Talk:Tosca/Archive 1

Mistakes
One of Italy's major weekly magazines L'espresso started including a DVD of important Italian operas since the last week of August 2008. And it began with Tosca. But on its description booklet it cites that the act 1 was in Church of Santa Maria degli Angeli in Rome, not in Sant' Andrea della valle as it's mentioned here. Also there are many Italian sources on the internet addressing Santa Maria degli Angeli for the act 1 of the famous opera. The exact location needs to be confirmed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.5.58.247 (talk) 22:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I find a little mistake, in my opinion here (from the article): "Every accent and word of Scarpia is underscored by Puccini to depict a character with a depth of evil that finds comparison perhaps only in Verdi's Otello and Falstaff." Iago in Otello, I can understand, but Falstaff having evil? I cannot see the evil there. It's a comic opera. Can someone please clarify this.

You are absolutely right. I have corrected this mistake and another one about Paisiello as author of the "Cantata" (Act II). This is true in the drama by Sardou, not in Puccini: the Cantata is original music. --Al pereira 04:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Tosca is also an electronica group...

Is it noteworthy that this opera (I believe, posters for it everywhere) is featured in one of the levels of Hitman: Blood Money? Highlandlord 01:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say so, other articles have such things.

Have made some changes to the synopsis for greater clarity for those who don't know Tosca already. Also, there are a couple of odd usages, for example the terms intermezzo and human, which I don't get. Maybe this is unidiomatic translation of the Ricordi materials cited? Herbivore 01:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC) Following up on the above, have done some rewriting of the Analysis section...the last sentence is still a little cryptic, though. 64.12.116.139 00:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

According to the late Mija Novich, the anecdote about the mass suicide was not apocryphal, but took place in a performance where she sand the lead in Santiago, Chile in the mid-1960s directed by the noted director, Tito Capobianco. When asked about it, Capobianco refused to confirm it.

No mention of the definitive Solti, Kiri Te Kanawa, recording? I am surprised.
 * Errors and failures... About a concret sacral space in Rom. Do you think it#s a nescessity to discuss that? It might be real, if it's not in theatro san fenice, which burns down by other reasons. A fictional church, a space where a picture of mary is been created, not in a conventional way, means to me in opera. Otherwise you feed tourists!--Danaide (talk) 09:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

?
scene "Come è lunga l'attesa!"? I don't know what are the lines played in the video game, but there isn't a scene "Come è lunga l'attesa!": this is just a line. --Al Pereira(talk) 23:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes but I couldn't find a more precise name for this part of the play. It's only about 2 minutes long. I switched "scene" for "score", as I said there's no real name for this specific part. You don't have to take the entire trivia section out, either! Chenzo23 20:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Some of the translations for song's names were incorrect, or not in the score. I made corrections where needed.Samswiki 05:26, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

anecdotes
I think they all need to be individually sources, at least by current standards. DGG 16:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Support TRIVIA removal
Non of it benefits the article, so I'm glad it's gone. Viva-Verdi 14:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I just dont see why "video games" are relevent to the article - Jay 15:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I added it the first time because it is in the video game. Maybe the details of the level itself shouldn't be added, but their definitely should be a trivia section pointing out that it is seen in Hitman: Blood Money. I thought this article was all about Tosca, anyways. Chenzo23 04:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There exists a Tosca (disambiguation) article. If the previous editor feels so strongly that the "Hitman" thing belongs, I suggest that he/she add it to the disambig. section.


 * It has no relevance to this article whatsoever. Viva-Verdi 13:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Surely, it's all the wrong way round? Not many people who are interested in Tosca (the opera) will want to know about the video game. But people who are interested in the video game might like to have a pointer to the Tosca article. I couldn't see any such reference in the Hitman: Blood Money article. --GuillaumeTell 18:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * References in popular culture warrant inclusion in such an article. I can see what is going on here: opera buffs are outraged at "high art" such as "Tosca" being connected in any way with such "uncultured" entertainment as a violent video game. Elitist snobs. --68.149.181.145 20:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, whoever the hell you are 68.149 etc, this has nothing to do with "high art" but everything to do with relevance. It is clear from the title of the aricle, how it starts, and how it proceeds, etc. that is is about a BLOODY OPERA.


 * There exists a DISAMBIGUATION PAGE. It is linked at the top of the article. If someone is looking for other references to the word "Tosca", they should be able to find them THERE.  ANYTHING which relates to the name "Tosca" can go there as far as I am concerned. Viva-Verdi 23:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello 68.149.181.145, I am not surprised why you don’t bother to register or login as who you are. I figured, because it is much entertaining for you to talk rubbish behind the anonymous ID. You can call us “opera elitist snob” or whatever but at least we are unlike you who only dare to talk without “introducing” yourself. And, that just make you a pathetic loser. I do not see any link whatsoever about “Tosca” in Hitman: Blood Money but why Tosca article must have it? It is obvious that the creator of the video game that “copy” the scene from Puccini and not the other way round. In my humble opinion, the link or trivia must be in Hitman: Blood Money but not Tosca. - Jay 01:29, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

