Talk:Total Immersion

Comment
I have no commercial or other links with this subject, but my swimming times have improved dramatically since reading the book! I hope it helps others too.

TonyClarke 22:41, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What about language total immersion???
What about language total immersion??? There's a language learning program here in Brazil called "Total Immersion" (Imersão Total). I don't know if this method exists in other places, but I've seen it here in different schools. I don't even know if it's copyrighted, or who developed it. It's supposed to have the student totally immersed in the language, only speaking or listening in the supposed language. The teacher and even other employees of the school would only speak to students in that language, even beginner students. This is supposed to make the student to learn faster, and getting used to being surrounded by that idiom. The method is manily used for people who need to learn very quickly for a trip, or maybe going live somewhere else.
 * that's not related.

The wiki article for the language learning program is Language Immersion. However, I have definitely heard the method referred to as Total Immersion. I propose that a disambiguation link be set up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.114.134.203 (talk) 23:46, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

moved from article
I've moved this text from the article, because it no longer fits, but it may be possible to reuse some of it later. CarolGray 19:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

At this point, it may become desirable to work with the truly great swimmers and coaches at the Olympic level who can teach "warp drive" techniques. A rough guideline for this level involves triathletes down to around 60 minutes in an Ironman swim of 3,800 meters, or perhaps 23-24 minutes in the Olympic-distance swim of 1,500 meters. These are sub-standard times compared to even high-school competitive swimmers or masters swimmers over age 50, though they would allow an amateur to win their division in big triathlons.

Neutral point of view
I have tried very hard to make this article NPOV. Here on the talk page, I would like to say that learning this technique has changed my weekly swim from a chore that I ought to do for my health into a highlight I look forward to. It is satisfying to swim as sleekly as I possibly can, instead of the grind of counting lengths and watching the clock. CarolGray 12:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The first few sections of the article did not give it the NPOV that it should have. First, I changed where it was stated that swimming was a necessary skill, to beneficial to make it sound a little more neutral and to help with ethos. Also, it was stated that a person could not fully enjoy swimming without having the total immersion skills, which was incorrect. A person could enjoy a relaxing in a pool without using any total immersion techniques. I changed it to say that a person could reap the benefits of swimming more easily if using total immersion. I also added references to the article. That should help with the neutrality of the article, since there were only two previous sources from the same author. Kcahilla 12:57, 5 December 2007

Glenn Mills' Involvement
I would like to see a piece on the initial involvement of Glenn Mills concerning the creation of TI. I have heard that originally both Terry and Glenn created TI together, and when Glenn began to disagree with the direction Terry's coaching methods were headed, he left.

However, I do not feel that I could write this section because I have been coached by both coaches, and whereas Glenn's style of coaching improved my strokes and times, Terry's did not, and in fact had negative effects on my races. Because of this, I would like to refrain from editing the article, because I believe my bias would affect my ability to add this section in a neutral manner. --NPswimdude500 02:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Glenn Mills was not involved in the creation of TI, nor did he influence the development of TI methodology, particularly as we teach it now. However, during his brief involvement with TI his computer and video production skills allowed us to accelerate our rate of new product deverlopment.

I made Glenn's acquaintance via a swimming message board in 1996, after TI had been in business for seven years and was very well established in both swimming and triathlon circles. We had established a web site a year or two earlier and when I learned that Glenn had web and production skills I offered him a job as our web manager and video producer -- along with teaching at workshops. He remained with TI for three years. He eventually chafed at subordinate status in the company, preferring to be the lead person in his own company. Posted by Terry Laughlin, 12 June 2007

