Talk:Tommy Oliver/Archive 1

I have removed the "Dino Ranger" and "Thunder Ranger" terms from the sections dealing with Tommy's Green and White Ranger selves. The only time the "Dino Ranger" term was used is throughout Dino Thunder's run. The original Ranger team were only ever reffered to as the Power Rangers. Nothing more, nothing less. I have also taken the liberty of correcting any other "Dino Ranger" errors in the MMPR-related articles. Chebo

The Chronolocial Order Is Screwed Up Where you said:

"He then befriended Kimberly Hart, the Pink Ranger, in a loving relationship, and started dating her. When she left the team to pursue her career in gymnastics, they kept in touch, but she later broke up with him in a "Dear John" type letter when she confessed to meeting someone else while on her tours. This was a sad moment for Tommy.

As time went on, Rita cast a spell, in the form of a green candle (using her contact with the Dragon Coin as a base), to drain Tommy's Green Ranger powers and retrieve them, but Zordon was able to save them by having Tommy transfer the powers to Jason. Goldar pinned Tommy in a compromising situation, telling him that his betrayal of Rita was not forgotten. Tommy was now powerless and wasn't able to battle Goldar without his Green Ranger powers. The Red Ranger possessed his Dragon Dagger and Shield and control of the Dragonzord when Tommy's Ranger powers faded."

--Kimberly didn't break up with Tommy until WELL after he was finished with the green ranger gimmick. She was still on the show when he became the white ranger...I believe when she broke up with him, he was the red turbo ranger by that time.

It should be adjusted so that the "Green Candle" episode is introduced way before the mentioning of Kimberly ending the relationship.

Something tells me, Zarbon, that you are changing the entries for "Green Dino Ranger" back to "Green Mighty Morphin'/Power Ranger" and vice-versa. Please cease and desist, as I am trying to list the Ranger's codenames after the sources of their powers, not the show's name. - D.L. 04:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Please stop changing the "Green Dino Ranger/White Thunder Ranger" entries back to "Mighty Morphin' "; I am listing the Ranger names as the source of their power, not the show's name. - Sonic Shadow


 * The problem, Sonic Shadow, is that I don't necessarily agree with your assessment as the "Dino Rangers" were the official designation. You'll recall in the episode Forever Red, when Jason sounds off, he says, "Mighty Morphin' Power Ranger."  He does not say "Red Dino Ranger" or "Red Tyranno Ranger" or "Red Thunder Ranger".  He says "Mighty Morphin' Power Ranger."  Whilst I may wholeheartedly disagree with Zarbon's manic-fanboyism about Tommy (and the blatant smothering of photos), I would have to go with "Mighty Morphin'" rather than "Dino" since, canonically, they were never called that. - Q.Diddy 04:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I added many new parts of Tommy's storyline as the Green Ranger as well as lots of pictorial shots of him as the Green Ranger. - Zarbon

Simply put, I think there are WAY TOO MANY pictures of Tommy as the Green Ranger. He's called "Technicolor Tommy" for a reason! Remove and/or replace some of them with sourced photos of his other forms, too. - The Dragonmaster 03:35, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

well, i added lots of other pics of him as white ranger, red zeo, red turbo, etc. But he's best known as being the green ranger, and thus the pics will help his image. - Zarbon

Stop it, Zarbon. We get it. You LOVE the Green Ranger. However, as I've stated in the reasoning behind the revert, too many pictures clutter up the article, making it unreadable in some instances. TWO pictures of him as the Green Ranger is more than enough. If you continue, I will report you and/or request this page locked from any additional images being added. And that would suck. - The Dragonmaster 04:58, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

yes, you are right about me loving him. i have indeed for the past 15 or so years of my life. regardless, the pic of his powers fading must remain. - Zarbon

Q.Diddy's got a point. As he stated before, the original Ranger team were never called the Dino Rangers canonically. I too prefer Mighty Morphin and much of this preference stems from the fact that the Dino Thunder Rangers have also been reffered to, both by fans and even on the show every now and again, as the Dino Rangers (Case in point - Wormhole). Also, the various other Ranger teams have been called by their show names (ie. Zeo, Turbo, etc) so I dont see why the same cant hold true for MMPR. - Chebo 10:01, 2 March 2006 (EST)

