Talk:Tony Hancock/Archive 1

Corrected details
Changes made 12/5/2005. Hancock died on 24th June and not 26th as previously written.

I changed "a RAF regiment" -> "the RAF Regiment". In any case you can't say "a RAF", it would be "an". However, more serious is the fact that there aren't a load of them so you can't say he just joined one of them - there is only one, a fighting force called "The RAF Regiment", and that is what is appears he joined. 82.35.17.203 18:18, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The section about The Punch and Judy Man doesn't really sound unbiased, not least "The film's humour is bitter-sweet and nicely understated and perfectly tailored to British audiences. American audiences might not understand it."... even given the context (H's failure to break into the US) it needs revising.

Bold textHancock Bio Movie?

I saw a movie about Tony Hancock back in 1990-91. I can't remember what it was called and can't find any info on it, if anyone knows anything about this please inform.


 * There were a couple, mainly made for TV. Paul Merton the UK Tv comedian models himself on TH and has tried to do a couple of the scripts as well. I listened to TH on the radio in the 50's when i was 10 years old, he was my first hero..... Lincolnshire Poacher 17:30, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The Merton shows were made in about 1996. You're probably thinking of a BBC Screen One film from 1991/92 called "Hancock" with Alfred Molina. JW 5 July 2005 00:46 (UTC)

Pruning needed
''It is doubtful if there still are people who find patterns not intended in the wallpaper – Laurence Llewellyn-Bowen and numerous makeover clones have put a stop to that. In the not too distant past some clever publishers made quite a little industry of the "hidden picture" phenomenon – would they have been able to do that if there were still had bunches of grapes wallpapers rather than magnolia walls with a dado rail to stare at? Is staring into space a lost art? The frustrating experience of someone not seeing what we think we are seeing and the final "wait till you want me to see something" perfectly encapsulates the wearisome nature of such a futile enterprise.''

This may be an interesting philophical musing but it will make absolutely no sense at all to anyone who has not heard the relevant episode. With this discussion of the Sunday Afternoon at Home episode -- just one among dozens episodes he made -- we have strayed a long way from the subject (Hancock's Peak Years), and it's a long way from being encyclopaedic. With respect to its author, it should be deleted and the rest of the aricle heavily pruned for relevance and comprehensibility. Flapdragon 12:24, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. It's very well written and interesting but a bit too exhaustive, and goes off at a tangent more than once. I made a slight alteration to remove a POV, but it does need some editing. JW 5 July 2005 00:46 (UTC)

Roger Hancock
Agent to Hancock scriptwriter Terry Nation. I read recently that he was Tony's brother. I had not heard this before 2005 so find it hard to believe that nobody would have mentioned it. Is it correct? DavidFarmbrough 09:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, quite true, see the Wilmut book, and I think confirmable via web sources also. Philip Cross 14:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Agent to many other notable showbusiness people too: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/roger-hancock-agent-who-guided-many-showbiz-careers-and-protected-legacy-his-brother-tony-2313129.html 2.28.151.178 (talk) 19:36, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Introspection: use of actors
In this section, it is stated that Hancock began using actors for roles such as policemen, rather than using Kenneth Williams for these parts, in his last television series. I'm pretty sure that this actually began in his sixth (and final) radio series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvmodel (talk • contribs) 21:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * A citation for Hancock's views on realism is given in Nathan and Hancock's biography. I'll try to hunt this up Chrismorey (talk) 07:55, 20 July 2015 (UTC) - dpne, as work was already cited

POV
This section is so much POV I don't know where to begin. Even though it is possibly right and an accurate assesment of The Punch & Judy Man's failure, it is equally possible that the film failed because it wasn't that good. To change this section to a neutral POV is difficult. Nevertheless I am having a go at this today. Any further revisions in the same vein (i.e. removing POV but keeping something of the comment) will be gratefully received!

