Talk:Tony Adamle/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 14:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I will review this article.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm here to answer any issues and concerns that may arise. --Batard0 (talk) 17:04, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Toolbox issues are fine.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:41, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


 * WP:LEAD
 * Name his high school. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:45, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. --Batard0 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I would add touchdowns and maybe fumble recoveries to the infobox. I think it takes up to 6 stats. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:15, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Added. --Batard0 (talk) 12:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Early life and high school
 * Typically for a fairly modern subject GA, we would know the parents' names.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I looked around for sources and couldn't find any that say his parents' names. The cited source here only says they were from Slovenia. --Batard0 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Typically a star football player might have earned a half dozen varsity letters. Can you say anything in this regard. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I found a source saying he earned three letters in football and was named All-Ohio by the AP and UPI. I added this. --Batard0 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * When you say All-star, was there a game that might have been a precursor to the Big 33 Football Classic? --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It's possible, but I don't think so from the source. It appears to have been an all-star game played between Cleveland-area players and a team of Florida all-stars. --Batard0 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Back in the 30s and 40s people played on both offense and defense. Since he ended up being a professional linebacker, I am guessing he might have played linebacker in high school.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That's almost certainly the case. The sources I have list him as a fullback, which back then probably meant he also played on defense. I don't think the term "linebacker" was actually in use in the early 1940s, although I could be mistaken. I took a look at the sources again, and couldn't find anything discussing his play on defense in high school. --Batard0 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The term linebacker first referred to Germany Schulz, but I am not sure when its use became widespread.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:50, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that's correct. I still can't find anything referring to his defensive play in high school. --Batard0 (talk) 06:24, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Best high schooler ever? Was he All-state or All-American? --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This is a quote from the sports editor of the Cleveland Press. None of the sources say he was all-state, and all-American is usually a college honor, not a high school one. --Batard0 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Above you said he was All-state.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:25, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * My mistake – he was named All-Ohio, per the source. It's in there at the end of the section. --Batard0 (talk) 06:24, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * College and military career
 * Please use cfb link for OSU and Northwestern teams.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I linked directly to the OSU articles, as they already exist. This conforms with the cfb template guidelines. I used the template for the Northwestern link. --Batard0 (talk) 18:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you are piping them as WP:EASTEREGGs. One would be looking for an article about the CFB season the way it is piped. You should put the link under Ohio State.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Linked to "the team's 1946 season." There shouldn't be any confusion about this. As for the other one, I'm not sure how readers might expect "1942 Ohio State Buckeyes" to go to the CFB season. --Batard0 (talk) 11:39, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Please add the proper categories for his military service. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Done (I think). --Batard0 (talk) 18:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Professional career
 * With the Browns should be piped to the 47 Browns season. Similarly for other Browns seasons.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * All of the seasons are now wikilinked. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Another EASTEREGG.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:10, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Changed. There should be no confusion now. --Batard0 (talk) 11:39, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think there is some confusion in the text about which Pro Bowl is the 1951 Pro Bowl. Please explain more clearly and link accordingly. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've clarified this. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * 1951 Los Angeles Rams season is a better link than the current redirect. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Think about linking bachelor's degree and master's degree. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Also think 1954 Detroit Lions season is a better link. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The article is silent on whether he played linebacker or fullback in the 1950s. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:12, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Added a sentence and source saying he played mainly linebacker and only had three rushing attempts in the 1950s. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems unusual to me that an article would not detail exceptional performances in Pro Bowl seasons. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:14, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Indeed. He led the NFL in fumble recoveries in 1950, although there's little from 1951 that would suggest why he had such a strong season. Stats on tackles (and of course sacks) from this era don't seem to exist; the sources just say he excelled as a linebacker. I tried to put some more nuance in here. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * "All-Pro by sportswriters" begs for clarification. AP, UPI, an association? --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Put in UPI and NYDN. Also added he was a second-team all-pro by NYDN in 1950. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * How did the Browns do the year he did not play? --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Added. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify that Brown was the coach during this whole era. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Added. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * In his Pro Bowl years, how many other Browns were Pro Bowlers? --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * He was one of seven in 1950 (already in there). Added that he was one of eight in 1951. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * "Before a game against the Chicago Rockets in October 1947" -> Before the October 19, 1947 game against Chicago Rockets, the 7th game of the 14-game season, --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:38, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I put in that it was the seventh game, but the specific date in October and the fact that it was a 14-game season is unnecessary detail, in my opinion. --Batard0 (talk) 12:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you are shying away from presenting his career details because they are not superlative statistically. You need to present the highs and the lows. You need to mention his 4-interception season (it was 6th in the league). In this case, even the highs are low in some senses. You need to teach the reader what kind of player he was using stats. If you explain that in 1947 in almost all of his offensive categories, it will clarify what kind of player he wasn't. His rushing yards and receiving yards (the components of yards from scrimmage) were both career highs. He had three different types of return yards, giving him his highest all-purpose yards total. Yes we wish we had the defensive stats to show how he excelled, but lets not ignore some of the stats that we do have. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Please assume good faith. I'm trying to present his career details neutrally, in accordance with Wikipedia policy. I put in the stats you suggested, including the four-interception year. I didn't put in anything about all-purpose yards. Unless we have a source with that statistic, we're getting into WP:SYNTHESIS territory. --Batard0 (talk) 12:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the accusative tone. The important thing is to get the rushing totals included so we can understand his role given that he competed for a running back position. The second infobox link does include yards from scrimmage, but rushing yards is as good since he only had a few receptions.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:10, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Medical career
 * What medical degree? MD or something else?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I wish I could say, but all of the sources simply say "medical degree." I assume it's an M.D., but it's hard to say. I did some extra looking around and didn't turn up anything. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * link Ohio High School Athletic Association. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Images
 * The only image is PD.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Overall
 * I am very much on the fence on whether this really covers the topic. It does not tell me much about the guy as a player. I understand that he played in an era when things like tackles weren't even recorded. However, an article about a Pro Bowler should speak of his legend. He was a hart hitter, or strategic leader. As he was in a battle with Motley, you might want to mention what attributes and deficiencies each brought to the table.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * If there were information in the sources about what he was like as a hitter or tackler, I'd surely include it. I haven't been able to find any yet. I think there's a reasonable amount of detail about what he was like as a player, although as you say, one reason there's not more detail is that there aren't a lot of defensive statistics from this era. I added some more detail about how he compared with Motley, although of course that competition lasted only a short time. While I think it covers the main aspects of the topic without going into unnecessary detail, as the criteria require, I understand where you're coming from here. --Batard0 (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * For a football player who played before the 1980s when periodical archives begin to be plentiful and who does not have supporting statistical accomplishments, this is an adequate summary for GA, I guess. I am PASSing this article.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:22, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks much for the thorough review. --Batard0 (talk) 11:38, 16 October 2013 (UTC)