Mystic Force
There's no reason for Tommy to be in Mystic Force. It's quite clear how the foreshadowing and the plot in Magi goes that Koragg is going to be Nick's father/Udonna's husband. gssq 23:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Who said that? 71.111.232.40 14:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I dont understand? 68.116.30.170 20:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Subsections
The subsections of the character history that I placed in are constantly being removed. If other editors have reasons as to why such subsections are not necessary, please state so below. Ryulong 03:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
Understandably, only one picture of the Green Ranger is needed, however, I move that anyone that has access to better picture update the image. The current image is horrible, as the shield used is the thrown together American one. A picture of the Super Sentai/MMPR Green Ranger, with the decent shield should be depicted. Zero X Marquis 23:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's better than the random picture of the Green Power Ranger without the armor. I felt that the one that's currently used (aside from the fact that you claim it is horrible) is sufficient for the article, as it comes from the actual MMPR footage and shows the Green Ranger with his armor. Ryulong 23:45, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, found a picture that more than likely comes from the ZyuRanger footage at Green with Evil. Ryulong 23:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, its just that the Green Ranger was rarely depicted as such. I mean, its not a bad picture, I even have a pog with the image, its just that it isn't one that represents what the Green Ranger is. I must say, I like the replacement a lot better. Zero X Marquis 02:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I was afraid that this would happen when someone added just one picture (that worked). There are too many pictures. You only need one picture at best from each era, one showing him outside the suit, and possibly the one showing him in Fighting Spirit. The rest need to be removed. Zero X Marquis 15:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Where does it say that? Ryūlóng 20:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * By what do you mean? As a rule or something? Zero X Marquis 21:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If you are referring to the other pictures that were recently added, I agree that they should be removed, actually. Slight confusion on my part. Ryūlóng 21:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed this, but the picture of the Red Turbo ranger currently in use isn't Tommy, its TJ. Tommy's morph sequence was that of the movie, it ended with his face being covered, as well as the background was green. TJs sequence was full body, and his background was red. Zero X Marquis 05:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have editted back to the generic Red Racer picture which comes from the CarRanger footage, then. Ryūlóng 05:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Big ups to whoever got rid of that ridiculous distorted pic of Tommy in Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie! RabidPanda V 14:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

White Ranger Leader?
In White Light pt 2, Zordon states that Tommy is the new leader of the Power Rangers. However, upon Jason's return in A Golden Homecoming, Jason eluded that Tommy became leader as a result of him leaving (suggesting that at best they shared leadership until he left). SO, is what Zordon said retconned by Jason, or do we accept what Zordon said and ignore JasonZero X Marquis 22:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly sure he was made the leader in the White Light episodes, and it's a plothole as to the transfer of leadership (they needed some reason to kick St. John, Jones, and Trang off the show). Ryūlóng 22:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I understand why they did, but the question is to which is considered canon. I don't care either way, but the change was made to the article, and I thought it should be mentioned. Zero X Marquis 22:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said, I am fairly sure that he was made the leader when he was revealed to be the White Ranger. Although the last time I saw that episode was in 199...whatever, I think that is when it was done. Ryūlóng 22:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

He was made leader then, but my question is that do you retcon those events with what Jason said in a later episode, or does White Light stand? Zero X Marquis 22:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that it's a fairly good retconning. It can be said that he was made the leader then, but that may have been while they were trying to recast. Ryūlóng 22:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * To finally answer your question... Jason was referring back to the days when he was the leader, which was technically before he left, albeit a little bit before then, but still. On another note, the original reason Tommy was made the leader had quite a bit to do with Austin St. John's contract dispute with Saban at the time and very shortly after "White Light," Austin, Thuy and Walter had walked out and been replaced. This is not as much of a plot hole as it is a technicality in the time period referenced. RabidPanda V 04:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

