given as further reading or as an external link. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Dissent:
Dissent published the following articles by Kahn, listed from latest to earliest: This list may be helpful to other editors. The articles are available for purchase at Dissent's Archives. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:27, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Where Is the Negro Movement Now?       (November 1968)
 * The Riots and the Radicals       (September 1967)
 * On Participatory Democracy Comments       (March 1967)
 * A Report on the LID       (March 1966)
 * Direct Action and Democratic Values       (January 1966)
 * The Ambiguous Legacy of Malcolm X       (April 1965
 * Problems of the Negro Movement       (January 1964)
 * The Power of the March-and After       (September 1963)
 * The Idea of Revolution       (April 1961)

Comments from talk page
I asked User:Carrite to consider doing a review of this article (for good-article status). Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:46, 24 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Specific comments:
 * 1. Congrats on getting the pictures; that was a big defect before.
 * 2. I really don't like "quote stacking." "One fact, one footnote" should be the slogan. If there are multiple angles to a fact, feel free to elaborate in the footnote itself, mentioning and citing multiple sources — but there should be only one footnote showing, in my opinion. Pick your best for each.
 * 3. I REALLY hate splitting up Footnotes into Notes + References. Footnotes should be sufficiently elaborate, mentioning all publication data at first use of each source, and any additional sources should be in Further Reading. This, of course, a matter of style about which honest people may differ. I've seen other people use the system you use, I just don't like it.
 * This is easily a GA, but the system is inherently subjective and bureaucratic, so don't stress too much if somebody differs.
 * Carrite (talk) 02:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Carrite and others:
 * Thanks for the feedback and kind words.
 * Regarding (2) "quote stacking": I have tried to cite an alternative source for Rachelle Horowitz, because she wrote her (extremely carefully written and well documented) article as a memorial to her friend, Kahn. I have tried to provide WP readers with an alternative source, every time I have cited Horowitz. I have found no place where Horowitz has made any errors, btw.  Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Regarding (3), we may have an irreconcilable difference. I favor the scientific tradition of having publication details at the end of the article for all. However, that would obscure the most important sources. Thus, like many WP articles, this article has a mixed style, with (sometimes abbreviated) publication details the first time a source is given.
 * Thanks again for the feedback. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Tom Kahn. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110303170633/http://www.socialdemocratsusa.org:80/oldsite/Kahn.html to http://www.socialdemocratsusa.org/oldsite/Kahn.html

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 23:49, 25 February 2016 (UTC)