Talk:Toothed whale

Untitled
There are two genera of sperm whale (Physeter and Kogia). Some authors consider them to belong in the same family (Physeteridae), others put Kogia in a separate family, Kogiidae. I chose the first option (very much arbitrarily, I confess :-) and hence I removed the indication that there is only one species in family Physeteridae. The alternative would have been to add Kogiidae to the list (which is surely perfectly fine, but heck one has to choose one way or the other). Tjunier 09:49, 2004 Mar 10 (UTC)


 * Hi Tjunier. You did the right thing. Could you please cast your eye over Sperm Whale family. Thanks. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 09:57, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, I just looked at Cetacea and there I found that Kogia is listed under Kogiidae. I thus chose option  #2 (add Kogiidae to the list) in order to have a coherent taxonomy.  Oh well... Tjunier 10:44, 2004 Mar 10 (UTC)

Sotalia
I have edited Sotalia (the Template:Sotalia taxonomy) to include the species Sotalia guianensis Costero. If you click on the edit tab of Sotalia you will see this edit, however Sotalia guianensis is not appearing in the taxonomic listing. Does somebody know why, and can they fix it and/or let me know how to fix this. For justification, look at the Tucuxi and Costero pages. Killidude (talk) 11:05, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Taxonomy section
I am interested as to the usage of templates for the taxonomy section of the article. Unless one knows how to edit the templates it becomes very hard to make usefull additions and corrections. for example while this is the main article for Odontoceti there is no mention at all any extinct members of the family. I was going to add family Kentriodontidae to the taxonomy but I have no idea what to do to add it. I would also not this is the only wiki article which I have come across which uses this format. --Kevmin (talk) 22:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Extinct taxa
Here are the families of extinct Odontoceti, per The paleobioloy Database and including incertae sedis taxa, which are missing from the taxonomy section. Infraorder Delphinida
 * Superfamily Delphinoidea
 * Family Albireonidae
 * Genus Albireo
 * Family Delphinidae
 * Subfamily Delphininae
 * Genus Delphinus
 * Species †Delphinus baltringii
 * Species †Delphinus delannoy
 * Species †Delphinus domeykoi
 * Subfamily Orcininae
 * Genus †Arimidelphis
 * Genus †Hemisyntrachelus
 * Subfamily Stenoninae
 * Genus †Astadelphis
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus †Anacharsis
 * Genus †Australodelphis
 * Genus Lagenorhynchus (syn. Electra, Sagmatias)
 * Species †Lagenorhynchus harmatuki
 * Family †Kentriodontidae
 * Subfamily Kentriodontinae
 * Genus Belonodelphis
 * Genus Delphinodon
 * Genus Incacetus
 * Genus Kentriodon (syn. Grypolithax)
 * Genus Macrokentriodon
 * Genus Microphocaena
 * Genus Rudicetus
 * Genus Tagicetus
 * Subfamily Lophocetinae
 * Genus Hadrodelphis
 * Genus Liolithax
 * Genus Lophocetus
 * Subfamily Pithanodelphininae
 * Genus Atocetus
 * Genus Leptodelphis
 * Genus Pithanodelphis
 * Genus Sophianacetus (syn. Mediocris)
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus Sarmatodelphis
 * Genus Kampholophos
 * Family Monodontidae
 * Subfamily Delphinapterinae
 * Genus † Denebola
 * Family † Odobenocetopsidae
 * Genus Odobenocetops
 * Family Phocoenidae
 * Subfamily Phocoeninae
 * Genus †Australithax
 * Genus †Lomacetus
 * Genus †Loxolithax
 * Subfamily Phocoeninae
 * Genus †Piscolithax (syn. Piscorhynchus)
 * Genus †Salumiphocaena
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus †Haborophocoena
 * Genus †Numataphocoena
 * Genus †Septemriocetus
 * Familia incertae sedis
 * Genus †Delphinavus
 * Genus †Graamocetus
 * Genus †Lamprolithax
 * Genus †Miodelphis
 * Genus †Nannolithax
 * Genus †Oedolithax
 * Genus †Oligodelphis
 * Genus †Palaeophocaena
 * Genus †Platylithax
 * Genus †Protodelphinus
 * Genus †Sinanodelphis
 * Superfamily Inioidea
 * Family Iniidae
 * Genus †Goniodelphis
 * Genus †Ischyrorhynchus
 * Genus †Saurocetes
 * Family Pontoporiidae
 * Subfamily Brachydelphininae
 * Genus †Brachydelphis
 * Genus †Protophocaena
 * Subfamily Pontoporiinae
 * Genus †Pliopontos
 * Genus †Pontistes
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus †Stenasodelphis
 * Superfamily Lipotoidea
 * Family Lipotidae
 * Genus †Parapontoporia
 * Superfamily incertae sedis
 * Family †Agorophiidae
 * Genus Agorophius
 * Family †Patriocetidae
 * Genus Patriocetus
 * Family †Simocetidae
 * Genus Simocetus
 * Family †Xenorophidae
 * Genus Albertocetus
 * Genus Archaeodelphis
 * Genus Xenorophus
 * Genus †Heterodelphis
 * Genus †Pachyacanthus

