Talk:Top Chef/Archive 1

March 22, 2006
This article is horrible it should be deleted


 * Please sign your comments. Actually, this article is a word-for-word copy of a Bravo press release, as is the one for Katie Lee Joel. Both should be rewritten. Lambertman 15:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I want to just start the whole page over again. It is too bad to really fix. Would anyone support this? --NRS11 18:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Since this show is patterned after Project Runway, you might use the article for that show as a template for redoing this article. Crunch 13:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

rebroadcast
Is there any information on when the first season will be re-shown in the US? Needtoknowstuff 08:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Season Two, Ep. 1 Controversy
I don't think this so-called Controversy regarding the taped interview is such a big deal and certainly not worth including in this summary. The blogger makes it seem as though the contestant certainly knew she was in the top group because she and two others voted these chefs among the best. However, it's possible she was thinking there were other criteria involved in determining why these four were being called together, so her statement that she didn't know why they were being called is legitimate. It's a contest and ultimately Colicchio and the other judges have the final say despite what the other chefs thought. I think it's a non-controversy. I also think adding links to imagined controversy on external sites gets in the way of this article. If no one has any objection, I'd like to remove this portion of the episode summary. Crunch 22:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually came onto the discussion page to post exactly what you have written above. To suggest this as controversy is quite ridiculous. I second your motion to remove this from the episode summary.71.194.154.128 12:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Age of contestants
I just reverted a change of Harold's age. According to the Bravotv.com website he was 28 when filming, so that is the encyclopedic age, not his current age.. EnsRedShirt 14:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

What happened to the 'Reviews' section?
Is there a reason all the links to Top Chef websites and blogs were deleted?


 * The article has tons of links, Fan sites are not necessary and really don't need to be in there.  I left the tv guide community and television without pity links as they are fairly established sites.  Over all Wikipedia is not a fan blog guide to a particular TV show.  EnsRedShirt 05:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Contestant external websites?
Q. Why were the Season 2 contestant external websites deleted/reverted? I used the same format/criteria that were used for inclusion of Season 1 contestant websites. 70.95.133.31 06:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Don't look at me... Didn't do that, but in responce to this querry I did split the list off to their respective seasons pages.. EnsRedShirt 08:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Otto's Place on the table.
Shouldn't it say that he quit also, because he bowed out as well.

Tinkleheimer 04:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what I thought.... 69.204.173.162 04:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed it, hopefully it looks good. Tinkleheimer 04:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The table
Can anyone think of a better way to do this, it just takes ALOT of work to look at this table and know what is going on. Brentoli 20:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Change Color
Is it possible that the color of Winning Both Quickfire and Elimination Challenges be changed to a different color. It is kind of dark and hard to see. Maybe to a Pink or Light Green. Tinkleheimer 04:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Mia's exit
The Season 2 table entry for the voluntary exit of Mia Gaines-Alt is unnecessarily vague and editorial. "Voluntarily quit (Likely to be eliminated anyway)" could refer to the author's opinion that a.) Mia was likely to be eliminated in this episode, or b.) Mia was likely to be eliminated in some future episode.

Choice b.) is obvious; Mia's elimination became more likely with each passing show. Choice a.) seems to fly in the face of Elia's poor performance as team leader, her decision to accept responsibility for the loss, and the judge's tendency to punish team leaders for poor team performances.

IMHO, "Voluntarily quit" is enough.

Roger 03:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't notice this before, but I agree with you on that one. Likely to be eliminated anyway is just speculation. Making Project Runway Season 3 as an example. Jeffrey Sebelia was in the bottom two of MANY MANY episodes, including the first episode and the last episode before the finales. But he went on to win Project Runway.