"Hancock always dreamed of being a major international star, but tradition holds that he failed to realise how uniquely British his style of humour was; too uniquely British, that is, to have universal appeal. This was demonstrated by his second starring vehicle, The Punch and Judy Man (1962), in which he plays a struggling seaside entertainer who dreams of a better life; Sylvia Syms plays his nagging social climber of a wife, and John Le Mesurier plays a sand sculptor. The film's humour is bittersweet and understated and was perfectly tailored to a particular British audience of the time. The vast American entertainment industry, whose moguls were used to a more brash style of humour, dismissed it as slow-moving and dull. His BBC shows were, however, frequently broadcast in Australia and Canada." DavidFarmbrough 10:17, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

East Cheam
If East Cheam is next to Carshalton, what happened to Sutton ? -- Beardo 06:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Have changed it.


 * Incidentally it's debateable as to how far East Cheam "exists" in the present day. There was a village of East Cheam centuries ago, but in the late 16th century it was aquired by the owners of West Cheam and the two slowly merged into the larger parish of Cheam. Nowadays it would probably be West Sutton and St Dunstan’s Hill area. There are present day organisations and estate agents who use the term "East Cheam" but I'm not sure how many of these aren't just capitalising on the Hancock connection. "Welcome to Hancock's world" from the Sutton/Epsom Guardian Timrollpickering 00:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

East Cheam never existed in reality. The point was that Cheam was posh and trendy at the time, and Hancock rationalised that the character wasn't quite smart enough to get into Cheam, so he made it East Cheam, making him just fail at that a well. 82.21.206.85 (talk) 21:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Suicide
I think the article never mentions, but should, the method of suicide. Every other notable person who has committed suicide (as far as i have seen), mentions at least in passing the method. --Storkk 00:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree. I inserted a reference to this, but it was deleted. The story confirms his intensely self-critical nature. When they found him dead in his hotel room, the TV was still on, at the channel where his show had just been broadcast. Obviously he had viewed it, and it brought it home to him how low he'd sunk. Then he took the overdose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.247.240 (talk) 16:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

The reference as it is currently is incorrect, i.e. that Hancock overdosed on amphetamines, which is clearly an impractical way to kill yourself. The tablets were barbiturates - sleeping pills; anyone want to correct this, or shall I? reineke (talk) 14:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

"... the TV was still on, at the channel where his show had just been broadcast. Obviously he had viewed it, and it brought it home to him how low he'd sunk". Well, no. Certainly, it's a nice romantic notion - but his program was still in pre-production, and hadn't aired; a 60 second clip from it was shown as part of a tribute the night his body was discovered. The three completed episodes wouldn't air until January 1972. There were no Hancock programs screening on Sydney TV the night he took the overdose, nor in the week leading up to it. Chris Keating (talk) 05:19, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hancock.jpg
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Legacy
The Libertines link as in Pete Doherty's former band takes you to The Liberties as in Dublin 8

Technical error
in the passage:

"Returning home with his wife from recording "The Bowmans" episode, a parody of The Archers, Hancock was involved in a minor car accident. He was not badly hurt, despite going through the car windscreen, but he did suffer concussion and he was unable to learn his lines for "The Blood Donor", the next episode to be recorded. The result was that Hancock had to perform by reading from teleprompters (TV monitors displaying the relevant sections of script). Viewers of the programme may notice that he is not always looking at the other actors, but in another direction entirely. Hancock came to rely on teleprompters instead of learning scripts whenever he had career difficulties."

IN fact the use of teleprompts was still in its infancy, and limited to news programs and announcers. Hancock used 'Idiot Boards', large sheets of white cardboard with the lines written on.

This article also fails to place sufficient recognition to certain advancements made by Hancock in the way sitcoms were made, which are historically important. Until Hancock came along, all TV comedy programs were made 'live', with multiple sets, and switched between sets masked by various devices, such as in Jimmy Edwards series 'Whacko', where the few seconds taken to whisk all the cameras over to the next set were hidden by insert shots of the school clock. Hancock rejected this Heath Robinson method of production and eventually pioneered the technique of recording on 16mm film stock, and then cutting the scenes together, in the same way a film is made.

Hancock, along with Galton and Simpson, were also the first persons on UK television to be paid more than £1000 for a single episode.