Infraorder Eurhinodelphinida
 * Superfamily †Eurhinodelphinoidea
 * Family Eoplatanistidae
 * Genus Eoplatanista (syn. Zignodelphis)
 * Family Eurhinodelphinidae
 * Genus Argyrocetus (syn. Doliodelphis)
 * Genus Ceterhinops
 * Genus Eurhinodelphis
 * Genus Iniopsis
 * Genus Macrodelphinus
 * Genus Mycteriacetus
 * Genus Schizodelphis (syn. Platyrhynchus, Cyrtodelphis, Schizodelphis pseudodelphis)
 * Genus Squaloziphius
 * Genus Vanbreenia
 * Genus Xiphiacetus
 * Genus Ziphiodelphis

Infraorder Physeterida
 * Superfamily Physeteroidea
 * Family Kogiidae
 * Subfamily Kogiinae
 * Genus †Aprixokogia
 * Subfamily †Scaphokogiinae
 * Genus Scaphokogia
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus †Praekogia
 * Family Physeteridae
 * Subfamily †Aulophyseterinae
 * Genus Aulophyseter
 * Subfamily †Hoplocetinae
 * Genus Diaphorocetus (syn. Hypocetus, Paracetus, Mesocetus),
 * Genus Hoplocetus
 * Genus Idiorophus (syn. Apenophyseter)
 * Genus Preaulophyseter
 * Genus Scaldicetus  (syn. Scaldicetus crispus, Eucetus, Physodon, Eudelphis, Palaeodelphis)
 * Subfamily Physeterinae
 * Genus †Idiophyseter
 * Genus †Orycterocetus (syn. Gargantuodon)
 * Genus Physeter (syn. Meganeuron, Catodon, Orthodon, Megistosaurus, Cetus, Physalus)
 * Species †Physeter antiquus
 * Species †Physeter vetus (syn. P. antiquus?)
 * Genus †Physeterula
 * Genus †Placoziphius
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus †Brygmophyseter
 * Genus †Ferecetotherium
 * Genus †Kogiopsis
 * Genus †Prophyseter
 * Family incertae sedis
 * Genus †Acrophyseter
 * Genus †Zygophyseter
 * Superfamily Ziphioidea
 * Family Ziphiidae
 * Subfamily Berardiinae
 * Genus †Archaeoziphius
 * Genus †Microberardius
 * Subfamily Hyperoodontinae
 * Genus †Africanacetus
 * Genus †Ihlengesi
 * Genus †Khoikhoicetus
 * Genus Mesoplodon
 * Species †Mesoplodon longirostris
 * Species †Mesoplodon tumidirostris
 * Subfamily Ziphiinae
 * Genus †Aporotus
 * Genus †Beneziphius
 * Genus †Caviziphius
 * Genus †Cetorhynchus
 * Genus †Choneziphius (syn. Proroziphius)
 * Genus †Izikoziphius
 * Genus †Messapicetus
 * Genus †Ninoziphius
 * Genus †Tusciziphius
 * Genus †Ziphirostrum (syn. Mioziphius)
 * Genus Ziphius (syn. Petrorhynchus, Aliama, Diodon, Hypodon, Ziphiorhynchus)
 * Species †Ziphius compressus
 * Subfamily incertae sedis
 * Genus †Anoplonassa
 * Genus †Belemnoziphius
 * Genus †Eboroziphius (syn. Ziphiopsis servatus)
 * Genus †Nenga
 * Genus †Pelycorhamphus
 * Genus †Pterocetus
 * Genus †Xhosacetus

