Talk:Tony Ferguson/Archive 1

The Ultimate Fighter biography
Tony or his father?


 * "A southern California native of Mexican heritage (They're obviously referring to Tony. Why? because he was born in, where? Oxnard! Do you guys have any idea where Oxnard is located? Correct, in southern California!!) living in a small Midwestern town (Once again, Muskegon, Michigan is the city where Tony grew up. Where is it located? Oh, that's right... in the Midwestern United States!) Ferguson’s father enrolled him in sports at a young age to help him make friends and fit into his new surroundings." (Why would his father want him to fit into his new surroundings? Could it be because Tony is a southern California native of Mexican heritage who was, at the time his family relocated to Muskegon, Michigan, unfamiliar with that midwestern town? Voila!)

It's clear that they are talking about Tony. What are the chances of his father also being born in southern California and growing up in a midwestern town as well? There's a slight chance it could be, but again, this is Tony's biography, not his father's. If they did intend to say that Tony's father is the one of Mexican heritage, they would've mentioned it something like this... "Ferguson’s father, [who is of Mexican heritage], enrolled him in sports at a young age to help him make friends and fit into his new surroundings." You don't need to be rocket scientists to figure it out. Also, don't assume someone is only part Mexican, just because they have a non-Spanish surname. It's not uncommon, as many Mexicans have non-Spanish surnames. I happen to be one of them. Capici? — Lancini87 (talk) 23:50, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Tony Ferguson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110405063742/http://www.ultimatefighter.com:80/fighter/anthony-ferguson to http://www.ultimatefighter.com/fighter/anthony-ferguson

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 22:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Interim Lightweight Title?
Why is Ferguson's fight against Khabib Nurmagomedov listed as for the "interim lightweight title"? There's not such thing right now, Conor McGregor currently holds the lightweight title (he did vacate the featherweight title due to inactivity but that is obviously another division). Edited. Philosopher2king (talk) 19:50, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Dang it, I just saw my error. The fight is indeed for the interim lightweight title. I'm glad my correction was reverted, my bad. Philosopher2king (talk) 20:03, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2018
add that max holloway was replaced with al iaquinta, and that tony was stripped of his interim title on te final line of "ultimate fighting championship" section Source for title strip :http://www.ufc.com/rankings  Perhaps, "Strip" is the wrong word, but he definitely lost his title as he is no longer listed as the interim champion on official UFC rankings. Source for updated fight: http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/23049466/max-holloway-declared-medically-unfit-fight-pulled-ufc-223-main-event Darkdogz (talk) 17:56, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  JTP (talk • contribs) 00:00, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Winner of The Ultimate Fighter season 13 in 2017?
Tony didn't win TUF in 2017, season 13 was held in 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rasmushvad (talk • contribs) 08:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * , greetings to you. The article does not state he won TUF 13 in 2017.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:40, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism
Says he won a fight he has not yet fought in Smiggles94 (talk) 19:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Reverted to revision 877671825 (User:CASSIOPEIA)
"Not in fight record table but in Championships and accomplishments section." I am sorry, but I cannot find the fight of the year mentioned in there, please point me to it if I overlooked something. Narwaro (talk) 09:55, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Greetings to you. The fight record table recorded "that fight of the night/day" For any other awards given by media/organisation, we put under the "Championships and accomplishments" section. Pls provide inline citation - see example on Ronda Rousey's page under the Championships and accomplishments "Mixed martial arts section for reference. Pop by my talk page if you have further questions. Thank you.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 10:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Tony Ferguson’s height
The user nedochan, who I believe has 0 experience and idea in the mma world , keeps on reverting Tony’s height back to 6 ft even though his height has always been listed at 5’11. Never did I once see in my life tony listed above 5’11, his ufc , ESPN, fox listings are all at 5’11. So reverting his height to 6’0 and being stubborn about something you know you are wrong about is really annoying. Furthermore, sherdog in my opinion should not be a source that Wikipedia relies on, maybe for the records yes but for the height and weight it’s very inaccurate, last week Conor McGregor’s height finally changed after 2 long months of having the world believe a false information and multiple sites don’t know much about mma but Conor is a big headliner for these sites and they all listed him at 5’8 which is ofcourse false , so we as Wikipedia mma editors should stop using sherdog’s listing height and weight As a reliable source , rather we should use other sources like the ufc itself or ESPN. Remember tony has always been listed at 5’11 so stop reverting his height back to 6’0 if you will do that you might as well revert conor’s height back to 5’8. Wikiman122112 (talk) 16:21, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Please refrain from personal attacks. The reason the CMG info was changed was that there was a discussion that led to consensus. There is a discussion taking place as to the reliability of Sherdog presently and consensus appears to be emerging that the source is indeed reliable. Your edit summaries (which aren't clear personal attacks) indicate that you believe that Sherdog has been deemed unreliable. This isn't the case. NEDOCHAN (talk) 17:21, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Let us focus on this, Tony’s height is 5’11 and not 6’ .if sherdog is indeed reliable then we will have to revert conor’s height back to 5’8. What sources do you need more that ESPN, ufc ,and fox to believe that tony is 5’11. If you will revert his 5’11 listing I will have to revert Conor height back to 5’8 because according to you. Sherdog is reliable Wikiman122112 (talk) 17:30, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Erm, no. Consensus is what counts.NEDOCHAN (talk) 17:40, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


