Talk:Tomislav Sunić

Extremism
My edits were re-written by an anonymous editor so I am starting this talk page.

1) I am assuming that the editor objected to my characterization of Dr. Sunic's views as "anti-immigrant" so I have removed any characterization of his views and let them speak for themselves.

2) I also removed the new qualiyfing language about the two cited groups where Dr. Sunic expressed his views:

-- The National Alliance has an undisputed Wikipedia article on this group that characterizes it as "white separatist" and "white nationalist" which I have cited. I think there is no question that these are positions consistent with the use of the term "far right extremism." It makes no sense to qualify this term with adjectives such as "some people consider to be" since this is a truism. If expert references for this classification are needed, I will provide them.

-- The NPD in Germany is classified by the German government as right-wing extremist and close in views to Nazism and I have re-written the section to indicate this.

However, I did add the qualification that the characterization of these groups as "Far Right Extremist" is made by critics, governments, and NGO's. I could add scholars but lets see how this works out. Of course, the groups themselves and their supporters object o to this term but that goes without saying and is noted in the Wikipedia articles on this subject which are linked to.

3) I removed the language that asserted without evidence that Dr. Sunic was motivated by his "concern to preserve European peoples and their traditions." If this is how Dr. Sunic views himself, then we need some references for this. Also the assertion that that the National Alliance and NPD are classified as rightwing extremist because of their corresponding concern is not supported by any evidence nor by the existing Wikipedia articles on these groups. All evidence suggested they are so-classified because of the views which they espouse.

3) I also have removed the addition of the term "Revisionism" to that of "Holocaust Denial." The Wikipedia article on Holocaust Denial already explains that Holocaust deniers prefer the use of this term and that scholars refers to this movement as "Holocaust Denial." Therefore, it is unecessary to add the term "Revisionism."

Sgmiller 19:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC) sgmiller

claims about articles deleted
I just did a search of both FACTIVA and LEXIS/NEXIS for anything written under the name Tomislav Sunic or Tom Sunic and there was nothing found for the Wall Street Journal, Le Monde, or the Frankfurter Allgemeine. In fact, other than numerous "letters to the editor", I could find nothing writtten by Mr Sunic in any major newspaper or magazine. The databases cover these publications beginning in 1979-81, so it is possible, although unlikely given his age, that something was written before those years. So, until such time that it can be referenced, I have removed the statement that Dr. Sunic has written for the above publications.

Sgmiller 08:27 1 June 2007 (UTC) sgmiller

Mister S G Miller, since you are absolutely biased, there is no point to discuss anything with you. There is more than obviously, that you hate Mr. Tom Sunic, and you found him guilty in all points of Your accusations. You go so far, that even his job as translator in Algiers is a "magnum crimen", as well everything else in his life, after Your opinion.

His (Tom Sunic's) biography in Wikipedia is more certain and true, more just, than the biographies of following mass murders of native American and slave owners: -George Washington, -John Adams. -Benjamin Franklin, -Thomas Jefferson.

Tom Sunic's position toward Jews in not scientifically sustainable, but less unmoral than CNN News.

I do know Mr.Tomislav Sunic for over 25 years, and I don't share his opinions, but I can't accept hate as motive to write about him.

Ivan Vule Fridman Basel, Switzerland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.156.73 (talk) 19:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

edited section on views
I edited and combined the sections on Dr. Sunic's views. Instead of the unreferenced characterization of the "New Right", I substituted a definition from the Wikipedia article on the subject and provided a better transition from the though of Benoist to the topic of Dr. Sunic's speaker appearances. I think the opening description of Dr. Sunic's views could be improved a bit and I will work on that sometime later.

I also added a futher decription of the National Alliance from the Wikipedia article on that group.

Sgmiller 10:02 1 June 2007 (UTC) sgmiller

edited views again
After some thought, I rewrote this section again, combining some of the original descriptions of his work, with references this time, and providing a more seamless transition from this description to Dr. Sunic speaking appearances. It would be possible to provide a more indepth analysis of his writing, but this is a short article and frankly, Dr. Sunic is not a major figure in European political thought, so I think a short article is ok.

Sgmiller 01:19 2 June 2007 (UTC) sgmiller

Biography
This article has turned out to be a bit of a disaster. I discovered that Dr. Sunic's biography as it wass originally written was taken word for word from the website of Noontide, a well-known publishing company connected to the Institute for HIstorical Review, a Holocaust Denial organization. I therefore have a hard time seeing it as a reliable source and it was un-referenced to boot. I didn't know what else to do, so I linked to the source as well as cut out some of the claims of the bio which I think are exaggerated based on what I found out earlier with respect to the Wall Street Journal and other newspapers. Unfortunately, there is no other easily available source for biographical details on Dr. Sunic so I guess this will have to do for now. If anybody has a better source or a better idea about how to handle this, feel free to let me know.

Sgmiller 02:09 2 June 2007 (UTC) sgmiller

Resume
Today I found Dr. Sunic's online resume and did some re-writing of his bio accordingly. From this resume, and other similar resumes from Sunic online, it seems clear that his claim to have made contributions to major newspapers have been exaggerated. This resume describe such contributions as "Journalist - For foreign editors" while others state "contributions." Somehow this language got changed in other biographies to "Articles, reviews and essays" but, as I have said before, since searches of media databases can nothings other than Letters to the Editor written by Dr. Sunic for major publications, I will leave this out of his bio. The same goes for interviews with CNN and MacNeil Lehrer.