Hancock also championed the use of straight actors instead of comic actors to make the comedy 'realistic' - all the actors in the Blood Donor, for example, such as June Whitfield and Patrick Cargill, were straight actors. The idea was taken to its conclusion by Galton and Simpson in Steptoe and Son, but the concept was entirely Hancocks.
 * June Whitfield is surely the epitome of a comedy, rather than a straight, actor? A case could also be made that Kenneth Williams was a straight actor, with acclaimed performances as the Dauphin in Bernard Shaw's St Joan, and his radio performance of Gogol’s Diary of a Madman, so perhaps the distinction is not as clear as is being suggested here? Jock123 (talk) 14:27, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * John Le Mesurier and Jack Watling (from "The Lift") were certainly (quite famous) straight actors though. Even if Le Mesurier later came to fame in one comic role (Dad's Army), at the time he often played criminals and shady - if refined - villains in films and series like "The Avengers". 2.28.151.178 (talk) 19:42, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Hancock, and Galton and Simpson, invented the modern situation comedy in the format it is still used to this day. And that demands recognition, because that is Hancocks true legacy to us. Without Hancock there wouldn't have been any of the magnificent comedy of the 70's, 80's and 90's, in the form it was. Even John Cleese, arguably the finest comedy writer of the latter part of the 20th Century, acknowledges Hancock, and takes Hancocks invention to its pinnacle in 'Fawlty Towers', the 12 definitive textbook examples of how to write sit com, which all budding script writers should read, learn and understand. 82.23.22.234 (talk) 15:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Six new episodes
The BBC just announced, without many details, that they have found six episodes of hancocks half hour. not sure if they mean the radio or tv yet. Galton and Simpson are going to be on the wireless on PM Radio 4 Monday 15 June you should get it from download if you are british sometimes the bbc block it from outside britain cos of rights issues (see PRS).

I will add once I know more just wantedto make a note. SimonTrew (talk) 16:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Telerecordings
I have amended slightly the statement that programs were prerecorded using telerecordings (film from cathode-ray-tube): telerecordings (which were of decidedly inferior quality) were made of many episodes for sale abroad, and would have been used for repeats, but all transmissions were live until December 1958 when just four were prerecorded on 35mm telerecordings. The first Ampex video tape machines arrived that year: they were intended for Sport, but in 1959 producer Duncan Wood persuaded the BBC to allow Hancock to use them. He also demonstrated - against engineering advice - that it was possible to physically edit the tape to enable recording in sections and later assembly. RFWilmut (talk) 15:46, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Hancock's Last Half Hour
Surprised that while most screen biographies are listed, there is no mention of Heathcote William’s 1977 play "Hancock's Last Half Hour", set in the run up to his suicide. Originally staged with Henry Woolf as Hancock, Jim McManus (a good actor and a virtual Hancock lookalike) continued in the part on stage, taking it to the National Thatre. I believe that the BBC made a TV adaptation of it (I’ve certainly seen it on TV, but it could have been on ITV), again with McManus as Hancock, and a further radio version, with Richard Briers in the lead rôle. It has also been presented on the Edinburgh Fringe 88.109.12.168 (talk) 21:07, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Picture caption
This caption appears to be meaningless 86.145.156.23 (talk) 14:12, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Homosexuality?
This sentence began the 'personal life' section before I removed it (again):"Hancock was rumored to be a closet homosexual. ( - no longer freely available online)"

What is a tendentious claim should not be at the beginning of the section for reasons of the undue weight it is given. We are supposed to deal in facts on WP, not report rumours. The veracity of the unofficial police sources Cliff Goodwin interviewed has been questioned, and John Fisher considered the evidence to be "inconclusive", as Maconie admits in his piece. Philip Cross (talk) 03:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Early Career
We're told he left school at fifteen, and joined the RAF in 1942, when he would have been eighteen. That leaves out three years, that might be of interest. Valetude (talk) 03:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Place of death 98 - 181 Birriga rd or Latimer rd?
Can anyone provide the exact address where Tony was living at the time of his passing?

I have heard/read he was living at 98 and/or 181 Birriga Road, while another source suggest he was living on Latimer Road (just off Birriga rd).

Would be good to know for the sake of historical accuracy.

