Talk:Torquay/Archive 1

help for another article
I need a reference for something, I can't find anything about this elsewhere so its possible its a misunderstanding, anyway... Theres a reference on a celtic language article about a carving ina a celtic tongue in a butchers in torquay. Now i've never heard of this before and If it is true it could be quite interesting... However it could be a)a misunderstanding b)modern or even just made up somewhere. Does anyone know where this is and any reliable references to it or pictures? cheers 131.111.8.99 21:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

NPOV?
Description of Adrian Sanders as "well loved" is POV - attitudes towards him are mixed.

Elected Mayor
Recent elections of Nick Bye as directly-elected Mayor needs to be included; I can put this and correct NPOV but not right now - no time! Mike

William III
William III (also known as William of Orange) landed at Brixham in Torbay on 5 November 1688 before marching to London, on his way to gaining control of the country in the "Glorious Revolution".

This really belongs in the article on Brixham (and/or that on Torbay), since it does not directly involve Torquay itself. -- Picapica 19:54, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Torquinian
Adjective used to describe natives or inhabitants of Torquay and Torbay --Anonymous


 * I've only heard the term Torquin used for that purpose. It also happens to be the name of the official paper of Torquay Boys' Grammar School --Safalra 15:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Its actually Torquinian mate not TorqunionStatoatTBC (talk) 12:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Delisted GA
Hi. I have removed this article from the Good article listing due to the following:
 * No references. One of the GA criteria is that a reference section must be provided.  Inline citations are preferred but not required.  When this issue has been addressed, please feel free to re-nominate.  Thanks! Air.dance 04:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Additionally, the history section needs to be split to History of Torquay and reduced to a 4-6 paragraph summary with no subheadings. Joe D (t) 18:39, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * This article could benefit from some general editing and pruning. It is becoming too long and disjointed.--Ianmacm 19:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I've shortened the history section to six paragraphs on the themes of early Torquay, the 19th century, WW1, WW2, the 1948 Olympics, and post 1948. Now I just need to track down sources... --Safalra 19:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Accessing Census data
Finding Census data for Torquay can be a little tricky as it is usually listed, with Paignton and Brixham, as Torbay. To find Torquay specific data:


 * 1) Go to http://www.nomisweb.co.uk/
 * 2) Click 'Wizard Query' (middle of page)
 * 3) Click '2001 census - census area statistics (2001)'
 * 4) Select 'Some' next to 'urban area subdivisions'
 * 5) Select 'South West' under 'urban area subdivisions'
 * 6) Check the box next to 'Torbay - Torquay'
 * 7) Click 'next'
 * 8) Select a table (unfortunately many are poorly named - for example, headline employment figures come under 'economic activity', rather than in any of three tables with 'employment' in the title)
 * 9) Click 'next'
 * 10) Check the boxes you want
 * 11) Click 'next'
 * 12) Select a format and download the data you want
 * 13) Click 'finish'

--Safalra 18:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Eponymous Royal Navy ships
I see no reason for the section Eponymous Royal Navy ships. Only one ship is actually called HMS Torquay (as opposed to HMS Torbay), and its only relation to Torquay is its name. I think it would be better replaced with a disambiguation link ('for the ship, see HMS Torquay') at the top of the article. I don't want to remove content without a second opinion, though. --Safalra 18:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Paignton - inextricably linked?
There is still a gap between Torquay and Paignton, running down through Scadson Plantation, Ten Acre Brake and Hollicombe, where there are no buildings. Now that the gasworks have gone, the two towns are visibly seperate. Totnesmartin 20:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Good point. I've changed the introduction to describe the two towns as 'adjoining' (as there's less than 50m between the two) rather than 'inextricably linked'. --Safalra 14:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Singer
"Isaac Merritt Singer and his family held a strong presence in the area, especially during the late 19th century, building Oldway Mansion in nearby Paignton (partially in the style of the Palace of Versailles)." Is this really needed in this article? It belongs in the Paignton article —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Birddrz (talk • contribs) 20:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

Deliniations of Torquay
I Noticed this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-of-torquay.png) in the article being used for the transport links of the town and thought it'd be a decent map for superimposing the various parts of Torquay onto it, i.e Wellswood, Ellacombe, Babbacombe, Upton, Hele, Shiphay, Cockington, Plainmoor, Saint Marychurch (and any others I may have missed), I'm a local and I don't even have a clue about their actual boundaries and have never found a map detailing them.

