Talk:Tonya Harding/Archive 2

Is Tonya Harding's middle name Maxine or Maxene?
There seems to be some confusion concerning the spelling of Tonya Harding's middle name. Is is Maxine or Maxene? Along time ago, I changed the spelling from Maxene to Maxine, but it was put back to Maxene again. When you click on the following link, you will see a list of thousands of names for baby girls. There is listing for Maxine, but no listing for Maxene:

http://www.avss.ucsb.edu/NameFema.HTM

I have NEVER seen this name spelled Maxene. If Maxene is the correct spelling, the name might be unique to Tonya Harding. The only way to verify the spelling is to contact Tonya Harding herself, or to contact Tonya's mother LaVona Golden.

I am really curious to find out if "Maxene" is correct or incorrect.

Anthony22 (talk) 15:52, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on Tonya Harding. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509081550/http://www.tonyaharding.com/biography.htm to http://www.tonyaharding.com/biography.htm

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Tonya Price
According to today's New York Times, she is now married and goes by her married name of Tonya Price. How can we adjust the article to reflect this? Nixon Now (talk) 19:21, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Titles
In the first paragraph is writen. Quote: "Harding was also a two-time Olympian and a two-time Skate America Champion." The chart below shows that harding never won an Olympian title .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.63.201.174 (talk) 07:35, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

I believe that the term Olympian simply acknowledges she competed in the 1992 and 1994 Winter Olymics (finishing 4th and 8th). I believe it could be made clearer by someone familiar with the skating and Olympic cultures lingo but it does not say she was an Olympic titleist. --Naaman Brown (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

The lede is very bad
Tony Harding is only known by the wider world because of the attack on Kerrigan, but this fact is hidden in the lede by very ambiguous language. This needs to be fixed. Ashmoo (talk) 12:00, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * This article must adhere to the Wikipedia standard of biographies of living persons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons It's not the goal of a Wikipedia article to portray the subject based on what popular opinion assumes.  It should be remembered that being "famous" is not a criterion of having one's own Wikipedia biographical article.  One need merely to be notable in one's own field,  and Tonya became a notable in her field in 1991 (three years before the attack on Kerrigan) when she became the national champion and the second woman (and first female American) to land the triple axel in competition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kny7dCW0h5w  she undoubtedly gained far more mainstream fame during the build up to the 1994 winter Olympics,  but she wouldn't have been headed towards those Olympics if not for having already been notable in her field.  It is simply within the parameters of a Wikipedia BLP  standards to mention what made her notable in her field to begin with. The attack on Nancy Kerrigan was not the sum-total of her life experience.  You cannot write a Wikipedia biography of a living person and list only one aspect of a person's life.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Copy Editor (talk • contribs) 23:17, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Undue weight
It appears to me that it is undue weight to give an entire section called "series of incidents." These incidents usually happened in the context of her competitions, which she usually won. I think these should be integrated into the larger body of the article. It seems unfair to give them an entire section of their own. Skatefan2014 (talk) 22:04, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've taken the liberty of removing the section titled "series of incidences." As Tonya and Nancy are forever linked, it seems only fair to me that their pages be used as comparisons for one another. While Nancy's page does have a section about controversy she endured after the Olympics, there is no section in her article to match the "series of incidences" section in Tonya's article. And the post-Olympics controversy in Tonya's life is covered very well in the article already, integrated into the body of the section about the controversy in 1994 (as well as the "later celebrity" section: ). It just seems to be on the verge of defamation of character to have a section which consists of nothing more than a list of every misdeed in Tonya's career. We need to remember that this is a biography of a living person! Skatefan2014 (talk) 18:24, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding? If it weren't for those incidents, Tonya Harding would be another in a list of thousands of Olympians that nobody's ever heard of. She's not famous, she's notorious. She chose that route, and it's completely accurate and correct that she be shown in her Wikipedia to be the infamous figure that she truly has become.