 * If you issue another personal attacks I will take it to ANI. I hate ANI but I don't need to put up with your insults.NEDOCHAN (talk) 17:46, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Lol I didn’t Issue a personal attack on my last paragraph, you are just a bit too much of a snowflake. Anyways Where is the consensus, this vandalism from you needs to stop , get me the link to consensus and we will talk there and reach a new consensus to this matter Wikiman122112 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:01, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Reluctantly, I will take another tack. NEDOCHAN (talk) 18:23, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

New height edit with note, similar to Dan Henderson page
The height is 5’11 since his Ufc fight cards list him at that .a 6’0 listing is in the notes anyways so why revert it. It’s in the notes and the Sherdog source is there. Don’t see why would you feel the need to revert. It’s the same situation with Dan Henderson’s height. It’s better to have a note with all possible reliable sources and avoid an edit war — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiman122112 (talk • contribs) 11:28, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Height dispute
As the protecting admin of the article I'd like to note that if there is a dispute over the subject's height and sources of equal quality differ, then both heights should be included along with the corresponding source. This allows readers to understand there are conflicting sources and is how such statistical discrepancies are generally handled in BLPs. -- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 23:57, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

D'Arce Choke / Brabo Choke
I have been trying to change the name of the method of finish in the "Mixed martial arts record" for the fights against Mike Rio, Edson Barbosa and Lando Vannata from "Submission (Brabo Choke)" to "Submission (D'Arce Choke)", but you keep reverting my changes.

The Wikipedia WP:MMA guidelines clearly state that "In the column Method, unless sources within the body text of the article state otherwise, always use the result that is available in a fighter's record at Sherdog Fight Finder. Do not use your interpretation of a fight result in the record, as the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Any result that is not referenced or that is not the same as in Sherdog, must be returned to how it is described in Sherdog."

In this instance, the sources within the body text of the article clearly state otherwise. Under the "Ultimate Fighting Championship" section, the method of finish for the fights against Mike Rio, Edson Barbosa and Lando Vannata are clearly stated as D'Arce choke. I have copied the extracts from the body text below:

''After over a year away from competition while healing an arm injury incurred in his last fight, Ferguson returned to face Mike Rio on October 19, 2013, at UFC 166.[20] He won by D'Arce choke submission in the first round. The win also earned him his first Submission of the Night award.[21]

Ferguson was expected to face Khabib Nurmagomedov on December 11, 2015, at the Ultimate Fighter 22 Finale.[35] However, Nurmagomedov pulled out of the fight in late October, citing injury, and was replaced by Edson Barboza.[36] After a back-and-forth first round that had Ferguson docked one point due to an illegal upkick, Ferguson finished Barboza with a D'Arce choke submission in the second round.[37] He earned his third consecutive Performance of the Night bonus as well as a Fight of the Night bonus.[38]