Tinkleheimer 03:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Table
I fixed the table for season 2. Please leave it alone for the time being. Any changes that need to be done, please discuss it here. Tinkleheimer 04:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Season 3
There is a casting director on myspace who helped cast Top Chef previously saying that they are currently casting for Season 3. I don't have a link for it, but he is on Josie's Top Friends on Myspace. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tinkleheimer (talk • contribs) 18:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC). Tinkleheimer 18:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup!?
This page needs a major overhaul, with the removal of the season info, which has already been moved to their pages. Plus a rewrite to refocus the article on the series as a whole, not the seasons. EnsRedShirt 05:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I think all 3 pages need overhauled. The Main, Season 1, and Season 2. I will see what I can do in the following days. Tinkleheimer 05:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I just started it by removing all info available on the season pages. We need season write ups in their place but I don't have the time tonight.. EnsRedShirt 06:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Urgh
Alright. An IP address keeps doing small edits that aren't exactly bad but they're not exactly good. The person moved the 'season two' from Padma's name down a space when it's fine on my screen and it should be next to the name (but then again, I have a 1200x800 pixel screen), keeps changing 'See Top Chef (Season #) for more information.' to 'Main article: Top Chef (Season #)' when it's not. The main article is this page, Top Chef. And... I'm getting sick of changing it back. Maybe I'm not doing the right edits. Plus, my comments on history are being ignored. Someone please give their input before I just say screw it.-Babylon pride 20:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Which IP is it? I will keep an eye out on it and help you. Tinkleheimer 01:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The person stopped but mostly 75.41.252.198. Well... starting with 75.41. Also, what happened to everything? Now this is almost a stub. And I don't like it, personally. Babylon pride 21:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ack, I didn't even notice this. I am thinking of reverting to how it was with the tables and such there. I need backup. Who is for/against it.Tinkleheimer 22:12, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Totally for it, since I just got so angry that I deleted the "Main Article: Season #" because it's just a repeat, as that's all that was there and it looked gaudy. I'm trying to save it some without going over my boundaries. And now season one and two have been changed from "Top Chef (Season #)" or whatever it used to be to "Top Chef, Season #" so the discussions there (if there were any) are on their own. I don't think that matters but the person did it without any consulting which ticks me off. I don't know. I just don't like people doing major things like that without asking other people's opinions who work on the article a lot, especially when most things are most of the time "Show Name (Season #)". I'm going to stop rambling now if that's fine with you. Babylon pride 01:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Look above I asked for input weeks ago about cleaning up the article and nothing happened. Any reverts back will be treated as vandalism as they don't belong here but on their respective season pages. EnsRedShirt 03:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * And that will start an editing war, which can get the page locked, and is childish. I don't really care but stating that is just so narrow-minded. Now you made it an almost-stub. Good job. Top Chef is a two season show. At least on this page, we can put characters, or a brief snippet of the seasons. We need something. It's so close to being a stub that it's amazing. (FYI? I wasn't editing this page "weeks ago" like I was now. I'm pretty sure I started about a week ago.) Babylon pride 21:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Also. If you get no input, maybe that means no one likes it. Just a little tip. Babylon pride 21:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated Rumors as Trivia?
Hi, I'm rather new to editing articles in Wikipedia but am I correct in removing this rumor every time it shows up on this article?

''Rumors persist that Sam and Frank met in a NY bar and conspired to get on Marcel's team and sabotage his meal for the final episode. The disappearing fish seems to lend some credence to this theory'' Wongy817 03:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * you are correct in removing it.. Please feel free to keep removing it as long as it pops up. EnsRedShirt 04:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Coming to Agreement
There are users that disagree with how this article should be. We need to come to an agreement.

- Minimal Version

- Expanded Version]

Please state which version you would prefer and give a reason. After someone decides that it has been enough time, or a consensus is reached, the page will be changed accordingly.