If anyone did and could create a map showing it, it'd make a very nice addition to the article with a bit of flavour text about the different parts of Torquay. Ajp100688 21:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Culture
Is FHM and Zoo really culture? RedRabbit1983 14:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

World War II History
I removed part of the Histry section concering World War II that stated "over a quarter" of the US 4th Infantry Division which departed Torquay "never returned." This implies they died. In reality, only 700 of the 32,000 that landed at Utah Beach were "casualties" which includes deaths and listed injuries. That's <3% casualties, not >25%. Without me even going into the argument that approxamitely 75% of "casualties" are usually the injured (although it depends on the time period and method of counting casualties) - placing the actual "never return"/deaths at <1%. Need I say more? 68.254.173.30 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Simply Torquay
I was looking to add SimplyTorquay.com to the external links section on the Torquay page, but an editor has removed the link.

SimplyTorquay.com has been going almost three years now and unlike most dirctory sites it provides free links to the websites of any business in Torquay, making it a good old comprehensive source when searching for restaurants, estate agents etc in the town. You also don't just get an address and phone number with website links only for the one or two companies that have paid.

I would invite another editor to repost the link if they too feel it would be a worth while addition and resource.

86.136.237.63 (talk) 19:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but your description makes it Spam, which has no place in an encyclopaedia. Wikipedia is not a telephone directory! Skinsmoke (talk) 03:09, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Possibility of Roman settlement
Is there a citation for this? I'm tempted to remove it, I can't find a reference to it at all. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd urge you to remove it immedeately.  Jolly  Ω   Janner  22:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK then. Looks a bit like wishful thinking, doesn't it? Totnesmartin (talk) 22:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Twin Towns
Surely as the twinning links are with Torbay (not Torquay) this belongs in that article?

Although both links (in particular that with Hellevoetsluis) seem to have lapsed in the last five or so years; does anyone know anything about this and would it be worth mentioning it in the article? The flying pasty (talk) 17:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Radio stations
The Torquay harbourside studio was used by DevonAir and Gemini FM between 1980 and 2008, but is not used by Heart, which produces all of its shows from studios in Exeter. Palm 105.5 is the only radio station with a studio in Torquay. Heart South Devon broadcasts to the South Hams, and Torbay is not part of its official coverage area.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 12:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Banksy mural
It would be nice to have a photo of this in the article, but comes from a Daily Mail press photo and is likely to be deleted as it fails WP:NFCC#1 (free alternative could be created). Hopefully someone can take a photo of the mural and upload it to Commons.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 07:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * done The mural is now covered by perspex. The extractor fan gives off a strong smell of chlorine, suggesting that it is linked to a swimming pool.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 14:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * An idiot vandalised the mural in May 2011.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The mural has now been boarded and painted over. Maybe the image should be removed from the article.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 12:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Infobox image
Nice photo, but the purists for up to date material will probably say that this 2006 photograph was taken before the fire at the Palm Court Hotel (bottom left, shown here as the Mojo Bar) in December 2010, and the fire at the Conway Court Hotel in December 2011 (top centre right). These buildings were destroyed by the fires and no longer exist.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:53, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The infobox image is a worry, as it is widely used to illustrate Torquay in Wikimedia projects, although it is no longer very accurate. The Palm Court and Conway Court hotels have been demolished after the fires, and the road layout has been changed. Eventually, the Palm Court Hotel should be redeveloped and look like this, but at the moment it looks like a bomb site. The article could have a new infobox image, I will try to take one on a sunny day.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 15:06, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Marine Spa arches
Re this edit. The four arches still exist and can be seen in this photo of the Beacon Cove area.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 18:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, those arches. Well hidden aren't they :) Shown here below Living Coasts in 2008 too. I was thinking of the concrete ones on Coral Island. Re-added to article. —S MALL  JIM   19:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The four stone arches are now the only recognisable part of the Marine Spa, although they have been filled in, as this photo shows.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 10:44, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

