Talk:Tommy Robinson (activist)/Archive 6

British or English
Should he be described as "British" or "English"? He has had affiliations with the British National Party and the British Freedom Party, but also with the English Defence League. The Categories predominantly use "English", as those are more specific. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * He can be both, so lets go with what RS say. Slatersteven (talk) 14:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * So I guess that's going to be non-UK RS, as UK sources typically don't need to use either? Or are perhaps just too embarrassed. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Whoever. Slatersteven (talk) 14:40, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * NYT calls him British as does CNN. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Then so do we. Slatersteven (talk) 14:53, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Quite a small sample there. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * True, but its down to anyone who disagrees to find counter examples. Slatersteven (talk) 14:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. We'll see what happens. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Always best to use nationality, so British. Though, didn't I read that he had Irish background....? Emeraude (talk) 15:38, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "He says that his parents were Irish immigrants"? If we believe him, then that might open up a whole new fresh can of nationality worms? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If he was born in the UK, he is a British citizen. I would avoid the term English because it is ambiguous. He doesn't meet the definition of English that he supports. TFD (talk) 06:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Martin - are you trying to say he is not British because his mother* (not father) is Irish? That sounds racist - can you clear that up? Ohok1 (talk) 18:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "Ohok1", how does one "clear up" an unsubstantiated claim made by someone like Yaxley-Lennon? Why should he not be British? Is that January 2010 interview with Victoria Derbyshire, on BBC Radio 5 Live, still available online somewhere, or even a transcript? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

His dad was English
It says in 'Early life' "He says that his parents were Irish immigrants." He doesn't, he says his mother was Irish, and his father was English; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10389954/Who-is-the-real-Tommy-Robinson.html, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCioFzgpSs timestamp; 21:15 "my mums an immigrant." Ohok1 (talk) 18:39, 12 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I've used that Telegraph source to replace the Victoria Derbyshire interview one and changed the claim. This YouTube video interview is not as useful as he just says "My Mum's an immigrant". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The interview is must see viewing though - the whole video just destroys the lefts argument that "tommys a racist!" he talks pure truth, and I think everyone is starting to see that. Islamisation is destroying this country. God bless Tommy Robinson. Ohok1 (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I managed a good 40 seconds. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Read wp:soap. Slatersteven (talk) 10:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * He's changed his story over the years. I'll change the wording. TFD (talk) 03:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Hoolignaism
Copsey makes it clear that drew on football hooligans, and this has now been removed, why? Slatersteven (talk) 12:00, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The problem I have broadly with this article (and many others like it) is that it frequently uses juxtaposition and category labels to create a tone that doesn't reflect the articles it sources from.
 * The original version of that claim said something in the form of "Robinson said it's not anti-muslim, but its members include hooligans and anti-muslim people". This way of phrasing things creates a juxtaposition of Robinson's statements against a statement from a source that emphasises that Robinson is an unreliable narrator. This is probably true, extremists aren't generally known for being reliable sources on their own beliefs when trying to make themselves look presentable to a mainstream audience, but it's not encyclopaedic to create this juxtaposition without it being presented this way in reliable sources.
 * I've put this back in as an attributed claim, but I'm intending to give the rest of the article a similar shakedown. If there are specific things you think I should keep in mind while doing this, would appreciate it in advance. BrigadierG (talk) 12:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ANd we had a source for just that claim. And yes, you need to keep in mind do not to remove sourced content without discussion, and you need to self revert. Slatersteven (talk) 12:40, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is a very dismissive response and I don't have a reply. BrigadierG (talk) 13:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Which part, that we had a source for this content, that you choose to remove the cite to? Or the request to not remove sourced content without asking first? The fact you have already removed cite content means you really need to get permission to remove anything (per wp:brd) that might (as this was) get reverted. Slatersteven (talk) 13:27, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is good, I would much rather have someone watching over my shoulder to make sure my edits are not problematic. I am doing my best to work with you collaboratively on this and come to compromises about contested content (eg mentioning being barred from the US in the lede), and I think it is only reasonable to go back and forth to some degree when a significant change is implemented.
 * My intent is generally not to add many new sources, nor remove many, just to try end edit the content to better reflect the sources in question and remove cases of WP:SYNTH and WP:LABEL. BrigadierG (talk) 15:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The problem with that is wp:3rr, we may well end up having an edit war (this is why I have not reverted your last edit). YOu did not remove WP:SYNTH, as stated we had a source that explicitly stated both the claims (and they do not violate label) you removed. Slatersteven (talk) 15:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * All I've done is shift them from statements in wikivoice to attributions and removed the juxtaposition. What changes would you make to my edits? BrigadierG (talk) 18:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No you did not, you removed the claim he wore a mask, you removed the text about how some of its members were football hooligans. Slatersteven (talk) 09:26, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2024
UKIP should be removed from the political party section on the infobox as Robinson was never actually a member. While he was an adviser to party leader Gerard Batten, he was never a member as the party's constitution barred former members of far-right groups like the EDL and BNP. This is stated in the article body under 'Political activities'. No exception was made for him and UKIP kept this ban on far-right group members until 2023. 148.252.147.61 (talk) 03:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree, as having this in the infobox gives the impression that he was a member of UKIP, which he wasn't. What do others think?-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 07:17, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree. So I have removed it. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:08, 9 June 2024 (UTC)