A simple, yet effective explanation. Thanks. Zero X Marquis 17:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Dragon Coin
The Dragon Power Coin was rendered powerless and deemed inactive in "Green No More." The faux power coin engineered by the Wizard of Deception was not the true Power Coin, but rather an illusion, hence the Wizard of Deception, that allowed the cloned Tommy access to the Command Center. If the Dragon Coin had indeed been real, then clone Tommy would have not needed the Wizard of Deception to energize the Dragonzord. I motion to remove the speculation as to the Dragon Coin in the controversy section or amend it to reflect this, more accurate, account. RabidPanda V 22:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that the power was regenerized, and it may even be a copy of the coin. But the fact that continued to exist after the destruction of the Wizard, plus seeing how the wizard of deception has actual ability to create things, such as the clone, and the ability to do send the rangers back in time, not everything he does, in fact, nothing he did was an illusion. Also, he didn't exactly reenergize the Dragonzord, he reenergerized the Dragonzord with evil (a subtle difference, but it makes that much of a difference). Most importantly though, the fact that the clone and the power continued to exist after the Wizard's demise shows that they are real, even if just as copies. Zero X Marquis 20:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind, though, that the White Ranger stripped Green Ranger of his powers when they defeated the rats, giving him the 1790s attire. It was mentioned back in modern Angel Grove that it was a good thing that Zordon destroyed the Wizard's wand.  I do believe that this is sufficient enough evidence to prove that the green coin doesn't exist at all any more except as possibly a powerless artifact in the rubble of the destroyed Power Chamber. RabidPanda V 21:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not quite. The Clone maintained the ability to create objects, and when he did, it would flash Green. Nor, was it ever established that the coin itself was created by the Wizard, just that it could have been (it may very well be the original power) to that effect, it wasn't established that the power was dependent upon the wizards wand. And even if it were, there is nothing saying that destroying it would have destroyed the Green Rangers power. This is why this is controversial. It is either or, one or the other, and there is evidence in both favours. And as it doesn't claim it to be fact, but rather possibilities (which they are) the section should remain as is Zero X Marquis 21:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Power Rangers Leader
Delphine was a white ranger and a leader, however, she was not of the same lineage as the Power Rangers chronicled in the series. She is a leader of her own, seperate entity of Power Rangers... the aptly named Alien Rangers. Tommy remained leader of the team from his time as a white ranger and remained so until he passed his powers on to T.J. I would like to motion to have to amended in the article, as it currently aknowleges Delphine as leader of the Power Rangers during Tommy's time as a child although even in child form, he still acted as a leader for his lineage of rangers. RabidPanda V 22:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Delphine was the team leader of the interim Aquitian Rangers team, while Tommy did lead the child Ranger team (if they could be considered as such). Ryūlóng 23:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Tommy's Possible Future
It would seem as if the events of "A Season to Remember" don't contradict the events of Dino Thunder, so it would be fair to say that such is the future. However, after rewatching the episodes, it isn't true that he married Katharine. It may be true, but the woman in fact is never given a name, just highly suggested that she is. Also, the Retirement title should be removed... it isn't mentioned that he is actually retired (you should never extend beyond what is shown). Therefore, I move that the title be changed to "Tommy's Future" or something along those lines, and the portion of him being married to Kat should be moved to the controvery section as it is either true or it isn't, but can't be proven either way (though admittedly, most of the evidence is in favour of her being Kat)Zero X Marquis 20:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The main problem exists in that a single editor made the section and it has never been proven to be the true future (his son uses the communicator that Billy invented, and those were phased out/destroyed). I think that the "Possible Future" headline is enough, not "In Retirement" as that is simply what happens at the end of Dino Thunder, at least from being a Ranger. The entire episode was a Christmas special, and Christmas specials are rarely, if at all, canon. Ryūlóng 20:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I concur, but I was trying to compromise. I doubt this is his future, but other editors believe it is so. Zero X Marquis 21:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If someone can dig up the name of the episode, we can give it a whimsical heading. Ryūlóng 22:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I did, it's entitled "A Season to Remember" - Episode 29 of Power Rangers: Zeo Zero X Marquis 22:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm...can't think of a good title from that. Ryūlóng 22:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Well the title shouldn't be "A Season to Remember" it should be something along the lines of Tommy's future or something like that.Unclerico89 04:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * But we do not know if it is his future, and the episode it comes from is entitled "A Season to Remember". Ryūlóng 04:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Why wouldn't it be his future? I mean I understand your point of view, it being a Christmas special, but it was shown on the show, it was not fanon. I agree with the current title "In 'A Season to Remember'" but it is part of the show's continuity. If it is not in contuity because it was in the future, then neither is S.P.D. Though we may not always agree, I respect you Ryulong but you have to see my point of view on this. Unclerico89 04:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It was simply a future as described within the Zeo timeline. Kat is absent from Dino Thunder, and he may have became involved with Hayley or Elsa in the various years between Zeo and DT. He basically switched from Kim to Kat when Amy Jo Johnson was dropped from the show, maybe he got back together with her? There is just too much that we do not know that can be construed as original research if we state that it is the truth. The timeline within "A Season to Remember" was self-contained; it showed Tommy Oliver and Kat Hillard married and in old age with children and grandchildren. The writers of Zeo/Turbo had no idea that Tommy would return as a Ranger, and I doubt that the writers of Dino Thunder would have wanted to retcon in the contents of a single Christmas special to fit in with the DT timeline. I can see that you feel that this entry on a possible future is necessary, but to avoid original research, we cannot state that the small amount of events within "A Season to Remember" are the characters explicit future. Ryūlóng 04:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The only thing I don't get is the notion that it contradicts DT. Kat not being in the show doesn't mean they couldn't be together in the future presented in the special. Maybe, maybe not, as is the nature of Christmas episodes. It just concerns me that a suggestion that challenges something shown in the show that isn't a direct contradiction, and using possible but unsupported potential love interests borders on original research itself, moreso than citing "A Season to Remember". Onikage725

