Talk:Tour de France/Archive 3

Logo
The logo is rather ugly on this site. It's a .gif, and it looks bad when it get's stuffed into such a little box!--87.60.1.203 15:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

women?
The article mentions a Tour de France for women- is it open to women otherwise? (in theory, at least, even if women don't qualify?) -- Dandelions 00:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What do you mean ? Women road cycling is a different "sport", i.e., it has its own seperate circuit, different organisations, teams, races, and also really less publicity. The Tour de France Féminin is therefore a entirely different race, open for other athletes and teams from a parallel circuit: those from women cycling... Or what's your question exactly ? --LimoWreck 21:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe the question he/she was trying to ask is if the TDF is like, say, the United States Golf Open, where female golfers are not excluded on the basis of gender. [In other words, is it an open competition, or a men's open competition?]


 * I was about to ask the same thing. The article fails to mention that this is a male-only competition and women are not allowed to participate (it is so, right?). This sexism issue in sports is so strange. (I am well aware that this might have a basis in that male and female bodies have differing physical characteristics, but for me this does not justify having the competitions/organizations/races separate.) Atilim Gunes Baydin 14:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to replace calls
Notice: There is currently a proposal to change calls to 🇺🇸 at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Flag_Template. Please consider posting there to keep the discussion in one place. (SEWilco 04:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC))

Discussion at MoS on flag icons
Please contribute to the discussion on flag icons at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. (SEWilco 14:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC))

TT as last stage?
What's this? "In 1989 the Tour organizers returned to holding a time trial as the final stage."I don't seem to remember a time trial as the last stage. Can anyone confirm? --Eamonnca1 23:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The Tour de France and other cycling events
The Tour de France is definitely the most notable cycling race. I often read or heard of it time to time. I know that there are prestigious cycling events such as the Giro d'Italia of Italy and the Vuelta a España of Spain. But why these events aren't as well-covered by international media as the Tour de France? -61.9.126.41-
 * Because cycling as a whole isn't a very well covered sport. The media know it exists, but the only race that non-cycling people have heard of is the Tour de France - maybe something to do with it being the oldest?  I suspect it also has the most prize money.  I've got a feeling that it is the only one of the Grand Tours that goes outside of its national borders; which means that the Dutch, the Belgians, the Germans etc love it when it traces its way through their country.  It's even gone to Ireland!  The Tour sells itself quite well to the rest of the world, and as more and more countries find one of their countrymen in the yellow jersey for even just a day, they start to take notice of the race.  Of course, the TV channels outside of the cycling-heavy countries know that they won't get great ratings for cycling, so they won't broadcast the whole ProTour calendar, but they might deign to show the nightly half-hour highlights show that ITV do for the three weeks of the Tour.
 * Also: the most prestigious cycling race? Probably the World Championships.  And they really aren't that well covered either. kju 12:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Giro started in Belgium in 2006; Vuelta regularly goes through Portugal and into France. ASO sell the Tour well (which gives them a high opinion of their own worth). The most prestigious race? Pick any from the Monuments for me and - for me - Paris-Roubaix is the best. It's all personal opinion... Mk3severo 17:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Grading of climbs
Does anyone have a sense of how to predict the grade of a climb from its length and steepness? For example, Monte Bello Road in Cupertino climbs about 2000' in I think about 5 miles -- say, roughly an 8 percent grade, or a little less. What would it be in the Tour? --Trovatore 05:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, looking at Google Earth, it looks like it may be about 5.3 miles, so maybe closer to a 7% grade. The first two miles are the steepest long stretch, gaining about 1000'; then it eases off for a while, and gets steep again near the top. --Trovatore 06:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's one description of the climb up Montebello Road. And here's another, with more detail (slight disagreement on the elevation gain).
 * I realize this doesn't answer your original question. :-)
 * —wwoods 19:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting, thanks. I've been taking my measurements with a GPS, and the altitude readings fluctuate enough that it's hard to figure out accurate grade estimates for stretches shorter than a mile, so I hadn't realized that it reached 15% at the beginning and in that stretch about a third of a mile past Peacock Ct. But I think Lucas's altimeter starts to read consistently a little low once you get past 1000'. The gate is at about 2570 feet, not 2490; that's the figure I get repeatably, and it's also what you see on Google Earth.
 * Anyway, for anyone with a sense of how grades are assigned in the Tour, does looking at the links help figure out what grade it would be? --Trovatore 19:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that it would be one of the easier category 1 climbs. It is short for a grade 1, most of them are at least 10 km, but it's steeper than average. In this year's tour, it's perhaps most comparable to the Mente and the Marie-Blanque, both 1s. (see http://www.climbbybike.com/tour_de_france_2007.asp). But the grade is also determined by the type of pavement, and the position in the race course (mountains at the end of a stage are graded a bit higher). Eugène van der Pijll 21:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! So I can make it up a cat 1; that's very cool. Of course at a fraction of the speed a real cyclist could make, but one thing at a time; I'll work on that in my next life. --Trovatore 22:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Consistency
The Tour de France page list that there have been 11 American wins. When I counted the wins on the Tour de France winners list, there are 10. This is due to the list stating that the Gailician Óscar Pereiro won in 2006, rather than the American Floyd Landis, without any notice that Landis was the "unofficial" winner before the doping results. This discrepancy needs to be fixed. Has the appeal of the doping results come to a final end yet? Paploo 17:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The result of that should come... today! That will settle things one way or another for the time being at least. I would revert the list of tour winners, but I think I will leave it until we get a decision through... Good spot thought, and thanks for taking the time to look at this. SeveroTC 18:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