68.149... didn't edit it, I did, and I'm cool with it being gone, it was sloppy, and honestly the best way to go about it is to include a references in pop culture section which links to the explanation of the trivia in the video game's page. However, completely ignoring it's inclusion in modern media is kinda snobby. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Yesterday I wrote about this issue in Talk:Hitman: Blood Money, shortly after that somebody added “Tosca” ref in Hitman: Blood Money trivia. Hopefully it stays there. I disagree with video games reference in any opera articles because to me they don’t bring any “values” to depict the opera and show appreciation to its history. It has got nothing to do with the feeling of opera being a “high art” and “video games” are uncultured or anything. I love playing video games too! It is just that I feel it is unfair when I see Puccini’s work has a reference to a video game while in the video game itself says nothing about it - it is obvious that the creator of the game who are “using” Puccini’s idea. And, it’s just doesn’t feel right. This apply to other operas as well. - Jay 02:11, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well then, how do you feel about when people make movies off of an opera but put their own spin on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajharris78 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

"Bouncing Tosca" : removal of basically what is trivia
I support its removal and see that it has been replaced after previous removal (not by me). With 2-to-1 (or more) support, we can get rid of it. Viva-Verdi (talk) 02:20, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I support the removal. I do not see why some minor glitches should be added as part of “Tosca” history. Tosca is a historical classic art and not for “vendetta turned prank”. - Jay (talk) 02:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * When you say, "With 2-to-1 (or more) support, we can get rid of it", you are neglecting all other users and potential editors of the article. However, I do not intend to join your argument. I just point out that your "voting" comment is inappropriate. This page, with the right to make changes and decisions, does not belong to you three.Schpnhr (talk) 23:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

--- Ok, don't really know how to add comments to this, so I hope I'm doing it the right way. I'm the poster of the "prank" lines. I added them because it's an interesting part of the anecdote - as interesting and amusing as the "We Battle [Kathleen] Battle" shirts the member os the (don't remember which) orchestra wore on one occasion, because of the soprano's temperament. In the title you say it's trivia - isn't trivia an integral part of an anecdote? Regarding "historical classic art", I don't see the problem. Is the extra information problematic? Does it condone or reduce the opera, OR the incident, in any way? Do you really think these incidents are all that rare? They are an integral part of the opera. Cossotto has the most stories and rumours, but she is by no means the only one. There ARE pranks, and there ARE vendettas, and if one is at the bottom of the most beloved Tosca anecdote, or at least is rumoured to, then isn't it fair to include it, credited as a rumour if it is one? Hell, I remember how much I had to work before people let me state that it was Eva Turner, they kept referring to the wrong TV special to prove it wasn't. I hope to prolong this discussion. If, however, I see no replies to this, I shall re-add the snippet of text, and the YouTube information. If you like, I can even hunt down the snippet where Eva Turner admits being the Tosca in question (though not the vendetta-prank - would she admit it? The Musetta-without-her-drawers-on-episode by Ljuba Wellig is also alluded to in the video, but even though Merril tries to draw it out of her she avoids the subject - but it's historical fact). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.10.139.28 (talk) 00:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This stuff is not verified and really doesn't belong here. I think the whole 'anecdotes" section is dubious and should be removed. What small amount of the content that is valid should be integrated into the main article or perhaps into a "performance history" section. Markhh (talk) 20:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Analysis before Synopsis
Is there some reason for having the analysis section before the synopsis? Surely the synopsis should be first so that people will have an idea of the plotline before reading an analysis of it. Blankfrackis (talk) 21:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no reason, so I've moved it. GuillaumeTell 21:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

The "how" is discoverd in a professional manner and this evokes a question in me. What disguises this mixing of music styles really? The political bgrd isn't that clear in the libretto. Some fan of napoleon is prisonend, the other fan paints sacrified femals in an unconventional way and therefore and for privat lust the fans must dy! There are some real historical hints to France, so Scarpia may be a version of Fouche .The revolutionary connection between Italy and France belongs in heaven! Most of the time exterritoralism is a strategy to disguise actual political tensions. In 18 hundert Italy or in 19 hundert there are some possibilities thinkable..... If Carvadossi should be a figuration of Michelangelo, there would be other reasons to shot him down. This great painter, was in real life, nearly threehundert years before the opera Tosca starts, a well known choleric and he killed some. Therefore he had to fly from Rom to Venice and there: [Othello waits for him] and so on..... The timetable of the action is overlapping.--Danaide (talk) 09:48, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "Cade!" To me the written folio is o.k., additionally there is an analysis ; there are many pages where nothing like this exist.

Summary
It would be nice if a summary of what this opera is about was provided before dumping a four page synopsis on the reader. pfl (talk) 15:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Goya

 * Yesterday I had the chance to see and to listen to Mr. Barnes sight of Tosca in TV. Well made and sung excellently! The assasination of the desprate painter follows a painting of Goya: "Assasinatio di undici July!" and reminds of a real political event. Just for Spains to understand!--Danaide (talk) 10:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Discography
Why two discographies, one here and another on a separate page? Should the discography info on the main page be integrated into the Discography page and then deleted here? Markhh (talk) 20:42, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it should. Several of these discography pages were created on 27-28 February. See here for background. The creator of the discographies, doesn't seem to be interested in following this up, though. So any help would be appreciated. Voceditenore (talk) 06:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I merged the existing discography onto the new page, including DVD's. Hope it looks okay. Markhh (talk) 04:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)