Expanded Version - The Minimal Version is basically a stub. Expanded gives much more information and is excellent for an article. Tinkleheimer 22:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC) Minimal Version with season summaries. - Look the Top Chef article is for the series as a whole all season info should be on the season pages. Whats the point of having all the season pages if it is just duplicated here?? The Project Runway article is the way this article should look. It is far to cluttered otherwise. EnsRedShirt 23:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC) Minimal Version with a paragraph summary of who lost, in what order, and why. That means everyone. (And sorry. I haven't been able to get on lately. Moving and all gets hectic.) I think expanded gets a bit repetitive, yes, but so I'm not a hypocrite it was a huge shock for it all to go poof in one day. (I know you had a discussion but I was not there for it.) I just think everyone should be listed there, in the summary, so it doesn't go on forever eliminating the use for the season's pages and the chart should definitely stay. Babylon pride 17:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Notability (fiction), Notability, and What Wikipedia is not are some relevant guidelines here. It is unlikely that the individual seasons of this show are independently notable, and a separate page that essentially contains blow-by-blow round summaries of each episode does not constitute an encyclopedia article. —Centrx→talk • 04:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah. They... really are. If you want to go on that bit, you gotta say that to Project Runway too and soon Top Design if they haven't already started a new page for season one. It's to keep it from being cluttered. Babylon pride 17:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As a casual reader of this particular page, I liked the expanded version better. In fact, I think Project Runway's page would be better served if it followed that model instead of the minimal model.  I'm not going to change it, since this version seems to be the more popular version. R. Kevin Doyle 23:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Article assessment
I have rated this article as stub class. It contains a good lead section but there is no further prose. There are no inline citations. See WikiProject Television/Television programs for a further guidance on expanding the article.--Opark 77 23:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The Rumors
Because the rumours in the Trivia section have mostly or all been removed; can someone please summarize them for me (whether or not these rumours have any credence doesn't matter to me)?

The only rumour I recall reading is the one that claims Sam and the other chef conspired to sabotage Marcel; but this is the only rumour I remember reading. Are there more? A summary would be appreciated.

Also, regarding the above rumour, where did it arise? Who came up with it? Is it from a website? What were the references or backings to the rumour? 207.12.38.25 23:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Protection or semi-protection
Of this article is completely without explanation on this page. Ridiculous. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Delay Drew (talk • contribs) 17:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I asked Husond and he took off the protection. WLGades 23:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

List of commonly used terms?
I usually have no idea what they are talking about when rattling off their dishes. I'd like to see links to commonly used terms used on the show. (Like gastriques, confit, croquetas, Romanesco sauce, hierloom tomatoes, panna cotta, etc). --24.249.108.133 01:45, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Unless it's part of the task description (eg to make amuse brouse) listing all of the contestants dishes and what they are would be too excessive for WP. And as there's so many and would be difficult to draw a line, I don't know if such a list is possible  --Masem 02:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Mopeds
I heard that all contestants received free mopeds but I can't find a citation for it. What I don't understand is why they give them mopeds if Toyota is a sponsor? Also, did the vehicle accident that gave Padma Lakshmi the scar on her arm involve a Toyota or a moped? --AStanhope 03:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * it was a car wreck when she was 14. not sure about the model.harlock_jds 12:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
I see the usual Wikipedia anti-trivia watchdogs have tagged this article. Could we possibly trim down what's essentially episode summary (Cirque du Soleil, Ken Lee in the 1st ep., Ken Lee in the reunion ep., and the hair-shaving incident) and move all that to the season-specific articles? Frankly I think most of that stuff could be broken up into the season-specific articles. Wl219 08:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say that I think the only two pieces of information in that trivia that are necessary to keep are the hair-shaving episode and the post-show event to Marcel. Generally, in other reality show pages I've worked on, "historic" trivial (like the first Elim winner going to win the whole thing, or the first to win both QF and Elim) which can be determined from looking at the tables is the first to be agreed to go by editors, and anything that really talks more about the "how" of a show, particularly when unsourced, usually can go as well.  It's the details that aren't apparent looking at a page or that happen outside the show but are connected to it that are important. --Masem 12:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

You don't have to purge the content of the Trivia section from Wikipedia entirely, just determine what's important and integrate it in the appropriate places into the various Top Chef articles. The point is that Trivia sections shouldn't be used as dumping grounds for useless information, redundant information or important information that people are too lazy to sort properly.--Crunch 14:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Season 3 winner edits
Well hopefully tonights ep will stop the speculation that Tre wins :) harlock_jds 03:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Top Chef 4
There are mentions in different spots on the Bravo site that Top Chef 4 has been announced and will be in Chicago. (Damn - I really thought they'd follow the numerous suggestions of New Orleans, but maybe they think it's not sufficiently recovered to support them?) I can't find them right now, but if others can, we should include that in the article. Lawikitejana 06:12, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Season 4 in Chicago is mentioned and cited in the opening paragraph of the article. Clconway 23:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks -- I was looking in the table of seasons, which is where, IIRC, Season 3 was added as soon as it was announced. Got it now. Lawikitejana 03:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Contestant links on main page that redirect to season pages
I do not want to get into an edit war, but I am afraid that is where this is headed with my changes already reverted. So I want to see if we can get some consensus here.