December 2013
Re this edit. It has been said before, but please don't add large chunks of text to the article without any attempt at sourcing it. As WP:V says : "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it." Statements like "There is also probably the largest church which is the parish church of St Marychurch which has a living quarters and a small graveyard situated at the top end of St Marychurch shops opposite the old Snooty Fox pub" are personal analysis and are unencyclopedic. As for the University of Torquay, this is a new one on me and definitely needs sourcing. The University of Exeter is generally regarded as the nearest university to Torquay.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 07:25, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

January 2014
The article has an ongoing issue with attempts to add uncited and poorly cited statements. For example, "1971 Simon Mitchell, international DJ (DJ Scorpio), djscorpio at discogs", was added today as a well known person from Torquay. Simon Mitchell as linked on Wikipedia is a New Zealand physician, while the external link which actually works is here. He is not notable enough for a mention in the article, as he lacks significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. I would ask whoever is doing this to read WP:V once again, because new material is useless without proper cites. Links should be tested and working, while book links should have the relevant ISBN and page number. All of this has been said before, so there is now an element of WP:LISTEN involved.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 18:13, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, Ian. If the editor doesn't start to listen to what s/he is being told, we will have to consider taking action to stop this continuing stream of unhelpful edits.
 * User:StatoatTBC, in the light of IanMacM's comments above can I suggest that you stop making direct edits to the article for the time being, because they will obviously continue to be reverted – which just wastes everyone's time. Instead will you explain on this talk page the changes that you want to make, and those interested in the topic will discuss your proposed changes with you and we will then all arrive at a consensus over what should be added or changed in the article. I have no doubt that you have something useful to say about Torquay, but you haven't apparently grasped the finer points of making your edits acceptable.
 * To start this off, could you reply to Ian's enquiry about Simon Mitchell, and let's also look at your first edit of today. Will you explain why you have changed "The following statistics are for the whole of Torbay, including Paignton and Brixham." to read "The following statistics are for the whole of Torquay including part ofPaignton." And where exactly does the data in those two following tables come from?
 * Waiting to hear from you, —S MALL  JIM   20:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Torquay Unknown but True Facts
( Copied from User Talk:Smalljim )

Hi I noticed that you thought Torbay was twinnned with Hamelin and Hellevoetsluis it is actually Torquay and also the Kingskerswell area of Torquay is twinned with Lonsee because there is no such town called Torbay it is a unitary authority and before that it was its own county between 1968-1974 with Torquay being the county town (obviously) as Torre itself is an area inside of Torquay the reason I put the stats are for the whole of Torquay is because parts of Torquay come under South Hams and Teignbridge district councils such as Compton (South Hams) [TQ3], Abbotskerswell, Coffinswell, Combeinteignhead, Ipplepen, Netherton, Stokeinteignhead, Stoneycombe and even part of Kingskerswell, etc. [all TQ12] comes under Teignbridge.

The reason I know these facts are because I work for Torbay Borough Council and have access to all Torbay Council's archives especially the history & information of Torbay and Devon itself and I work in Torquay Town Hall a.k.a. Torbay County Hall ca.1911. Also the reason I've not added other citations is because they are already put there so there is no need to put the same citation as before also Stantor Lane in Shiphay, Torquay is under TQ3.

And Re: DJ Scorpio is the world no.2 Hardcore-Techno DJ and is a real dj not like these fake one's on Radio like Dave Lee Travis, Tim Westwood, etc, who just play one record after another instead of actually mixing them in and has played at all the major dance organisations such as the world reknowned Helter Skelter, Dance Planet, Dreamscape, Obsession, Slammin' Vinyl, North Radical Technology, Bionic Westfest, etc, and also plays back to back with the world no.1 Hardcore-Techno DJ Producer a.k.a. Luke McMillan and in a recent survey of 3,000 people between 16-50 yrs old Scorpio came 3rd in most notable people born in Torquay behind 1st placed Agatha Christie (Crime Writer), and just less than 50 people behind 2nd placed Peter Cook (comedian), 4th was Lauren Pope (Page 3 model, not known for Dj'ing) and 5th Miranda Hart (Actress who hardly anyone has heard of), there is plenty of website articles on DJ Scorpio aswell as pictures and he has made various tracks under Semtex Records and Deathchant Records usually with Wargroover (D. Parkinson) as don't forget most dj's don't use their real names asking who Scorpio is, is like asking who Judge Jules is they use there handle names and not there real ones.

