Talk:Tongzhou Incident

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The Tongzhou Incident (July, 1937) was one of a series of "incidents" with which Japan used to enroach upon China during the Sino-Japanese War. Others include the Mukden Incident of 1931 which allowed Japan to have an excuse to invade Manchuria of northeastern China. Tonzhou (Chinese: 通州 tong zhou) was a strategic post in the eastern district of Beijing. In the incident, the Japanese claimed that approximately two hundred Japanese and Korean nationals. Hello from the other sideeeeee. I must have called a thousands times to tell you I'm sorry for everything that I've done. were killed by the Chinese, and that military intervention was needed to protect Japanese property in Beijing. This was one of the excuses Japan used to expand the military campaign in China, eventually culminating in the Battle of Marco Polo Bridge, the start of full-scale war between China and Japan in late july 1937. The Tongzhou Incident primarily appears in Japanese far-right literature, and very rarely in Western, Chinese and other sources. Generally, it is used to downplay the atrocities committed by the Imperial Army in the Nanjing Massacre and to focus on the purported cruelty of the Chinese army to, ironically, allow Japan to invade further into China and to criticize the Chinese for holding on to their right in defending their homeland.

Is this article neutral? Qizil bayraq 14:10, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

go read "kadzuwo's" own link and tell me if that is neutral Wareware 03:06, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The info copied to the article and the link itself are from the personal homepage of wiki user:Kadzuwo, who is known to make revisionist edits on topics such as the massacre of nanking, koreans are lying historians, and the like, and is hardly NPOV. Wareware 18:11, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Are you going to downplay this incident? To be sure, Japanese army used this incidet, but it's true that Chinese troop brutally killed Japanse and Korean citizens in the incident. There are many testimonies and photos. To neglect these is historical revisionism too. Your article is based on Chinese viewpoint only. Please, calm down. Wikipedia should not be used for propaganda of Chinese historians.

Regarding the artical and above discussion: I'm a US citizen. This is the first I've heard about the Tongzhou Incident by name. I don't have a problem with controversial subjects being in Wikipedia as long as they are labeled controversial. I tend to believe that most accepted history and most accepted science is controversial to somebody, and if it isn't, then something is wrong. It's all a matter of perspective and what you can prove. Take something dumb like my birthday for example. I don't remember when I was born, my mom doesn't remember because she was put under for the C-Section, and nobody else remembers either because it was so long ago. So all I have is a birth certificate that says I was born on such and such a date, such and such a time, at such and such a place - and all the writing on it is so unreadable it makes me wonder if I wasn't a plot hatched by the vet to drive my mother nuts.

Well, ok that's a really dumb example, but maybe 200 years from now it won't be to some historian trying to do research on babies born by C-Section (or whatever), and he or she can't prove that I ever existed.

What is really sad to me is that so many men, women, and children could die in such a bad way, and we don't know their names, their birthdates, their favorite colors, or anything at all about them. They are just a number that this person says is too low and that person says is too high. Somewhere in all the name calling, I can't help thinking that if we don't start cherishing people above governments, then we are all going to end up being such meaningless numbers. And don't yell at me for the many stupid things my country has done. I'm not a hypocrite. Mrs.C

My research into the topic has led me to believe that the validity of the article is high inaccurate. While Japanese residents were certainly killed despite having committed no wrong doing, the article fails to mention the immediate Japanese retaliation for the attack. It is said that the Japanese beheaded every man in the city and raped hundreds of women. The initial Chinese attack was the response to news that the Kwantung Army had been defeated by the Chinese National Army.--TheAznSensation 28 June 2005 05:53 (UTC)

First paragraph is definitely biased. -- Миборовский U 07:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Self contradiction
"The Tongzhou Incident (通州事件) or Tungchow Mutiny of (July, 1937)" and may have been because of the invasion and annexation of Manchuria, and the Marco Polo Bridge Incident a few years earlier. We all know that Marco Polo was on 7 July 1937. Besides, given that the "incident" is Japanese puppet forces vs Japanese forces... it's not really caused by Chinese troops, no? -- Миборо в ский 01:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Ralphrepo 23:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem that a lot of Japanese ultranationalists fail to see is that this really isn't a referendum on the Japanese, but rather one of how the Japanese people were deceived by it's own military and dragged into an unnecessary war. Aside from that, the Bridge incident occurred about three weeks earlier. Japanese "puppet" forces were nonetheless, still Chinese. Perhaps after the Bridge affair, they "came to their patriotic senses" and took revenge on the Japanese civilians? On the other hand, ample evidence of Imperial Japanese Army forces, killing Japanese civilians abound (Okinawa, Philippines) when it suited their military ends. The possibility of this being an IJA orchestraed maskirovka cannot be ignored either.

See this article
Tungchow Mutiny is based on Jowetts book that discribes the incident. This all happened within the Battle of Beiping-Tianjin.

Some 800 Nationalist troops that were camped under the city walls of Tungchow. On the 27th of July the Japanese tried to disarm them. They resisted and were cornered against the wall of the town. 500 of them were killed under the eyes of the East Hopei Army garrison of Tungchow. On the 29th, the mutiny occured with some of the KMT survivors and the East Hopei garrison. Up to 5,000 East Hopei Army troops of the 1st and 2nd Corps of the and the trainee officers in the Japanese training school revolted.

The Japanese garrison was attacked, 20 Japanese soldiers were killed and 250 Japanese civilians were massacred, with atrocities committed. Some 60 Japanese civilians who ran the puppet government survived. Most of the puppet government offices were destroyed along with most of the capital and Yin Ju-keng was captured. Japanese reinforcments put down the mutiny and rescued Yin.

I think the article here is pretty accurate. Its apparent that the slaughter of the KMT soldiers under their eyes inflamed the nationalist passions of the puppet troops. Apparently their usual mercenary lust for money was trumped by an understandable national feeling and Anti-Japanese resentment and hatred by the incident outside the walls two days before. Asiaticus 21:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)