Ferguson was expected to face Michael Chiesa on July 13, 2016, at UFC Fight Night 91.[43] However, Chiesa pulled out of the fight on June 27, citing injury, and was replaced by promotional newcomer Lando Vannata.[44][45] Ferguson won his second straight fight via D'Arce choke and was awarded another Fight of the Night bonus.[46][47]''

Having a different name for the method of finish in the body text of the article and the Mixed Martial Arts record causes confusion to the reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alec96k (talk • contribs) 01:41, 26 May 2021 (UTC)


 * You've correctly identified that we go by the Sherdog source. It's here. https://m.sherdog.com/fighter/record/Tony-Ferguson-31239 . You'll notice that it's in accordance with what's written. Thanks.NEDOCHAN (talk) 13:51, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * We do not always go by the Sherdog source, we go by the majority of significant independent reliable sources. Sherdog just usually happens to be an independent WP:RS. But that is not always the case. –– FormalDude''' ( talk ) 00:01, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I think it should be listed as D'Arce choke, majority of sources have it as that. RafaelHP (talk) 05:21, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Alright here are the results and sources for the win over Mike Rio, I wasn't actually able to find any sources that listed it as Brabo choke. And as for the Vanatta and Barboza fights, I'll make tables for those tomorrow its kinda late over here haha.

RafaelHP (talk) 07:00, 1 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the info above. I would like let you know that Brobo choke is the same choke as D'arce choke. The correct/proper name is Brabo choke while D'arce choke name is from Joe D'Arce, who is not the inventor of the choke; however, he merely popularized its use in competitions. - see the source here. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia(talk) 07:32, 1 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I know but most people know it as D'Arce choke, as per indicated by the sources. Which is why I would like it changed. It's the same thing with the Von Flue choke, Jason Von Flue didn't invent it, but he did popularize it and everyone calls it the Von Flue choke. RafaelHP (talk) 17:13, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Here are the sources for the Edson Barboza fight.

RafaelHP (talk) 09:17, 2 August 2021 (UTC)


 * After doing some research I've discovered that Brabo choke and D'Arce choke are actually slightly different. Brabo choke is used in gi BJJ and requires you to actually grip your opponents gi, in contrast to the D'Arce choke which does not. Seeing as how mixed martial arts is no gi, it should be refered to as D'Arce choke. RafaelHP (talk) 15:54, 8 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I found this source for your claim above. The thing is that in Wikipedia, it is not about the truth - see But it's true! but it is all about verifiability from independent, reliable source. Once you obtain the sources for Ferguson vs. Lando Vannata, kindly add to this thread so we may close this discussion. Stay safe and best.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:105%;color:#FF8000"> Cassiopeia</b>   talk  01:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)



RafaelHP (talk) 05:26, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Ok. Change to D'arce choke for the three fights. Pls also make sure the body text source align with the fight table indicates Darce choke when the discussion is closed in next few days. Thank you very much for finding the sources. Stay safe and best.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:105%;color:#FF8000"> Cassiopeia</b>  talk  05:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

He only had 2 Knockout losses not 3
Read the title 2A02:810B:C3C0:6D4:30CD:86E3:26AC:69B1 (talk) 10:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Massive concern re: his real name in the article
Per policy, we do not do original research, and we are especially restrictive with Biographies of Living Persons. Please see WP:BLP. Unless his real name is used often in independent journalistic sources, it shouldn't be in this article, per WP:DOX. Doing indepedent research to reflect his real name via Commission documents is inappropriate. I am deleting this for now. --Sorry sir, that&#39;s classified information (talk) 05:10, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:DOX explicitly does not apply to BLP articles, and it is not independent research to uncover valid sources.   Ravenswing     02:36, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit request
'Ferguson has written on his Twitter account that he eschews sparring in training as he "finds it limits my creativity" when fighting.'