"ARE YOU KIDDING," you do know your name, right? So sign it. By the way, your comments have a wee POV problem in that you fiercely accuse Harding of mayhem without proof. Once and for all: she has never, ever, admitted to knowing in advance that her idiot husband was planning the attack. Nor does any proof exist that she did know. Her husband claimed that she did, after his lawyer explained to him the plea-bargaining benefits if he threw Harding to the wolves.And that is all we know for sure. Younggoldchip (talk) 17:17, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Attack on Kerrigan subsection: more undue weight
I believe another instance of undue weight is the subsection "Attack on Kerrigan." I'm not arguing that the attack shouldn't be mentioned. Obviously, it should be mentioned. I'm arguing that it is mentioned in the wrong section. The subsection "Attack on Kerrigan" is under the main header titled "Skating career," giving the false impression that the attack on Kerrigan was a part of Tonya's career -- which seems to imply that Tonya herself attacked Kerrigan! (Sarah Marshall writes that this is a new morph of the 1994 attack, some people believing Tonya did it herself. ) Kerrigan's page devotes an entire main section to the attack, with the general title of "January 1994 attack": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Kerrigan#January_1994_attack. I propose a similarly neutral section on this Tonya Harding page. Skatefan2014 (talk) 02:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Tonya Harding was not merely "implicated" in the attack, she was charged, convicted, and sentenced in a court of law. More on that (https://www.yahoo.com/news/never-seen-evidence-emerges-case-171446528.html).  Attempts to diminish her role require both suspension of logic and willful ignorance of the facts.2601:281:C204:6170:F189:6463:4956:BE58 (talk) 19:31, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Tonya Harding has never been found guilty of the attack. She was found guilty of obstructing justice by attempting to protect her ex-husband, after learning of his involvement. Younggoldchip (talk) 17:22, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Change her name to: Tonya Price (Harding)
There was a mobile edit that changed Tonya's last name to Price without explanation and did not filter the entire article for the change either. I was going to revert as vandalism until I read the source HERE of the statement from this article that she had been remarried. In her own words.. "My name is Tonya Price." This is a BLP and it should properly reflect that living person. I do not know the proper way to adjust this article to display her name correctly and not undermine the content or alter the identity. Requesting editor help. ---> Darryl.P.Pike (talk) 18:28, 1 April 2018 (UTC)


 * In the article that you quoted, she also goes on to say that although she goes by her married name of Price these days, they should still use the name Harding because that is what people are familiar with. (I would also add that for part of her skating career she went by a third name, Tonya Harding Gillooly.)  When introducing herself on Dancing with the Stars earlier today in this video she refers to herself twice as 'Tonya Harding' and never as 'Tonya Price'.  It seems to me that given that 'Tonya Harding' seems to be the named used in most 'notable' contexts, the article should primarily refer to her as 'Tonya Harding' while noting that she also goes by her married name of 'Tonya Price'.  Dash77 (talk) 01:19, 14 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Quote from source:

“But you should use Tonya Harding in your story,” she said. I told her I probably can’t; if her name is Tonya Price I should call her Tonya Price — paper of record and all that. She objected. “But Tonya Harding is who people know.” Which is a good point. She is Tonya Price but you cannot deny that she is also Tonya Harding. This is basically how this entire story goes: There are facts, and then there is the truth, and you can’t let one get in the way of the other or you’ll never understand what she’s trying to tell you.


 * Our article does not reflect the duality of Tonya in the manner of which she infers here and the author coveys to us so well. I am not saying a major overhaul is needed in any way but rather that the hard-line tone to her identity could be softened some.  Watching the video I get the feel like she is playing the role of Harding, doing her job as an entertainer and promoting the product she represents to attract an audience.  That is the duality I refer to.  This is a biography, not entertainment, and she is a living person which means as she changes and progresses in life so does the article.  The names could be applied with one as opposed to the other, or some cases all three might be appropriate to use in order to present better identity.  This is a conversation to encourage future edits of this article to mesh additional facets of the person who was involved in an infamous event and the aftermath of it from the position of "That was then.  This is now". --->  Darryl.P.Pike (talk) 16:48, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

January 1994 incident
Seriously? Tonya Harding wouldn't be known by ANYONE today if it weren't for her involvement in the attack on Nancy Kerrigan, and her Wikipedia article buries this as "January 1994 incident"? I should go check OJ Simpson's Wikipedia page to see if it says, "Alleged scuffle with wife and waiter."

"SERIOUSLY," do you have a name? Do you exist in real life? If you do, then sign your freaking name to your posts. That way, we know you're not some elf cutely hopping in and out of Wikipedia controversies without leaving the imprint of its tiny foot. Thank you. Younggoldchip (talk) 17:09, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the attack on Nancy Kerrigan is what Tonya Harding is best known for and deserves more prominence in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.106.131.204 (talk) 18:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Tonya Harding became notable in her field in 1991 when she was the first American female to land the triple axel in competition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8xdflx1Q0s She became notable in her field three years before the attack on Nancy Kerrigan, which occurred in 1994. Tonya's connection to the attack on Nancy Kerrigan -- an attack that Tonya herself did not perform -- is not all that Tonya is notable for. Further, Tonya herself did not perform the attack on Nancy Kerrigan, and Tonya was never accused of personally performing the attack. The man who did perform the attack, Shane Stant, recently told Inside Edition that he never even met Tonya Harding, was never even in the same room with her, and no one ever said to him "this is what Tonya wants you to do": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx6bWVP4U5U Tonya was never found guilty of helping plan the attack. All she pled guilty to was hindering prosecution, which means that she didn't come forward as soon as she learned what had happened "after-the-fact." This is a biography of a living person and therefore must adhere to these rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons There is absolutely no comparison possible between the situation with Tonya Harding, and the situation with O.J. Simpson. Nancy Kerrigan was not Tonya Harding's wife; Nancy Kerrigan was not murdered, and Tonya was never on trial for murder. Andrew Parodi (talk) 03:13, 20 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this. In view of where her skating talent (triple axel) might have led her otherwise, you could almost say the incident is what she is best NOT known for - why she never became known for the real sporting thing in any lasting sense.88.111.239.43 (talk) 10:51, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Excessive detail and close paraphrasing
Recent edits have caused this article to balloon in size and detail to the point of being almost unreadable. The amount of quotes from various sources are almost certainly a violation of WP:MOSQUOTE, and border on a possible copyright issue. In some instances I have found very close paraphrasing. Some points are reinforced with five or six references or even more, which is totally unnecessary and creates a huge amount of clutter on the page both for readers and other editors. I'm seeking input from other editors - I believe the article needs a good chainsawing, but I don't want to start hacking without consensus. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 07:32, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Academic Sources
I don't think an undergraduate's paper is an appropriate source. Maxvgc (talk) 23:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Is Tonya Harding's middle name Maxine or Maxene?
Tonya Harding's Wikipedia article gives her middle name as "Maxene", but no authentic source is given to verify the spelling of this name. If you Google "Tony Harding," you will see that umpteen articles spell the name as "Maxine". Personally, I have never seen this name spelled "Maxene" until now. Someone insisted that the correct spelling is "Maxene", but there is no verification for this. The spelling of this name deserves a reliable source.