Infraorder Platanistida (sny. Squaloceti)
 * Superfamily Platanistoidea (syn.Squalodontoidea)
 * Family †Allodelphinidae
 * Genus Allodelphis
 * Family †Dalpiazinidae
 * Genus Dalpiazina
 * Family Platanistidae (syn. Susuidae)
 * Genus Platanista
 * Species †Platanista croatica
 * Genus †Pomatodelphis
 * Genus †Prepomatodelphis
 * Genus †Zarhachis
 * Family †Prosqualodontidae
 * Genus Prosqualodon
 * Family †Squalodelphinidae (syn. Microcetus hectori)
 * Genus Medocinia
 * Genus Notocetus (syn. Argyrodelphis, Diochotichus)
 * Genus Phocageneus
 * Genus Squalodelphis
 * Family †Squalodontidae (syn. Mesoceti)
 * Genus Eosqualodon
 * Genus Phoberodon
 * Genus Squalodon (syn. Kelloggia, Rhizoprion, Crenidelphinus, Arionius, Macrophoca, Priscodelphinus validus, Phocodon, Smilocamptus)
 * Genus Tangaroasaurus
 * Family †Waipatiidae
 * Genus Sulakocetus
 * Genus Waipatia
 * Family incertae sedis
 * Genus †Sachalinocetus

Infraorder incertae sedis
 * Genus †Atropatenocetus
 * Genus †Austrosqualodon
 * Genus †Imerodelphis
 * Genus †Pelodelphis
 * Genus †Scaptodon
 * Genus †Saurocetus

Some of the genera have articles, most of those are stubs to "one liners", and with the exception of Ziphiidae (in part, I think) none are mentioned in relation to the related taxa or in the taxonomy section here at Odontoceti --Kevmin (talk) 03:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

When did odontoceti diverge from general cetacea?
If anyone knows, please add to article.

Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.231.2.183 (talk) 19:59, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Orca
The article says 'The toothed whales (systematic name Odontoceti) form a suborder of the cetaceans, including sperm whales, beaked whales, orca, dolphins, and others.' but Orca are dolphins, so why are they listed separately? Also, does the classification of 'toothed whale' mean that dolphins are whales?--90.216.59.168 (talk) 04:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Melon
They have a "melon" in their heads? Really? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.44.9.54 (talk) 13:49, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

