Talk:Tournament (medieval)

Redirect
Why does the search enquiry "Tournament (medieval)" works, but not "Medieval Tournament"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalozma (talk • contribs)


 * I've added a redirect. -- Stbalbach 14:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Accession Day Tilts
We need something on the extraordinary pageantry of the Elizabethan Accession Day Tilts. I am thinking a separate article but linked here. Anyone else interested in playing with this? - PKM 19:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup. Starting work on it now, and over the next few days. The Tilts you refer to are jousts and ought to be under the Jousting article (which badly needs a rewrite). The medieval tournament was a melee event and not a joust so the two should be kept separate. Happy writing. David Skipper 22:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent! will keep an eye out. - PKM 18:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

When is a Tournament not a Tournament
The recent modifications to this page have reintroduced a misconception. The tournament was a melee event which had a definite end in the late 14thC. It is common in some modern studies - but incorrect - to refer to later medieval jousting events as 'tournaments' and all the modern references (Crouch, Barker, Parisse) cited here say this. Medieval sources too make this distinction. The same objection applies to many of the primary sources introduced here. Hem - for instance - was an Arthurian-style joust, not a tournament. I have therefore reverted this page until some discussion establishes precisely what this article should be about.David Skipper 21:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I find this strange. The article used to say (and still does):
 * Tournaments centred around the mêlée, a general fight where the knights were divided into two sides and came together in a charge (MFr 'estor'). Jousting, a single combat of two knights riding at each other, was a component of the tournament, but was never its main feature.
 * are you contesting this? If so, why did you not touch this portion in your revert? And even if you insist on "tournament=melee", how can you claim they ended in the 14th century? Melees may have become less popular than the joust in the 15th century, but they were certainly still taking place. dab (𒁳) 00:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. The portion you cite makes my point. Jousts originated in the melee tournament and grew out of it, but there came a time when the melee went out of fashion and jousting became the main form of hastilude. That is how I understand that section. My point is that if you want to talk about hastiludes after the 14thC then the article should be under the separate title of Jousting. If you know of melee tournaments after the 14thC then amend the proper section, but why reintroduce a confusion that modern works are trying to eliminate? Not going to get in a reversion war over this, just reconsider your amendments with this in mind, and cite your authorities for your contention that, for instance, Hem is a tournament not a joust. David Skipper 07:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Early precursors
While not a tournament in the true sense of the word, an early event occured in Worms 842, which possibly shows some of the tournament origins. From Ann Hyland, The Medieval Warhorse from Byzantium to the Crusades, UK: Grange Books, 1994, p 61: ''The precursor to the later tournaments was held at Worms in February 842 on the occasion of the Frankish king and the emperor meeting to confirm a treaty. The games took the form of simulated charges, retreats and counter-charges, lances swinging in so disciplined a way that no one got hurt.'' Might perhaps be a useful reference for discussion on  origins.Gwinva 16:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The various authors who deal with tournaments note this and describe it as a 'hastilude' (spear exercise). The consensus seems to be it was one of a whole range of cavalry exercises out of which the idea of the tournament grew, but since cavalrymen at the time did not couch lances, it was not possible to have the charge that was the defining feature of the tournament (see Barber & Barker, p. 13). David Skipper 07:30, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Definition citing
Barron, O. (1911). Tournament. In H. Chisholm (Ed.), The Encyclopedia Britannica (11th ed., Vol. 27, p. 105). New York: Encyclopedia Britannica Company. that is the proper reference to what you excerpted. thanks C. VanSlambrouck (IL MFFG)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.44.74.48 (talk) 03:07, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

External link
There is a module called The Medieval Tournament being offered as part of the MA in Medieval Studies at the University of Leeds. It is most likely the first university course to deal exclusively with the history of the tournament. Would an external link to the webpage be a useful link on this page?http://www.leeds.ac.uk/ims/news/news_tournament_module.html Leedsmedievalist (talk) 16:07, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

The second paragraph of the summary needs work. Discuss.
The second paragraph of the summary has quite a few issues that need to be discussed:

1.) It doesn't cite any sources.

2.) It's written awkwardly.

3.) It uses un-encyclopedic descriptions.

Take the passage, "Finally, it was celebrated for pure entertainment and one of these parties arranged in Valladolid by the Constable Don Álvaro de Luna, to which Don Juan II of Castilla came out to joust as an adventurer, the chronicle of that valid in Cap. LII." That's sure to confuse readers. Then take, "The heralds and kings of arms were in charge of publicizing the tournament, and the herald passed from castle to castle, taking letters and posters to the most renowned champions and invited all the brave who were on the way." It sounds more like a description from a medieval fantasy novel than the summary of a subject from an encyclopedia. Any thoughts on how to improve this? P.S. What exactly is a "king of arms"? Professor Penguino (talk) 01:49, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * King of Arms. DeCausa (talk) 09:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Professor Penguino (talk) 21:38, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Move
Shall I move this to a page called Medieval Tournaments ? Justyouraveragelechuga talk contribs 03:39, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No - do a proper WP:RM, but I think I would oppose. People are less likely to search for this. But you were absolutely right to ask first. Johnbod (talk) 15:02, 7 January 2023 (UTC)