media coverage?
A section on coverage options (internet, television, etc.) would be helpful for those trying to keep up with tour results... would it be appropriate for a wikipedia article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Not on the main TdF page, perhaps on the 2007 page, though I doubt it is encyclopaedic... SeveroTC 19:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Why not go to the Tour's own page, www.letour.fr? That's definitive, and where I get my information for Current Sports Events. -- Arwel (talk) 19:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

London?
I herd it started in London this year, I came here to find out why but I see no mention.

External links section
I've just been through and cleared away some foreign language and blog sites from the external links section. The links section is still a little excessive, with links to a variety of sites that are providing the same information, the only difference being layout and opinion. External links gives sound guidance on use of external links. I suspect that a number of the media sites (cycling publications and TV) could be cut down as they are possibly all getting the same information from the official site. SilkTork 18:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Deaths
Wasn't the fatal crash of Wouters and Darrigade on the finishing stage at the Parc de Princes velodrome? There might be some confusion between stage number six and Darrigade chasing his sixth stage win. Asbjørn L. Johansen 13:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Remove Physical characteristics section
I'm proposing removal of the Physical characteristics list. It adds no value to the article. It's trivia, and not very interesting trivia, at that. Jim Dunning | talk  14:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Jersey winners
I have created Tour de France Green Jersey and Tour de France Yellow Jersey The format was copied from The Open champions, which has a nice collapsability feature when a number of such templates appear (see the bottom of Tiger Woods). I think all the Jersey templates including Polka dot jersey and Maillot blanc should be at the bottom of Tour de France in collapsed form. However, the other templates are not in proper form to count towards a total that would induce the autocollapse feature. I added the new tables and they were removed as too much clutter I suppose. I was hoping to get some consensus on this matter. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 13:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I really don't like them. Succession boxes show the winners before and after (and highlight major achievements), and categories and lists show all winners of a competition. I feel the winner boxes add nothing to the articles they are used in and are a complete eyesore. I was also a little bit surprised you added them on so many articles on which you haven't edited before, without looking to build consensus first! My vote is to delete them all, without haste. SeveroTC 19:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * First of all, I felt I was completing a half done job since Polka dot jersey and Maillot blanc had already been created. Second, as is seen at the abovementioned Tiger Woods (look at the templates for each of the 4 major tournaments) (see also Roger Federer, Michael Phelps), the templates in collapsed form can be an efficient way to link all the individual sport athletes who share a particular accomplishment from their own bio articles. It seems to be the wikipedia convention for individual sports. One might argue that cycling is a team sport and that Michael Phelps is a team sport athlete.  However, I believe both arguments are weak because the scores are accumulated as individuals for the most important cycling awards.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Eddy Merckx and Bernard Hinault would look good with this collapsed look. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 04:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have corrected the jersey templates and readded them to the article. I may do a combativity template at some point.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The difference with the tennis ones is that in tennis they record only the winners of the four most important competitions. These are trying to record the winner in four categories in just once race. In road bicycle racing there are 9 important races in a year (Giro d'Italia, Tour de France, Vuelta a España, Milan-Sanremo, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix, Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Giro di Lombardia and the UCI Road World Championships). In many biographical articles, winning one of these is recorded n a succession box. A category is sometimes added as well. The tennis ones don't have succession boxes - the winners templates are used instead. The swimming ones cover the array of strokes and lengths which doesn't really apply. I don't think any are really relevant and there is no convention to have winners templates at the bottom of biographical articles as well. The collapsible versions do look better than non-collapsible versions, but with succession boxes as well I think it's overkill, and I don't think they should cover all competitions. SeveroTC 20:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

timeline
I saw that there is no timeline of winners in the article anymore, last year there was. I tracked back when it was changed, and saw that it has been missing since some vandalism. I also checked this talk page and couldn't find anything on removing the timeline, so I'm putting it back now. . --Pie.er 08:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

update 2006 winner in graphic
The list of winners on the right should have Landis's name replaced by Óscar Pereiro Sio. Sadly, I'm not really sure how to edit that. Derekt75 00:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Here you have it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Timeline_Tour_de_France_Winners. 85.50.110.135 01:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)