Talk:Tombaugh Regio

Name
"Tombaugh Regio" was announced less than an hour ago, as an *informal* name. I think it should be removed, at least until there's a citation! Cjb~enwiki (talk) 19:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Added The Verge citation for Tombaugh Regio. There's also NBC News which states that it's named Tombaugh Regio. Appable (talk) 19:41, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * this source from NYTimes identifies the name as informal, and I think until NASA formalizes the name it should be recognized as such (though I think it should definitely remain). Green  green  green  red 19:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Good point. I've added that citation in (any more and some will probably have to be moved or removed) and added "unofficially-named" to clarify that. There's probably a better way to phrase this, though. As far as I can tell, Heart (pluto) was also an unofficial name that wasn't ever directly referred to. Appable (talk) 19:56, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Definitely unofficial. “informally named the Heart” —DSGalaktos (talk) 19:59, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * How do you feel about moving the article to Tombaugh Regio? "Heart" was only a descriptive name used by NASA and the press.  Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 19:57, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I’d wait until we have something from nasa.gov that clarifies how official the name is. ATM they’re still busy with the conference. —DSGalaktos (talk) 19:59, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Until an official name is announced, it seems to me that "Heart (Pluto)" should be either the page name or at least a redirect to this page since it is the name the public seems most familiar with and so most likely to use as a search term. 2606:A000:A144:C900:5C49:E3A6:8001:2498 (talk) 21:47, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Until an official name is announce, the page should go by most common usage. No telling atm whether Tombough Region or Heart will win out. Lets wait. 93.104.62.163 (talk) 23:10, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Another vote for most common usage, which for the time being seems to be "heart." Neither name is official yet so there's really no point trying to designate the "proper" informal name. --SchutteGod (talk) 00:27, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


 * To clarify, you support Heart (pluto) as the name currently, and if/when a name is announced officially the article should be renamed to the proper name? Or do you support Heart (pluto) regardless of the "proper" name because of colloquial usage? Appable (talk) 05:42, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

This is bullhockies. NASA doesn't have the authority to formalise the name; only the IAU does. Until it goes through the IAU it is just an informal name.  Serendi pod ous  21:16, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * as the current title is non-terrible and there's no clear official name yet, how about we stop redirecting this article until official confirmation of a name is published? Sophie means wisdom (talk) 20:42, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Completely unsubstantiated speculations involving ice asteroids
This user's edits, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/162.156.23.246, are purely speculative hogwash originating from an argument on this forum: http://redd.it/3dhmog. All edits by this IP to this Wikipage should be reverted immediately and promptly. 65.129.229.16 (talk) 17:17, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Any attempt to use reddit as a source should be reverted immediately. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 20:44, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 16 July 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:06, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Pluto's heart → Tombaugh Regio – It is now the given, official name of the region. Philip Terry Graham 17:51, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


