Talk:Tornado outbreak of December 12–15, 2022

Let's actually finish most of this before i send it as a draft
Honestly, this time i don't wanna just leave the Impact section short. Poodle23 (talk) 12:54, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Regarding Notability
I'll wait and see how things pan out as the surveys come in, but the lack of EF3 tornadoes so far has me on the fence regarding article notability. The fatalities and the New Orleans metro tornado may make it just barely enough, despite the lack of EF3 or stronger tornadoes. I'm still undecided as to whether I want to keep this article or not, but I'm willing to give it more time. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 01:39, 15 December 2022 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * UPDATE: Farmerville, LA has been rated EF3 per DAT. This is article worthy, so lets get it done.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 01:47, 15 December 2022 (UTC)TornadoInformation12!


 * Honestly, today was impressive. Quite a bit of reports of damage and fatalities are coming around, and its certainly bad. This one will be a larger article. Mjeims (talk) 03:53, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Outbreak Sequence
Wouldn't this event be considered an outbreak sequence? Happened throughout multiple days. Or does it strictly have to be from separate systems. Widespread multi-day outbreak, it seems right to me. Wikiwillz (talk) 14:16, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * It has to be multiple systems to qualify as a sequence. In this case, it was one system that moved unusually slowly, resulting in a four-day outbreak.
 * TornadoInformation12 (talk) 01:08, 16 December 2022 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

Farmerville Enclave
Per Google, the EF3 damage actually occurred in an enclave of Farmerville. Something should be mentioned about it since by definition, the EF3 damage occurred in the town rather than north of the town. Maybe "northern portion of the town"? Elijahandskip (talk) 17:19, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Good catch! It might even be fine just to say "a northern enclave of the town", and wikilink it - people might learn something? Penitentes (talk) 18:19, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * , Just pinging you here to let you know that I am partially reverting one of your edits where you remove the enclave information from the EF3. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:21, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

No Confirmed fatalities from the New Orleans EF2
As far as I know, there is only one unreliable twitter source saying that this tornado caused a fatality, and nothing from the NWS or any official sources saying this tornado killed anyone. Please do not list this fatality until an official source confirms it. I strongly suspect this is a false report, possibly due to confusion from the nearby Killona, LA EF2, which did cause a fatality. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 00:53, 16 December 2022 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

Stop inaccurately designating tornadoes as "High-end"
Regardless of what people say in the corner of weather community you come from, you are new here, and apparently aren't aware that here on Wikipedia, high-end EF1 is a designation reserved for tornadoes with wind speeds estimated at 110 MPH, and that is how it has always been here. 100 to 105 MPH tornado wind speeds have never been considered as high-end EF1 in tornado articles on Wikipedia, ever. Doing this is ignoring precedent set by other editors and articles, and that causes problems and confusion. Please pay closer attention to how more experienced editors word things, as I am trying to be nice, but my patience is wearing thin as issues keep piling up, and my advice and corrections and are being ignored. Also in general, "high-end" is a designation that isn't meant to describe a wind speed estimate lower than 5 MPH below the upper bound of that EF category. 100 MPH for example, is a full 10 MPH below the upper bound for EF1, and does not qualify by any definition. I WILL continue to to correct this, along anything else that goes against precedent. I've been doing this for over a decade now, so by this point, I have a very clear idea of how things are worded or designated when it comes to tornado articles. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 13:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)TornadoInformation


 * I'm not super familiar with Wikiproject Weather or Wikiproject Tornadoes (if there is one) but this seems like a good candidate for the kind of information a wikiproject or working group should have on a Guidelines page (when to draft an outbreak article, when to move it to public, what to call low-end or high-end, what sort of sources to wait to find before adding a tornado as 'confirmed'). Ex: WikiProject Wildfire/Guidelines (it's fairly old and needs a refresh but I think it's a good idea). Penitentes (talk) 14:15, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Overuse of hyperlinking
Another issue I am repeatedly having to correct is redundant hyperlinking of town names in the table summaries that are already hyperlinked in the location description. Town names are only hyperlinked in the table summaries if the towns are not listed in the location part of the table, like Elysian Fields, TX in the De Berry EF2 description. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 13:42, 16 December 2022 (UTC)TornadoInformation12


 * I'd like you to stop complaining so the talk page isn't filled with sections like these. You can fix these problems, but please do not complain here. Poodle23 (talk) 14:48, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Hail storm
Is there any hail storm happened on the places where the tornado outbreak occured? If yes, can anyone measure the maximum size of hail storm? Sarge Da2 (talk) 04:12, 17 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Is there a reliable source for the hail storm? Sarrail  (talk) 04:19, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Improve on this
Made this (the section below). Editing of this is allowed to improve on this. Poodle23 (talk) 11:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)


 * And also, once done, copy this section, delete it, and paste it on the main article. Poodle23 (talk) 23:05, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Marrero–Arabi, Louisiana
A strong EF2 tornado impacted areas around New Orleans that were previously hit months prior by a high-end EF3 tornado.

Overuse of full writeups
Everyone, please remember that the full write-ups are only supposed created if the information cannot be adequately summarized in the table. Don't make things more complicated or lengthy than they need to be. This article doesn't need any full writeups, as everything is already adequately summarized. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 02:39, 11 April 2023 (UTC)TornadoInformation12


 * I'm going to say this flat out; none of these tornadoes needed a section. Period. I don't want to start edit wars, but I don't want to see any more sections for the outbreak. The table is enough. Chess  Eric  20:33, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree. If it didn't cause a lot of casualties or significant damage I don't think it deserves a section. It just adds to the workload for very little benefit, and cheapens the impact of having dedicated sections for tornadoes that did do significant harm. Penitentes (talk) 20:42, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Considering it couldn’t fit in a section without a massive removal of information, and it did cause 14 injuries, and it was famous, a section is fine. I’d oppose a section if we talked about it now but given how long it lasted like this it can stay. 72.80.245.12 (talk) 15:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

RSI?
I saw on the NOAA RSI website that there was a category 4 RSI storm in the upper Midwest from December 13-20. Could that be this storm? 72.80.245.39 (talk) 16:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Could you provide a source for that? Chess  Eric  18:44, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There is an interactive RSI map here which is the source for the cat. 4 RSI storm. Infinity (talk - contributions) 00:53, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/rsi/societal-impacts/northern-rockies-and-plains
 * 15.826 RSI if it is the same storm Noah Talk 03:23, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Are they the same storm though? 98.113.8.17 (talk) 19:32, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I dont know... That's why I said "if". Noah Talk 19:34, 19 April 2023 (UTC)