Talk:Tom Simpson/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 16:20, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I'll be glad to take this one; I apologize that you've had to wait so long for a reviewer. I hope to post initial comments in the next 1-5 days. Thanks in advance for all your work on it! -- Khazar2 (talk) 16:20, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for accepting. It was worth the wait to get an experienced reviewer! BaldBoris 14:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

I haven't made very far in yet, but so far so good. It looks like you've done a good job both writing and sourcing this. A few small points as I go along: -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:08, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is far too trivial to affect the article's GA status, but the varying punctuation in "Bordeaux–Paris" and "Milan – San Remo" is slightly distracting. I see that the target articles do this in varying ways, but perhaps one of these links could be piped to maintain this article's consistency in style.
 * Totally agree with you. The issue is with Milan – San Remo, the rest have no spaces. See Talk:Milan – San Remo. BaldBoris 14:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "this lad with shock of hair thundering up the hill past me" -- is there a word missing here? ("a" shock of hair?)
 * ✅ BaldBoris 14:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "as a strategic move favouring Sheil" -- I don't quite understand what this means. Are he and Sheil on the same team? Or is Simpson's manager deliberately throwing the race so that Sheil can win for another team?
 * This was changed during the copyedit. Simpson was forced to race to make Dalton race and tire. BaldBoris 14:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "His last words to his mother were" -- is this literally the last time he ever spoke to his mother? -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:08, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The last words spoken before his move. BaldBoris 14:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the responses, and sorry I've been slow in completing the review; our Internet's out and I'm catching up at coffee shops. More soon, though-- Khazar2 (talk) 14:37, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I took out "squared his shoulders" and "threw caution to the winds" per WP:IDIOM (part of criterion 1b)--let me know if my substitutions catch your meaning. Stepping away from the keyboard again, but hope to finish later today. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:59, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I notice I get a mediawiki error message often when I try to save an edit to this page. I suspect this is due to the high number of templates on the page (300 or so references, plus all the distance conversion templates). It's probably not worth fixing in this one, but if you tackle another article of this length, you might consider just doing manual references ("Smith 2000, p. 10" etc.).
 * "Motto gave him part of his food, " - I assume this should be Motta? That's a classy competitor to feed his opponent
 * ✅ BaldBoris 21:45, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "1966: Curse of the rainbow jersey" -- this subheader isn't really explained by the text--did Simpson believe the rainbow jersey brought him bad luck? Is the rainbow jersey said to be bad luck generally?
 * It's in general. There's even a book on it. I've added text, please check it for grammar. BaldBoris 02:37, 16 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "Simpson 2007, p. 12–13. " -- should this be 2009? It doesn't link to a citation
 * ✅ BaldBoris 21:45, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The citations pointing to "Williams, Nicola; Le Nevez, Catherine (2007)" need their years made consistent for the links to work
 * ✅ BaldBoris 21:45, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't see any neutrality problems with the article's current state, but still need to do more thorough source check.
 * I tried real hard not be, but I'm a fan, so it's inevitable. I could have gone to town on the doping. BaldBoris 02:37, 16 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about using a documentary as a reliable source. It counts as published, but I'm not sure how to evaluate whether it has "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". Any thoughts? We can always ask at WP:RS/N.
 * I'm not too sure. I went off the fact that it's mentioned at Help:Citation Style 1. BaldBoris 02:37, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Never mind--doublechecking the specific statements the documentary supports, there's nothing controversial that would need a reliable source per criterion 2b anyway. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:12, 16 November 2013 (UTC)


 * No problems with stability.

Let me know your thoughts on the above; I'll get into a nitty-gritty source check later tonight or tomorrow. And thanks again for your work on this; he's been an interesting figure to learn about. -- Khazar2 (talk) 21:28, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * What's the rules on reference number order? I've looked before but never found any info on it. An editor done it here in September, but i reverted it because I was unsure about it. I have ordered them as they cite in the text (I hope that makes sense). BaldBoris 02:37, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hm. I've been told before that they're supposed to appear in numerical order, but I can't immediately confirm that myself from the MOS. I'll leave any further examples unchanged, and feel free to revert those I have changed if you prefer the other approach. Sorry about that. -- Khazar2 (talk) 11:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Sidwells|2000|pp=130–125 -- page order is backwards or a typo is involved. -- Khazar2 (talk) 11:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ BaldBoris 12:27, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

All right, spotchecks of sources show no cause for concern on the copyright front.

Conclusion: Pass. There's a few sources that may be questionable for reliability, such as blog.saint.org, Barry Boyce of Cycling Revealed, or the documentary cited a few times, but these are sparsely used and appear to only support statements that don't need inline citation anyway per criterion 2b. This article is admirably comprehensive and complete--thanks for all of your great research and writing on this one. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:20, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Appreciate all of your help. The blog.saint.org is the only "decent" site that I could use to cite, I actually deleted the text some time ago because of it, but restored it as it's fairly worthy. I dropped the Boyce refs and may drop the docs if I can cite it elsewhere. Thanks again. BaldBoris 00:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * My pleasure! If you do intend to continue on to FA, I'd suggest getting an opinion on those sources at WP:RS/N first if they remain in the article. Good luck, Khazar2 (talk) 00:55, 18 November 2013 (UTC)