Currently Miguel, Stephen, and Dave from season 1, Frank, Mia, Betty, Michael, and Elia from season 2, and Hung, Dale, Casey, Howie, Chris, Sara Mair, and Brian are wikilinked but they are all redirects to their respective Top Chef season pages.

I feel this is redundant due to the season pages having their own direct links in the left hand column of the graph. Hopefully someone else will see this on comment on it. Thank you in advance, Aspects 04:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I absolutely agree. WP style discourages links to circular redirects and, as in the case of Dave Martin, links to disambiguation pages (esp. when the disambiguiated link is back to the current article!). Clconway 14:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Oops, I didn't see that the redirects were to season pages and, thus, not technically circular. Still, I think this is a clear case of overlinking: a link to the same information is presented on the very same line, with a more contextually appropriate anchor. Clconway 14:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well it has been a week and only Clconway and I have commented on this so I will change the links back to regular text and direct people to see the talk page. The only ones I changed to regular text were Dave from season 1, Elia from season 2, and Hung, Dale, Casey, and Brian from season 3.  It got worse after I made my changes by having links to those people changed back plus nine others added. Aspects 22:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers
Spoilers should NOT be a part of cast biographies. I passed by this page looking for a specific spelling of a name and found a rather unpleasant spoiler almost instantly just reading the very brief biography about Stephen. Eliminations should be in another section. -- Anonymous &mdash;''Sign your posts on talk pages. The preceding comment was added by'' 66.189.52.134.
 * Please see WP:SPOILER and Content disclaimer for current thinking and guidelines on "spoilers" in the Wikipedia:


 * In Wikipedia, however, it is generally expected that the subjects of our articles will be covered in detail. Therefore, Wikipedia carries no spoiler warnings except for the Content Disclaimer.
 * It is not acceptable to delete information from an article ... because you think it spoils the plot. --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 19:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Separate Page for All Star and Holiday Specials
I think we should have separate pages for these. The page can get cluttered with all of the information with these two shows. Please put what you think here. Trevor  "Tinkleheimer"   Haworth  05:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That seems reasonable. Clconway (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagree with making new separate pages. 1) The current article is not overlong, even with the two Specials sections.  2) Splitting off the Specials into separate independant articles will make them rapidly subject to deletion as not independantly particularly notable, and the resulting consensus debate would likely be to delete them outright, or to merge them back into the main article if we are "lucky".  3) If they are judged to constitute "clutter" in the main article, then the detailed Specials descriptions should probably be placed as an appendix or preamble to the nearest or previous "Season" articles, rather than creating new independant articles.  A short mention of the Specials, with a link to the details (wherever they might be moved), can still be made in this article.  Personally I do not care if there are separate articles for the Specials, but you can rest assured that the special corps of "deletionists" will see to it that they do not remain intact for very long.  --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 18:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Season 5 The article says season 5 will be in New York. The note "3" leads to "." I went to the website and I don't see any mention of where season 5 will be. I think this makes the claim that season 5 will be in NY unsourced. 72.76.254.179 (talk) 15:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)kyle