Yours respectfully StatoatTBC (Torbay Borough Council)StatoatTBC (talk) 12:15, 31 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Notability on Wikipedia is significant mentions in reliable secondary sources. A Google search on DJ Scorpio Torquay and DJ Scorpio Simon Mitchell did not bring up anything that would meet this standard of sourcing. Facebook profiles or Discogs are not enough to establish notability. As for the statistics, regardless of whether you work for Torbay Council, they would still need to be cited in a way which would allow other people to check them. This means specific online links, or books with ISBN and page number.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 04:41, 1 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks Ian. I'm sorry to have apparently dumped the above post from StatoatTBC from my talk page and then left you to respond to it: that wasn't my intention. I'll deal with his response now.
 * StatoatTBC, I don't know why you are so insistent at getting DJ Scorpio into the Torquay article; it almost sounds as if he's a pal of yours! If he's as notable as you say, why not write an article on him? - the best way to do that would be by using the Article wizard.
 * Regarding those demographics statistics, I asked if you could say where they came from. I know you didn't add them originally (that was back in 2005), but the important thing is that you changed their scope, and to do that you must have seen the original data to know that what is in the article is wrong. So again I ask: please provide an exact reference for those figures, so we can check whether your claim that they only refer to Torquay and part of Paignton is correct.
 * Remember that this is just one (fairly small) issue - but if you can't justify this change, can you see that it casts doubt upon all the other uncited changes that you're making? Please reply here, not on anyone's talk page, thanks —S MALL  JIM   11:49, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

February 2014
Some of the material was reverted because the cites were too vague ("Map of Devon" etc). Also, it is important to bear in mind that a Wikipedia article is not an almanac, guidebook or directory. Excessive listing of statistics, where things are and how they look on a map are beyond the scope of the article.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 09:33, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

StatoatTBC's edits
I've reverted the whole of the edit that User:StatoatTBC made earlier today. In the light of the above discussions and those on his talk page, and on mine and Ianmacm's (and his archive 9) it seems to me that his editing is becoming (unintentionally) disruptive.

StatoatTBC. After carefully considering your edit of today, I have reverted it. These are what I see as the main problems with the edit:
 * 1) You have amended distances and directions in the lead. The worst change you made is to state that Torquay is south-west of Exeter. Any map will show that this is not even vaguely correct.
 * 2) Your citations of "Map of Devon 2014" and "Map of Torquay inside Devon 2014" for details of Torquay's boundaries are inadequate. WP:V applies.
 * 3) You have repeated the citation of http://www.torbay.gov.uk/appendix-b-key_statistics_for_torbay_apr.pdf which is a dead link.
 * 4) On 3 Feb you added a section stating that "The Torquay Metropolitan zone's population is estimated at over 325,000 people..." referencing that statement to "Torquay Munincipal Borough Archives at Torbay Borough Council" – which is insufficient to allow anyone to check it (WP:V again). But today, without explanation, you've amended that figure to 350,000.
 * 5) You changed File:Map-of-torquay.png to File:Map-of-central torquay.png, which doesn't exist.
 * 6) You cited the non-existent web page http://www.stagecoachbus.com/devon/torbay/plymouth/timetables.php for your change that there are three bus routes.
 * 7) You have added extra figures to those demographics statistics mentioned above, still without stating where they came from, and without replying to several requests for information about those stats.
 * 8) You appear to be claiming that Rocombe Farm is owned by Beverage Brands (I'm sure that's not what you meant, but that's what it said!).

