Talk:Tornado Cash

Updating the project link
Is it possible to update the project link if this link is referenced by Coinmarketcap? Vladlen Terezhe (talk) 04:03, 17 June 2023 (UTC)


 * No, Coinmarketcap is not a reliable source. MrOllie (talk) 19:32, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. Can you give an example of a reputable website for cryptocurrency? Vladlen Terezhe (talk) 12:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * nytimes.com. See WP:RS for details. Also note that due to past disruption this topic area has special rules. Restrictions about the use of blogs and other crypto-focused sites are diligently enforced - you will find that crypto sites generally cannot be used as sources. MrOllie (talk) 12:54, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * New York Times is not really talk about cryptocurrency. And sincerely, the whole article is almost sourced from crypto news websites and should be deleted that way.
 * Also, what about WP:ABOUTSELF where of course it s about Tornado Cash accounts that were active before the sanctions? 82.66.26.199 (talk) 19:01, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * In fact the New York Times has already written about this project - it is cited in the article. After the shutdown of the official sites, we have no reliable sources verifying that 'Tornado Cash accounts' are actually representatives of this project. Instead we have reliable stories discussing hackers successfully compromising what's left of the project's voting structure. We're not going to be able to use anything self published at this point. MrOllie (talk) 19:10, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The official on chain mirror wasn t shut down. Article is inconsistent. How something that supposed ceased to exist and was completely destroyed can still be destroyed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.66.26.199 (talk) 02:44, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Hack was later partly rolled back by the hacker.
https://www.proquest.com/docview/2816696326/862D4D39B08A4451PQ/5 https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/unexpected-proposal-allows-tornado-cash-to-reclaim-governance-control

Though, as a disclaimer, I was involved in mitigating the hack at the time it happened and got some hacker s details from an exchange. 82.66.26.199 (talk) 12:00, 12 September 2023 (UTC)


 * These aren't reliable sources. - MrOllie (talk) 13:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * And what about Bloomberg that says that Tornado cash was used for it’s own theft and this is still working despite the sanctions ? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-29/hacker-who-robbed-crypto-laundering-service-tornado-cash-uses-it-to-mask-loot#xj4y7vzkg
 * Not to mention another Bloomberg article were Tornado cash was used for parts of Euler’s hack later this year https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-13/defi-s-euler-finance-hit-by-197-million-hack-experts-say2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:E027:7636:494C:A61 (talk) 23:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Good find, I added some information from that source to the article. MrOllie (talk) 03:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What should be changed is the fact it wasn’t discountinued and still exists since it’s still being used . Using those 2 sources after the sanctions you should now recognize that it continues to work on it’s Ethereum based (instead of web based) mirror `tornadocash.eth` (registered on the blockchain before the sanction) which is listed as the official site by the first official twitter account.
 * Not to mention the first official blog https://tornado-cash.medium.com/tornado-cash-governance-proposal-a55c5c7d0703 that enacted an on chain censorship resistent system that continue to work (the list of votes on https://tornadocash.eth/governance goes back to 2020 without interruption and includes votes for replacing the paid original developpers)
 * I’m not asking to add such informations as is, but please edit the Infobox since the fact the service ceased to exists is proven wrong by credible tertiary sources. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:E027:7636:494C:A61 (talk) 21:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The article states that development has been discontinued, and that is true so far as the sourcing we have is concerned. Lots of software continues to work after development is interrupted. We still cannot use twitter or blogs as sourcing. MrOllie (talk) 21:18, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Except the software is a specific web service. About deployed versions, you should recognize the current de-facto Policy on Wikipedia for sofware releted articles is to self source.
 * I fail to see why even MediaWiki is allowed to self‑source the version deployed on Wikipedia and Tornado Cash wouldn’t be allowed to self‑source it’s deployed frontend. Especially since like Tornado cash there aren’t tertiary sources for proving https://lists.wikimedia.org/ is an official website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e0a:401:a7c0:e027:7636:494c:a61 (talk • contribs)
 * We obviously can't follow the 'de-facto' anything here, because software development is typically not interrupted by government blacklists and criminal cases. Instead we will rigorously follow content policies and use reliable sources, as required both by the situation and the special standards required by General sanctions/Blockchain and cryptocurrencies. - MrOllie (talk) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup. The 'de facto' policy on Wikipedia, as far as more or less anything cryptocurrency-related is concerned, is deep scepticism about the reliability of any sources that in any way promote the stuff. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:49, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There’s a difference between being promotional and implying users should go to see competitors whether because the website got hacked or sized by the government using an unsourced claim that is wrong. The edit that changed the state of development was brought by 1 of the users who tried to advertise his fork. You reverted only its last edit.
 * I’m not asking for the version number to be updated at the end, but just to leave the development state unwritten since there’s no source about it in both cases (though a 2 years old version should give an idea to users).
 * Development was never halted as 1 of the original developers (not the founder) continued to work it before being fired. Though, most of the work now includes code for avoiding censorship so that if development had truly halted it would had been impossible to use it like Bloomberg articles stated (the last version on GitHub relied on a centralized data provider and does no longer works).
 * I managed to find an archived page from the first website that gives a link to an official mirror. Can that mirror be listed on the old tornado.cash website be at least added as an external link ? Whatever you do, I won’t write an additional reply here. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:E027:7636:494C:A61 (talk) 22:44, 20 November 2023 (UTC)