 * What is the relevant policy here? Shouldn't we keep the status quo while we see which is becomes more common usage? Mark Schierbecker (talk) 20:09, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. I consider it unlikely that "Tombaugh Regio" will become the common name, though it certainly could, and in such case we could totally re-raise the request. Red Slash 20:39, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose as the current name is the common one. Otherwise wait to see if there is any change when the information on this matures. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:24, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support for "Pluto's heart" is almost never used- the normal term used is "the heart" with its location on Pluto being obvious from context. Given that a move from the current title seems inevitable, it seems a move to its official name makes more sense. If an unofficial name becomes the clearly dominant name in a few months, then the article can be moved again, but right now there seems to be no common unofficial name. If anything, Heart (Pluto) would be the best name if you were going on name popularity, but that title would be absurdly awkward. Chessrat  ( talk, contributions ) 22:56, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: First of all, let's be clear: "Tombaugh Regio" is NOT the official name. Yet. All names have to go through the IAU before they can become official. All that has happened is that Alan Stern has gone against protocol and revealed the name to the public before clearing it with the IAU. The IAU really doesn't like people doing that, because it interferes with the review process. Still, I doubt Stern cares, since he hates the IAU.  Serendi pod ous  23:02, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support it is not "Pluto's heart", it is the "Heart" region on Pluto -- "Pluto's heart" is an inappropriate title, like "North America's Grand Canyon" or "Europe's Danube"; the current title is unnatural disambiguation, since it isn't really used. Heart (Pluto) makes much more sense than the weird title the article currently uses. And Tombaugh Regio is already the declared name by NASA who discovered it. Further this isn't the heart of Pluto, which would be the core of the dwarf planet. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 05:11, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak support. Heart (Pluto) or Heart of Pluto are better choices for the vernacular name. But if the name becomes official, I think that is likely the best long term choice. older ≠ wiser 12:54, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support "Tombaugh Regio" is the name chosen by the discovery team. Unless the IAU chooses something different, it's what we should also use. Nicknames should not be titles. But, if we do use the nickname, we should at least format it correctly, as Heart (Pluto). — kwami (talk) 18:33, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak support we ought to use the official name (cf. Aeolis Mons for Mount Sharp); trouble is it's not the official name yet. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 20:50, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Since no source uses "Pluto's Heart" as the name of this feature, I moved it to "The Heart (Pluto)" pending the resolution of this discussion -- if we're going to use the nickname, we should at least use the nickname, not s.t. made up by WP. ("Heart (Pluto)" was not available for the move.) — kwami (talk) 21:07, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * And we should get someone to lock the page from being moved to prevent every Tom Dick and Sally going through the permutations. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Wikipedia could temporarily and automatically block attempts to move every page that has an ongoing "Request to Move" discussion. Peter Ells (talk) 21:05, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support The name "Heart" is no less unofficial, but it is an informal nickname that is much less likely to be approved by the IAU than the wholly appropriate term "Tombaugh Regio" proposed by the discovery team. Peter Ells (talk) 22:49, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - Tombaugh Regio is now the name. It is encyclopedic to make this change, and I suggest a speedy effectuation. Jus  da  fax   22:05, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak Support - I'd still prefer it be made clear that the name is currently informal, but I don't [any longer] support waiting until it is formalized to move the article, since I have no idea how long it will take for that to happen (I assume it will)—not to mention the fact that Pluto's Heart is no more formal a name. As for WP:COMMONNAME, I concede that more people probably refer to it as Pluto's heart, but I personally have the view that WP:COMMONNAME has more bearing on much more popular articles than this, as those would make it more significant to want to stick to the name people understand. This article's view count is low enough that I perceive any negative impact that could result from using a somewhat less common name to be trivial enough for me to support the move. Green  green  green  red 23:56, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. "Tombaugh Regio" is much more a name than "Heart", and I understand that it has been/will be submitted to the IAU, which will then likely accept it as the official name. In case the IAU would decide otherwise, we can easily revist the move and we will have used at least a proper name for it. --JorisvS (talk) 10:08, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose As of today this article exists in 14 languages, and of these 10 use the name Pluto's heart (or something similar in each individual language) and only 4 languages so far use Tombaugh Regio - I say let's wait and see for a while what happens in term of the use of these names and in term of a realy official recogniced name. Oleryhlolsson (talk) 10:25, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Referring to other wikis is inappropriate. The English Wiki is by a large margin the most active and most discussion will occur here. --JorisvS (talk) 10:38, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've given my oppinion and reasons, and I don't intet to get into a lengthy debate on the matter - actually I find it a little inappropriate to direct comment on other users oppinion like this. Oleryhlolsson (talk) 10:44, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:UE -- it does not matter what other languages call this, since they are not English language Wikipedias. Many topics have many different names in different languages. That a topic is called something else in a different language is irrelevant. And NASA, the people who discovered this, is an English-language organization, so whatever those languages say, they aren't the origination either. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 11:32, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It is completely normal for editors to comment on the reasons others' give in a requested-move discussion—that's why it is called a discussion, not a vote. --JorisvS (talk) 12:02, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support Tombaugh Regio is the scientific name of the formation. "Pluto's Heart", as others have mentioned, is some weird Wikipedia-invented disambiguating title because "Heart" is obviously taken. Appeals to WP:COMMONNAME would have merit if this page were called "The Heart (Pluto)" or something similar. I could support a change in that direction if it were suggested. Stylistically, however, I prefer Tombaugh Regio because, let's face it -- once New Horizons fades out of the media most people looking for information about this formation will be scientifically minded and more likely to use the scientific name. I also think that worries about whether Tombaugh Regio is official or not are misplaced. If the IAU goes against the long-standing convention of allowing discoverers to name formations on distant bodies -- which I would consider very unlikely, particularly given whom this name honors -- then we can at that time move the article to the new official name. The real reason to move the article now is because Pluto's heart is a terrible name, and my sense is that "Tombaugh Regio" is better for the reasons outlined above than "The Heart (Pluto)" which would satisfy WP:COMMONNAME and disambiguated title policies. (As an aside, to the editor who brought up what other WPs are calling their version of this article: I consider it begging the question. Most WP articles in other languages follow en's lead, so the fact that their articles are named the same way as ours currently is is unsurprising, and if we change our article they will probably follow suit.) Eniagrom (talk) 12:33, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - I'd say we have consensus, and weight of argument, for the change. Jus  da  fax   22:44, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - Why is this even an issue? The generally accepted name for the formation at this time is Tombaugh Regio. That is the name THE DISCOVERERS of the formation gave it. If they want to call the heart "New Horizons" for some reason, they're free to do so. For now, we should move it to Tombaugh Regio. DN-boards1 (talk) 23:42, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - "Heart" is a purely descriptive name, while "Tombaugh Regio" is at least provisionally official given that the name is likely to be formally submitted to the IAU. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 05:38, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - Tombaugh Regio is less ambiguous (what if there are more heart-shaped features to be discovered on Pluto?) and the "heart" naming is partially (social) media hype. The name Tombaugh Regio is likely to stick around for a long time. 75.80.123.188 (talk) 08:01, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: NASA puts "heart" in scare quotes, and then goes on to say the region is named Tombaugh Regio. — kwami (talk) 00:21, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - for many of the supportive reasons noted above - afaik "Tombaugh Regio", although not yet official by the IAU, (no mention atm of "Pluto" or related terms in Gazetteer of Planetary Nomenclature?), seems likely to become the official name of the region nonetheless imo - hope this helps in some way - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 13:34, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - Seeing as most articles of surface features of the terrestrial bodies of the Solar System have their official names (e.g. the regions Alpha Regio on Venus, Arabia Terra on Mars, Xanadu on Titan, Galileo Regio on Ganymede). Also, "The Heart" seems to be a provisional name (e.g. Xanadu Region for Titan's Xanadu, Goethe for Mercury's Borealis Planitia). In addition, though not yet de jure (as NASA confirmed that the name is now pending submission for the IAU), the "Tombaugh Regio" fits in the criteria "Scientists and engineers associated with Pluto and the Kuiper Belt." issued by the IAU's WGPSN. Chihciboy (talk) 14:17, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - I would rather have waited until the IAU makes it official, but "Heart (Pluto)" was probably the most appropriate title until that happens. Unfortunately, the article was moved from that title shortly before the move request was made, but after Tombaugh Regio had been announced and was being discussed here. There are a lot of Google hits for "Pluto's heart", but "heart" is often in scare quotes, which suggest that the phrase is not really a name for the region per se. The 3 moves in the middle of the requested move process are pretty disruptive, but illustrate that there are many ways the colloquial name could be formatted. Go with the quasi-official name (and likely soon, actually official) that is prevalent in the most reliable sources about this subject (i.e., what WP:COMMONNAME actually says, not how it is often misinterpreted). Plantdrew (talk) 16:32, 23 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kwamikagami's recent move of the article
Kwamikagami, like you (presumably) I quite disliked "Pluto's Heart" and like you I prefer "The Heart (Pluto)" if one must keep the heart in the name, but we have an ongoing move discussion which is very close to being closed and while I am not qualified to close it, it seems quite clear that support for a move to Tombaugh Regio is overwhelming among those who weighed in.