In the light of your previous edits and the advice you've been given over several months, this editing pattern is becoming disruptive. I don't believe that you're purposely trying to damage Wikipedia (that would be vandalism), but if a person's edits regularly take up a significant amount of other editors' time to check and clean up, then they are not beneficial even if they are done in good faith – please read the first two paragraphs of WP:Disruptive editing. If you can't stop editing the article directly, please at least make no more than one or two small changes per edit, and be prepared to discuss them on this page, if and when others query them. I should point out that we have a system of escalating warnings which can end in editors being blocked from editing entirely – let's not go down that route, eh? —S MALL JIM   15:39, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Incidentally, StatoatTBC, the section on the town's economy is out of date. It would be useful if someone could find some more recent reliable sources on that aspect - current unemployment rate, main employers etc. - and update the article. —S MALL JIM   16:49, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Note: An uncivil comment from StatoatTBC dated 17 Feb was removed from here. —S MALL  JIM   19:19, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014
I've reverted the edits that StatoatTBC made earlier today: he changed referenced population data without providing an alternative reference, and he repeated his unreferenced assertion that parts of Torquay "come under" South Hams and Teignbridge. Is there any basis in truth for the latter claim - are we missing an important point here? It would help if he could provide reliable sources to back up his claims: it seems surprising that the UK Census should have got it wrong. After some thought, I've issued him with a level 2 disruptive editing warning which I'll be happy to rescind if he can show good cause for so persistently changing this data against apparent consensus. —S MALL JIM   15:00, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * And I've reverted the changes he made a few minutes ago too. He's deleted the precise reference to the population figures again without explanation. Some of the other changes in that edit may be valid, but unless he can make them individually without trying to make some sort of point, this still amounts to disruptive editing. I've issued a level 3 warning. —S MALL  JIM   18:18, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I also think that his username should be challenged. It's pretty obvious that his posts have nothing to do with Torbay Borough Council (TBC), and I expect the council would be dismayed to have its name associated with apparent claims to "take over" parts of neighbouring council areas.  Places like Kingskerswell are within Teignbridge - they are not part of Torquay, or Torbay.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:04, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Hmm. You may be right about the username - I'll read up on the guidance. Out of interest, he had an earlier incarnation as User:Statistic man. The edits he made under that name in Feb '13 (here) may cast some light on his reasoning - the earlier ones mention "Torquay Borough": does that have any relevance today? —S MALL  JIM   19:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I see from one of his posts above that he claims to work at Torquay Town Hall. If his employers there discover what he writes here....   Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:38, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Nothing apparently wrong with the username, per WP:ISU. The timing of his contributions could indicate that he edits from work, in lunchbreaks, before going home, etc. —S MALL  JIM   19:57, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

April 2014
I've just reverted a bunch of edits made by User:Teknotic, who is obviously a sock of StatoatTBC, mainly reciting the same unreferenced claims, but showing an apparent interest in football now, too. This has gone far enough: I've issued one warning and the next infraction should result in an indefinite block for disruptive editing. Does anyone disagree? —S MALL JIM   12:26, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for picking those up - I'd missed them. No disagreement from me.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:39, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Assessment comment
Substituted at 09:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Geology
I note Devonian has a reference and photo of a quarry in Torquay which played a significant part in the understanding of modern geology. Sadly however it doesn't say what!! Could anyone expand the section & perhaps link to Torquay? I would hope there would be a suitable exhibition in the local museum which could be used as a reference. Regards JRPG (talk) 11:39, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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The Case of Eric
The story as initially told by Cleese was that the case was an attaché, not a suitcase, and it was placed carefully by Sinclair behind a stone hedge. When they inquired, he explained that the establishment had had 'staff problems'. It's highly unlikely a (former) member of staff could have waltzed into reception, left a suitcase there, and walked out. The source is assuredly in one of the many BBC documentaries on the series. It also beggars belief that the proprietor would have tossed the case, suspecting it contained an exploding device. Grapevines are not acceptable Wiki sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:cb18:2ba:e300:e9be:697b:cae8:b11 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The often-repeated story about the suitcase is in this BBC News article. It says "Mr Sinclair, who died in 1981, is said to have thrown Eric Idle's suitcase out of the window "in case it contained a bomb" and complained about Terry Gilliam's table manners." Whether it is true or not is another matter. As the Italians say, "se non è vero, è ben trovato."-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 04:35, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Notable people / in English culture
These two sections need reorganising - 'In English Culture' includes a list of notable people born in Torquay, some of whom are repeated in 'Notable People'. Mdrb55 (talk) 22:29, 8 August 2021 (UTC)