Cheers, from a Hancock fan in Eastern Sydney. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.119.17.97 (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Transportation of Ashes Clarification
The article suggests the first class transportation of his ashes was related to Mr. Hancock's love of cricket, which might be an erroneous relation to the way in which the ashes were, many years later (1988 and 2006), transported to Australia in their own first class seat. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/6052544.stm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.64.31.132 (talk) 10:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Weird sentence
His ashes were brought back to the UK by satirist Willie Rushton in an Air France hold-all, in the first-class cabin in deference to his fame and love of cricket


 * What on earth does the 2nd part mean? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  06:02, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * First-class because of his fame and cricket because of the ashes being transported from Australia, I guess (see The Ashes for explanation of the term's origins). MFlet1 (talk) 11:53, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I know all about The Ashes, but I fail to see the relevance. He was English and he died in Australia, but so what? One doesn't have to be a cricket lover to have one's ashes brought back to one's homeland.  The way it's written, it says that the first class cabin was a tribute to his love of cricket as well as a tribute to his fame.  That doesn't make any sense to me at all.  Surely, all that's encyclopaedically relevant here is the fact that his ashes were returned to England, and perhaps we can mention Rushton.  But the name of the airline, and which section of the plane Rushton sat in, are excruciatingly trivial and unnecessary.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  12:34, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, probably. I suppose you have to go back to the source to get the full relevance/explanation, but unfortunately it's a print source and not online.  MFlet1 (talk) 12:51, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm being bold and removing the offending words. Thanks.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  13:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

“The Missing Hancocks”
In 2014, five of the wiped Hancock's Half Hour radio shows, chosen by Galton and Simpson, were re-staged for BBC Radio 4 under the umbrella title The Missing Hancocks, with Kevin McNally taking the title role. Were the episodes actually wiped, or were they just lost somehow? There’s no prior mention in the article to give the remark context, and as the programmes would have been on transcription discs rather than tape, is “wiped” strictly correct anyway? Furthermore, it might be useful to give the background to the re-stagings, which only came about because actor, producer and rare book-dealer Neil Pearson was offered a collection of scripts, among which were twenty Hancock scripts which, upon his checking, corresponded to those missing from the BBC archive. The five that were chosen were done in consultation with Galton & Simpson, who attended one of the audience recordings, but with an eye to what seemed most practical - so not utilising the scripts where Harry Secombe stood in for Hancock, who had left the country unexpectedly - and in light of cast availability. The initial five were followed by three further series (the last of which has been recorded but not yet broadcast at the time of this writing), including in the third series the addition to the cast of Andy Secombe, playing his father, to cover the episodes from Hancock’s absence, which completes the available scripts, and fills all the gaps. In 2015 a selection of four scripts which had not yet been re-recorded at that time, were staged by the new radio cast at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe as two alternating programmes (Show A and Show B) of two episodes each. Jock123 (talk) 21:58, 27 September 2017 (UTC)


 * This issue may need to be covered in an entirely separate article, and linked from this article. You comment "as the programmes would have been on transcription discs rather than tape, is 'wiped' strictly correct anyway?" No, this incorrect. All bar one of the surviving episodes from the first three series exist because of the TS issues; the lost episodes were never issued to overseas broadcasters and would originally have been recorded on tape by both the BBC's domestic and overseas departments. See the BBC Transcription Services article as well as Hancock's Half Hour. Philip Cross (talk) 22:20, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Infobox issue
Does anyone know why the end year of Hancock's second marriage is showing as invalid year? I've tried reformatting it but nothing seems to work, though when I copy the infobox into my sandbox it seems to work fine. But the error disappears if you change it to, say, 1967 - which makes me think it has a problem with the marriage end year being the same as the person's date of death. MFlet1 (talk) 12:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Seems to be working OK now. MFlet1 (talk) 15:20, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

George Arliss impression
And who can forget Hancock's disastrous impression of Arliss at 'Hancock at the Royal Festival Hall' 1966. Without Galton and Simpson he had evidently fallen back on his variety routines of the late 1940's. Most of Hancock's fan base were wartime and post war baby boomers - there was desultory laughter petering out to puzzled clapping - they had never heard of George Arliss (and neither had I and half the country watching on TV). 'What do you mean - never heard of him. He only died 40 years ago' quipped Hancock (though in fact it was only 20 years).109.144.208.77 (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)