As such, I am confused about why you decided to move the article to "The Heart (Pluto)" when in fact a move to a different name in the following days seems inevitable at this point. Would you care to explain? Thanks .... Eniagrom (talk) 08:39, 23 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I was going to offer to lock the page against moves, but since I voted above I think that would have been inappropriate. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:47, 23 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The original title of the article was "Heart (Pluto)". It was moved with out discussion to "Pluto's Heart" after Tombaugh Regio had been announced (at a point when folks were discussing how official that name was), but before the move request was made. It was moved, again without discussion, to "Pluto's heart" (lowercase) an hour after the move request was made, and has been moved 3 more times since. I don't think any moves while a requested move is in progress are appropriate. And I'm having a hard time assuming good faith with the initial move from "Heart (Pluto)" to "Pluto's Heart", which was made at a time when it was clear that Tombaugh Regio might be a candidate for the article title. Plantdrew (talk) 16:18, 23 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree with the substance of what you're saying, but I've worked with kwami on other articles and he's definitely not the type to act in bad faith, for what it's worth. Moving the article during a move is nonetheless not appropriate to my mind. Eniagrom (talk) 19:14, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

I also prefer the actual name of the feature (Tombaugh Regio) over its nickname. It's clear we have consensus against the OR name. But the move discussion is confused: some support the move merely because the article was at a ridiculous made-up name; they might not have supported if it had been at its original location. I moved it back to the original location so that at least WP is not a joke while we discuss it. — kwami (talk) 01:06, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Left-right changed to western eastern
I've changed references to the left/right lobes of Tombaugh Regio to western/eastern lobes respectively. I've added a picture to the gallery which justifies this change. Peter Ells (talk) 22:14, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you may want to think carefully about this. Cartography on Pluto is surprisingly complex. As it turns out, there are two systems in wide use which unfortunately flip north and south. Your notion that east/west is less ambiguous may in fact turn out to be false. Eniagrom (talk) 18:55, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The source of the image is the New Horizons website. So probably the coordinates are those used by the New Horizons team. However, a discussion is warranted on this talk page. Peter Ells (talk) 19:26, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I guess my point is this: as of right now, east and west are ambiguous. However, "left side of the photo" is not, assuming that the photo is presented in the same orientation each time. And since Tombaugh Regio's resemblance to a heart more or less guarantees that in the near term, the photo will always be displayed in the same orientation, I think that your change, while logical on the face of it, may have been unintentionally counterproductive and I would suggest returning to the left/right usage. Eniagrom (talk) 11:28, 31 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Please revert this if you wish. Peter Ells (talk) 21:11, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

pronunciation
Alan Stern uses the idiosyncratic pronunciation, including when he mentions the Tombaughs in the audience. I assumed therefore that the Tombaugh family used this idiosyncratic pronunciation. However, Jeff Moore (e.g. in the July 17 update) uses the traditional pronunciation,. Anyone know which is correct for Clyde Tombaugh? — kwami (talk) 23:20, 31 July 2015 (UTC)


 * It should really follow the one used on Clyde Tombaugh, although I notice that's unreferenced. Talk:Clyde Tombaugh might be a better place to discuss the pronunciation of his name. Modest Genius talk 09:42, 4 August 2015 (UTC)