Of course, if you want a reliable source for the spelling, you need to go directly to Tonya Harding or Lavona Golden.Anthony22 (talk) 13:45, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * "Maxene".

The new source in the Infobox for "Tonya Maxene Harding" identifies "Maxene" as the correct(?) spelling. What makes you think that the source is reliable? What makes you think that the source is correct? The name sounds like it is spelled with an "E", but it might actually be spelled with an "I". Harding's middle name is spelled "Maxine" in dozens of articles and web pages on the Internet. What makes you think that this one spelling is correct and all the others are wrong? I still think that the correct spelling is MAXINE.Anthony22 (talk) 00:46, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The New York Times is generally considered a WP:RS. TJRC (talk) 03:55, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I have seen errors and omissions in New York Times articles. They are famous for saying "All The News That's Fit To Print." What they really do is, "All The News That We Want To Print And All The News That We Want You to See." Are you naive enough to believe that the New York Times is infallible? It's rather silly to automatically classify a source as reliable or true merely because the information appeared in the New York Times.Anthony22 (talk) 12:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was under the misapprehension that you were looking for a constructive discussion. Please carry on without me. TJRC (talk) 21:09, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:07, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Tonya Harding.jpg

Can the Excessive Detail Template be removed?
I was wondering if it would be alright to remove the Excessive Detail template? Hammelsmith (talk) 09:51, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

World speed record
it's worth noting that she holds that record only because it's a class nobody else had ever made a run in. There are no other runs in the class. There was no previous record that she broke other than the one she set the year before. Jackhammer111 (talk) 20:12, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Not in cite: artistry replaced by femininity
For example, Abigail Feder wrote that there existed "overdetermined femininity in Ladies' Figure Skating...femininity and athleticism are mutually exclusive concepts in American culture."

But the actual thesis statement from the citation is this:

Why are artistry and athleticism mutually exclusive?

The source might conflate artistry and femininity along the way, but surely to replace the primary formulation in the thesis statement with the loosely equated secondary treatment is editorial POV.

This is the only instance in the source of "mutually exclusive".

I dug into this because the formulation used here is trivially false: there are many examples in women's tennis of femininity and athleticism coexisting.

I would further suggest that Martina Hingis managed to be all three, without any great difficulty (her combination of artistry with athleticism is undisputed; only her femininity came under attack from the insecure masculine fringe).

A way better analysis would be how elite athletes (of all descriptions) are subsumed into pre-existing narrative archetypes.

The Olympics are anything but a high forum of considered culture. For example, these are the same apes responsible for this jape (not suitable for world):


 * YouTube: Olympics Opening Ceremony: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO), with the specific segment staring just over 2 minutes in.

(My original direct link unhelpfully banned by Wikipedia.)

The eternal groaner, "check out Djibouti", comes around the 3 m mark.

A great example of how these narratives pervade figure skating on both sides of the aisle was the rivalry in Canada between Kurt Browning (known now as much for his choreography as his skating) and Elvis Stojko (so hyper-masculine after landing his quad-triple combination, he pretty much had to skate around in a leather jacket forevermore). As I recall it, I don't think this rivalry—as habitually commentated—evinced more nuance or cultural sensitivity than Harding–Kerrigan.

This particular citation seeks to put a much finer point on a what appears to me to be a much broader condition—without any reference to the broader condition—which I'm not sure leaves this page in a proper state of balance. &mdash; MaxEnt 20:26, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I am aware that the negative archetypes are traditionally more claustrophic and limiting for women than for men, but all the same, there's little difference in the mechanism of their application, and the men caught up in this mindless net of mass consumption don't necessarily enjoy the experience, either. &mdash; MaxEnt 20:31, 16 September 2019 (UTC)