The sentence "Toothed whales' brains have a poor connection between the two hemispheres and an organ called a melon on their heads is used as a lens to focus sound" appears to imply a link between the poor connection and the melon organ. 2.27.105.152 (talk) 20:12, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Why does "Phocodontia" redirect here?
Term not mentioned in article. Is it an obsolete synonym? 109.157.79.50 (talk) 00:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * According to Webster's dictionary: A group of extinct carnivorous whales. Their teeth had compressed and serrated crowns. It includes Squalodon and allied genera. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Taxonomy
The taxonomy section should include information on the group's classification history (Aristotle recoginzed tooth whales vs baleen whales) and its evolution. There should also be some pictures sprinkled throughout the species list so it doesn't look so dry. LittleJerry (talk) 22:57, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm against that picture idea; you have to remember that many people use mobile devices to view Wikipedia, and a bunch of images would just be stacked up, one on top of the other. This would hinder the usefulness to that audience. Dunkleosteus77   (push to talk)  00:10, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * , I added a small "research history" section a little while back. Is this good enough, or does it need further expansion?  User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 19:35, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, I think it could use some mention of Flower, 1869 who is credited with classifying Odontoceti. Also, didn't Aristotle recognize the difference between toothed and baleen whales? LittleJerry (talk) 01:40, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I only found Flower 1891 at this link User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 21:35, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay. I suppose you could add some information on their evolution. LittleJerry (talk) 22:12, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay. I added a small one, should it be expanded with more detail on Archaeoceti, or is it good? User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 00:43, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * No, just mention where they split from baleen whales. LittleJerry (talk) 02:47, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I did (where it says "This occured around 34 million years ago", second sentence)  User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 03:32, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay. In all honesty, I'm not a fan of the towering text listing all the species. It makes the article look dry and ugly. I think it would look better if replaced with text that lists the different families and a description of their general characteristics (plus mentioning the number of species). Maybe you could also have someone make a cladogram for you, linking the families. Thats just my opinion though. LittleJerry (talk) 21:53, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll get started on the cladogram (but there's a lot of species so it may a little while)  User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 22:45, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean every species, but the families. LittleJerry (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm posting what I have done so far. It's not complete, a couple of species are still missing (but I have no idea which) and there's an error saying there's more than one "2" parameter but I have no idea where that is . I basically copy/pasted the cladogram from the Pinniped article and filled in names with cetaceans (but I had to add a lot more parameters which is where things went wrong), and this is not yet accurate in terms of phylogeny. Each little subgroup is its own genus (for example, all 15 species of Mesoplodon are grouped together).   User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 17:07, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

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Is this term entirely made up???????
Once again, I have to question an article with no, or almost no, cited sources. I've caught other pages attempting to create terms out of whole cloth.

When I look online for terms of "toothed whale", the few sources I see have no references of their own, or ultimately SITE THIS PAGE.

That forms a kind of circular knowledge dependency, which is dangerous in encyclopedia land.Tgm1024 (talk) 15:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It’s times like these I like to turn to the Encyclopedia of Marine Mammals and would you look at that? There’s even an entire section called “Toothed whales: an overview.” We can also try this out at google scholar and it looks like 17,400 results. I appreciate your concern, but the term “toothed whale” is used everywhere in both casual and scientific publications.   User:Dunkleosteus77 &#124;push to talk 16:10, 20 December 2018 (UTC)


 * "Everywhere"? You're overstating, I will take a look again, and am sorry for my previous hyperbole.  BTW, 17000 hits for "toothed whale" are not useful because toothed can be used as an adjective, not a taxonomy, which is my original complaint.  Terms do seem to form in and out of here, and wikipedia as a result is becoming its own cited reference, albeit several layers deep.  Thank you for the reference, I'll look further.  Note: All I get from that listing is a page in the middle of a chapter without preamble.Tgm1024 (talk) 21:11, 31 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll yield, though we do need better sources. A **real** encyclopedia has an entry for it: https://www.britannica.com/animal/toothed-whale, and that's good enough for me.  I'll fold up my foaming mouth rant-box and carpet bag along with apologies.Tgm1024 (talk) 21:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Adding to "Life Cycle" section
I plan on adding to the life cycle section to talk about the presence of post-reproductive life history strategies in 4 species of odontocetes (Killer whales, short-finned pilot whales, beluga whales, and narwhals). You can find the article here https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-31047-8 and a supporting article here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169534798013263. My goal is to include the importance of older female assistance in raising calves--Hgthacker (talk) 19:43, 19 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hgthacker (talk • contribs) 19:38, 19 November 2019 (UTC)