Appearances
Can someone check on the number of epsiodes Tommy appeared in?Unclerico89 06:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
Any particular reason for the weird set-up of pictures? They're like as big as my fingernails. I think there is a better format we can go with. Unclerico89 07:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried to set them up side to side...but it does not appear to work. Ryūlóng 07:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Appearance of Nimrod and The White Ranger
I just read the section where it stated that Nimrod came down and attacked, then Zordon and Alpha left. That is totally wrong. Alpha and Zordon left BEFORE Nimrod was let loose on Angle Grove. Zordon and Alpha senced a break in the Morphing Grid and from Zedd. The left to astablish Tommy as the White Ranger. Then Zedd senced a problem in the Morphing Grid and sent Nimrod down to deal with the Ragers since Zordon wasnt there. The blah blah blah and Tommy came back as the White Ranger and kicked the crap out of Nimrod.

Possible Image Amendment
I was taking a look at the image change which removed the second Green Ranger pic, I had an epiphany. If we truly want to depict the character of Tommy as a ranger, should we not use pictures from the American footage instead of the Sentai. After all, the American stuff actually intends to depict the Tommy character whereas the Sentai is just adapted to coincide. I just want to gauge opinions here. RabidPanda V 18:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from, but you should use the image from the sentai as it is what the character was mostly depicted as. Not only, when the sentai footage ran out, the Green Ranger went with it (unlike the core team). The shield that the American footage used was sub-par, and you kinda want to show the best of the character in an image. That said, its only my opinion, but if you want a decent compromise, use the American upgrade suit shown in Dino Thunder's Fighting Spirit - a much better attempt to match the sentai counterpart (sans that repaint on the helmet). Zero X Marquis 19:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, that image was a duplicate and uploaded by an editor who has a series of questionable image uploads. Tommy was depicted as the Green Power Ranger using footage of the Dragon Ranger from ZyuRanger. Any sort of imagery that can be said to be from the Sentai footage, then that's all right to use. People just don't like how the Dragon Shield looks after the Dragon Ranger footage ran out. The MMPR pic from the main MMPR article is used in the ZyuRanger article, so why not have the same? We just need to have a fair use criteria. Ryūlóng 22:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Jebus?
The Lists of Simpsons neologims claims Jebus is used by fans to describe the disproportionate powers Tommy has compared to the other rangers. Either it should be mentioned her too or shoudln't be mentioned there at all. It probably also needs some kind of citation. -- Horkana 00:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, remove it there.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 00:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Minority Question
While reading trivia and notes and trivia on the Power Ranger Seasons I read that the Red Ranger from Ninja Storm was the second minority to be a red ranger (samoan). Asuming they meant TJ from Turbo as the first, does that mean they didn't count Latinos or Native Americans minorities? I mean, definately Native Americans are minorities, right? Jason David Frank is native american and I would think his character would be too. I mean that's how it should work anyway...Zack was black cause the actor was black, Trini asian cause her actress (r.i.p.) was asian. So should that piece of trivia be changed? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chicagos finest (talk • contribs).
 * Well, Rocky was white Hispanic, Tommy was on the white end of Native American ancestry. I'm pretty sure that trivia can be nuked, regardless.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Everyone knows that race only counts for anything if you actually look like that race. Otherwise, white African Americans would be eligible for affirmative action. -Alph