 * right now it can only be sourced to blogs but some high profile ones like the new york times grub street blog (http://nymag.com/daily/food/2008/06/top_chef_coming_to_new_york_at.html)harlock_jds (talk) 16:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * that was where the link was going i just had to fix some syntax issues.harlock_jds (talk) 17:07, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Controversies ???
Um I dont think this is needed. These arent even about the show except the one about Crooks. I think ithis section should be removed in my opinion! --Spiderman2351 (talk) 04:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)Spiderman2351
 * Totally agree. Removing it now. Clconway (talk) 02:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted the page to include the category. So far, I see that a couple of items might not belong here, but otherwise, the main reason you're giving is that you just don't like the category.  This is not an acceptable enough reason for deleting a whole category.  Is there any other information you can give as to why the whole category should be removed? --Ericdn (talk) 02:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There is only one relevant entry for the category (i.e., Cliff Crooks being eliminated for physically assaulting Marcel Vigneron). If you want to re-instate the category while deleting the irrelevant examples, I'm fine with that. I just think it looks silly to have a "Controversies" section with one lone controversy (which is adequately covered in the Season 2 article, BTW). Clconway (talk) 02:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Finally, I think we have a solution everyone can agree on! You appear to be the expert on this topic, so I'll let you make the decision the way you feel is best.  That said, if there is only one item that should remain, but it is covered in detail elsewhere, will you consider putting a reference tag in place of the entire category?  That way, people will at least know where to look.  That's just my advice.  Since we have amicably settled this, I will remove the warning I placed on your talk page. --Ericdn (talk) 02:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I may be a little late in this discussion, but it seems that there is a bit of a misconception here. Like any TV competition show, the actions (or misconduct in this case) of any judge/competitor results in bad publicity for the TV show and network, which this article is supposed to be all about. I'll admit that the blurbs about Blais and Vigneron's DUI are probably notable for the purposes of this article, but Crook's incident is very notable, and seeing as a judge being sued could/would possibly put his job into question, would that also be notable? I'm going to restore the section with those two blurbs. Bigvinu (talk) 21:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * IMO, a private civil lawsuit that is unrelated to the show is not relevant here. I have a hard time imagining Bravo would fire Tom Colicchio over such a matter, but that's not relevant here either. It's not our job to speculate over whether they might or might not fire him, but to report on whether they have or have not (and they haven't).
 * As for the Cliff Crooks incident, it's relevant but amply covered in the Season 2 article. I just don't see a need for a "Controversies" section that contains exactly one controversy. If we want to pad it out, the following seem more likely candidates:
 * * In Season 2, Episode 2, Otto Borsich voluntarily quit after taking a case of lychees from the store that had not been paid for.
 * * In Season 2, Episode 4, nobody was eliminated after unproved accusations of rule violations at Judges' Table. The incident resulted in the production hiring Lee Anne Wong to oversee and enforce competition rules.
 * * In Season 2, Episode 8, Mia Gaines-Alt voluntarily quit the competition.
 * * With respect to the Cliff Crooks incident, there are reasons (cited in Top Chef (season 2)) to believe the hazing incident was edited to produce a misleading impression of the sequence of events. This led to a lot of controversy about what might have motivated the editing choices, though ultimately the reasons are unclear.
 * * After Season 2 aired, Marcel Vigneron was attached in a nightclub by a person who was apparently motivated by animus toward him from watching the show. Some commentators felt that Bravo was somehow responsible, since they had painted him as the season's "villain."
 * * IIRC correctly, Tiffani Faison told at least two verifiable lies to the judges in the course of Season 1. (One was that she took credit for a dish in the finale that had been created by Dave Martin. Another had something to do with Miguel Morales, and led to him famously calling her "a snake.")
 * Clconway (talk) 00:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * all of these would be better covered in the individual season's articles or on the chef's individual wiki pages (if they are notable enough to have one). IF there is a section here it should be controversies about the series as a whole, not individual seasons or people (unless there is a cite that ties the 'bad behavior to mulpiple people in different seasons i havent seen a article tieing things together like that).harlock_jds (talk) 12:58, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Season 6
I'm removing Season 6 from the table until such time as production is officially announced. There is a casting call, from which we can infer a sixth season will be produced, but neither the location, nor the number of episodes, air dates, judges, or contestants have been announced. Clconway (talk) 20:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Top Chef: Masters
Can we please make a page, using pretty much the same format for the actual Top Chef pages? If anyone doesn't step it, I will be happy to make the page for you all!!!!!!!! 98.21.213.236 (talk) 13:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Top Chef Masters Edit
I made a small change to the opening paragraph, changing the reference to Top Chef Masters, from "under development" to "began airing in June 2009", since it is now being shown on Bravo. Not sure this is the best approach, but at least it is current. Perhaps, may be Summer 2009, or eventually the start month 2009 - the end month 2009. I also removed the Wiki block that indicated that the article referenced an "upcoming television show" since the info in the article is based on the actual broadcast version of the show. Boufa (talk) 20:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Records Table
Is this table really necessary? I mean...it's cool and all, but does anyone really care about these records besides fans of the show? This seems more like fancruft to me. - w ANINOKOZ  ♪♫♪ 01:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)