This is incorrect and not backed up by the source. He eschews HARD sparring, not sparring altogether. Huge difference.88.115.35.160 (talk) 01:30, 13 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Since the only source (atm) is a WP:TWEET, I think it can be removed per WP:PROPORTION. That he tweeted it doesn't mean it has to be in the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Submission vs Technical submission
Tony Ferguson was choked unconscious by jamie toney in a 2009 fight.

Wikipedia had it incorrectly labeled a submission, instead of a technical submission

Technical submission (copied from the Submission (combat sports) Wikipedia page   A technical submission may occur when the referee stops the fight because a fighter has sustained an injury like a broken limb or is rendered unconscious while in a submission hold.

My edit was backed up by sportskeeda and by the video of the fight itself

https://www.sportskeeda.com/player/tony-ferguson Loss 7–2   Jamie Toney Technical Submission (triangle choke)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZW_kQf4Tpw (video of the fight)

Another editor smeared my edit as vandalism, and kept reverting it, seemingly as a matter of pride.

I would appreciate if a third party could review the information and correct the page. The truth matters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NewJellyBean987 (talk • contribs) 04:08, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The question of whether it was vandalism isn't what I'm here to decide, however it is important to note that sources you have cited for this fight result are WP:NOTRELIABLE. YouTube is not considered reliable because most of the videos on the site are self published, anonymous, and unverifiable, see WP:RSPYT. There is also a consensus that Sportskeeda is considered unreliable, see here. It's also important to cite WP:BUTITSTRUE as it applies heavily to this situation. Wikipedia is about being a high quality encyclopedia, which includes a set of guidelines and rules that conflicts with the truth. It's not so much about the truth as it is what the reliable sources say. So for example you may have a video of the fight in which Ferguson does not tap and it is ruled a Technical Submission, but if multiple reliable sources have it as Submission, then we will go with Submission. Hope this helps. <b style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:110%;color:#E285FF"> ♡RAFAEL♡</b>(<b style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color#FF00FF">talk</b>) 05:09, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2022
Change "Feguson lost the fight via a guillotine choke submission in the fourth round" to "Ferguson lost the fight via a guillotine choke submission in the fourth round" 2A00:23C5:B0B:1301:F4D4:DDFC:A6A3:1BD5 (talk) 10:08, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ -MPGuy2824 (talk) 11:22, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Different records
The record shown in the article and the one shown during his entrances are different. He has one victory more in the official record shown by UFC. Why is it so? Akaan327 (talk) 06:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)


 * He had writen to have 11 victories via KO and 9 via submission which isnt true so i fixed to 12 via KO and 8 via submission per sherdog. DarkHorseMayhem (talk) 21:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That is not what i was asking you. I meant where does the UFC get their info from? Akaan327 (talk) 21:41, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * And anyway if he has 12 wins by kos and 8 by submission instead of 11 and 9 it still equals 20. Like two plus two make four. But what is it extra fight and how was it finished? Akaan327 (talk) 21:54, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I honestly dont know what you talking about. Do you have any link that is stated that he have additional fight so i can see and check? DarkHorseMayhem (talk) 21:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Losing Streak Section.
It's f-up how you guys created a losing streak section in his page. And its more f-up that you guys ANNOUCED HIS NEXT BOUT IN THE LOSING STREAK SECTION LOL, as if he was unable to win fights anymore and it would be more convinient to just leave his next fight in the losing streak section. I think Tony deserves more respect than that, for he is a legend of the sport. I know he lost 5 times in a row and he is probably about to retire, but he also won 12 times in a row in his prime (yet there is no winning streak section). Procrastinante42 (talk) 15:27, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * He has lost six in a row now. He is currently on a losing streak. If he wins, it can be changed. Your opinion is valid. I added a "win streak" subheading in the part after he lost to Michael Johnson to note when his win streak started. Marty2Hotty (talk) 16:38, 30 July 2023 (UTC)