Also, the resume mentions that he worked as a "lobbyist" in Algeria for a company known as Sequipag - Ingra. It seems a bit odd to be working as a lobbyist in Algeria and I also want to find something more about the company but so far no luck. If anybody knows about this company, I would be interested. I also want to know why Dr. Sunic left teaching positions in America and who he was lobbying for in the U.S. The resume only mentions "various organizations." I suspect that these might be the same kind of organizations that he has spoken before such as IHR but this needs to be confirmed and referenced. If he was enaged with Holocaust Denial or or other such activity, its possible that as a foreign national and untenured academic, he got into trouble of some kind and was asked to leave the Universities and/or the U.S. The fact that he subsequently got a diplomatic position might indicate this he was seeking immunity of some kind related to these activities. In an ideal world, his claim for having taught at various universities and to having been a diplomat would be verified but this is beyond the scope of Wikipedia I guess.

Recent Edits
A large number of edits were made without explanation or references. I a requesting that references be provided for these edits or I will remove them in the near future. Also, an attempt was made to qualify right-wing extremist groups by adding qualifers such as "considered by liberal politicians." Groups such as the National Alliance are considered by academics, ngo's, etc to be rightwing extremist without controversey so I will remove these qualifiers. I have also once again removed the claim that Sunic has published numerous articles as I found no such articles in a search of LEXIS/NEXIS. Having written Letters to the Editor does not seem noteworthy so I removed this as well. Please reference any such articles before adding this claim again.

Sgmiller 01:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and removed the recent edits involving Dr. Sunic's speaking appearances. The material that was added was not referenced nor could I find any verifiable information that confirmed the edit. I edited and re-added the material which characterized the talks and the "anti-immigrant" remarks at the Eurofest. Ideally, I would like to have a full transcript of the talks rather than just the "sound bytes" but given that these were events sponsored by a neo-Nazi group, the remarks seems consistent with the nature of the event. It was hard to decide whether or not to add the quotations themselves (Turks "enslaving" Germany for example) but for now, I just characterized the remarks as "anti-immigrant." If this become controversial, I will reconsider and perhaps directly use the cited remarks. If a more complete public transcript of the talks becomes available, I will consider rediting this section again but until that time, this is all we have.

References Needed
I reformatted the article to put in proper footnotes and also indicated in the references section where references are needed. I will wait for a bit for such references but will remove the associated material if they are not provided because I cannot find anything on these subjects. I also added a "Speaking Appearances" section and move some of the opening material to this section.

Sgmiller 13:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, since no references have been forthcoming, I am removing the corresponding statements. Sgmiller 11:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Extremely POV
This article is strongly biased. Saying that Sunic has been "mildly critical of Jewry" is a gross understatement in itself, but then the article attempts to convince the reader that Sunic's dislike of Jews is justified. This, of course, is a editorializing and a blatant POV violation. The article itself appears to be written from an anti-Jewish and pro-fascist POV.

The article desperately needs some work by someone who is familiar with anti-Semitism-related topics. Stonemason89 (talk) 01:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * My thoughts exactly. Josh (talk) 09:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

If someone went around mentioning the misogyny of the subject in every single entry on a male who has moderate to extreme misogynist views - and there are many in music, cinema, and literature, as well as in political and religious institutions worldworld - and someone edited these out would you then argue that those editors are anti-women and pro-misogynist? No. Didn't think so. It's funny how liberal simpletons fail to comprehend the hypocrisy and irony of just how POV it is to be selective in raising alarms about POV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.17.192.128 (talk) 07:27, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

White Supremacist?
I replaced the "White Supremacist" epithet with a more neutral designation: "White Advocate". The Anti-Defamation League is a partisan "watchdog" organization which is far from being a neutral source. Yet, even it only claims that he's "collaborated" with White Supremacists, so the source doesn't even support the argument if one accepts the ADL as a source.

An additional complication is that one of the other sources provided in this article has him directly contradicting racial supremacism in his own words.

http://theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/Sunic-Identity.html "Even more importantly, White people must explicitly accept a White identity. This explicit White identity does not imply that Whites are superior to other peoples or that other peoples are not also unique and have a right to maintain their uniqueness. It merely states that we are a unique people with a unique culture and that both our people and our culture are worth preserving."

Can somebody source him actually promoting White superiority or domination over non-Whites? The man has days worth of podcasts and books worth of material freely available online, so it should be easy to do if that's indeed the case. --Wikitopian (talk) 14:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Rearrange Views
I have updated the Views so that it contains most of the information presented before, but provides it in a more readable and topical manner.

This sub-section is entitled "views", not "links". It’s biased and off-topic to begin a paragraph purporting to portray his views with a list of controversial people and groups he’s linked to. It would be like beginning an article about Obama with "Obama has long collaborated with left-wing terrorists Bill Ayers and attended a church organized by an explicitly racial and anti-American organization."

While some sources could be whipped up to "source" those claims and provide a fig leaf of legitimacy to them, it’s quite obvious that the intent of the hypothetical paragraph is to bias the reader against the subject. --Wikitopian (talk) 18:09, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

A BLP issue
Regarding this edit: the source is a television interview, which - for the purposes of WP:BLP - is close to being a self-published source. Since names of living people in this context are both irrelevant and WP:BLP-problematic, they are best left out. GregorB (talk) 12:33, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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