Wording
The beginning of this article does not read like an encylopedic article, but rather as promotion for the content. It would be nice if someone with knowledge of the subject could rectify that. 194.144.27.252 09:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Surely this is just a glorified advert?
This whole article reads like an advert for TI swimming... screw impartiality! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.224.217 (talk) 15:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree with the previous post. Does TI really warrant its own article? There are many coaching methods; why present this one alone? Move to delete. Madgenberyl (talk) 22:24, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

mess
this article, is quite frankly a mess, i have added what i believe to be the correct tags--UltraMagnus (talk) 22:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Improvement
This article was pretty much a trainwreck compared to Wikipedia's standards. I've removed a lot of the article that simply didn't feel like it fit here; marketing materials aren't useful. I've added a few of the pointers from Terry's breaststroke videos. I'm removing the "This article is written like an advertisement." tag at the top. I'm removing the "refers to self-published sources", as it looks like most of those were pulled, I'm editing the whole thing, and I certainly didn't publish anything on the topic. This could definitely use further touchups, but it's getting there. If anyone has any first-hand knowledge of their fly and backstroke coaching, that couldn't hurt to add in. Dean (talk) 21:12, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Front Quadrant Swimming
The paragraph describing front quadrant swimming reads: "an imaginary quadrant along the swimmer's body with the head and shoulders at the center of the 4 quadrants." Problem: based upon the above words alone, I can't conjure a mental image of 'front quadrant swimming'. I say this despite the fact that I (1) am a swimmer, (2) have done TI and have made a living off of visualization. Solution: use an image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.11.197 (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

"Natural"
Recommend removing every instance of "natural" and replacing with more descriptive term(s). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.11.197 (talk) 18:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Touchups
I spent a few hours reorganizign some of this material to match some current teachings and added many external references from triathlon & swim coaches who have inteviewed the founder, as well as an external trade show that features Total Immersion swimming demos annually. I will probably edit this further. I am a swim coach and a total Immersion certified coach. I tried to keep the edits neutral but more informative than what was previously here.

I would advise that future editors add a "Total Immersion Swimmers" section to include TI swimmers & coaches at all levels with notable accomplishments including USA Swimming, NCAA, USMS and USA Triathlon wins & awards to add credibility and recognition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.235.28.189 (talk) 03:25, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Gravity and bouyancy
"Making use of gravity as a propelling force" certainly leads to "total immersion", but I doubt it helps as a swimming technique. Diving, maybe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.193.211.121 (talk) 23:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Both gravity and bouyant forces are vertically directed forces—gravity is downwards, buoyancy upwards—no way can they contribute to horizontal propulsion. Dger (talk) 20:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Yup. Contrary to elementary physics. I'll delete it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:25, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I translated this into German and tried to make sense of it. Obviously the author means that weight shifts help to create momentum. Shifting the point of gravity during swimming has to do with gravity (and bouyancy, for that matter) and can support propulsive movements of arms and legs. Gravity and bouyancy forces are vertically directed for sure, but if you "screw" yourself through the water, you can make use of it for propulsion. Best--Olag (talk) 08:09, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * A post on the founder's website] refers to precession, however, I'm not convinced this entirely applies to the self-generated movement of people. Location (talk) 18:27, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I think there is no hint in Laughlin's book that he means that. Actually in the chapter about propulsion he cites the formula Force = Mass x Acceleration to suggest that whole body movements (or: gravity shifts) from the core of the body may result in stronger and more efficient propulsion than "unconnected" and hectic movements of arms and legs.--Olag (talk) 21:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Is this topic notable by Wikipedia standards?
Is this topic actually notable by Wikipedia standards? The only claims in the article which might suggest that it is are in the 'Notable Total Immersion swimmers' section - but that merely asserts that the swimmers are notable - and even it was verifiable from reliable sources that (a) the swimmers were 'notable', and (b) they used the 'total immersion' technique, it would be irrelevant - notability cannot be proven by endorsement. What this article needs, per WP:GNG is verifiable evidence of "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". It also needs extensive rewriting, not least to remove the promotional hype, and the violations of WP:NOTHOWTO. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:40, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I completely agree. As I mentioned to Dger earlier, I am having difficulty finding "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" per WP:GNG. There are a few references in the article, but only #10 touches on the actual technique and it's not a good one in that it is a blog post and primary source material. Location (talk) 19:43, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 09:06, 30 April 2016 (UTC)