Talk:Toynbee tiles

"Cannot be construed to be offensive"
I imagine the ones about "hellion Jews" could be construed to be potentially offensive, certainly enough to have tiles deliberately removed. Perhaps the point should be qualified more? Acb 00:38, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Right, but that was a very unusual example. The vast majority of them are of the "TOyNBEE IDEAS IN KUbricK's 2001 RESURRECT DEAD ON PLANET JUPiTER" variety, which causes little concern. Indeed, Philadelphians who work downtown, (including myself), are so used to seeing these things, (vaguely, since they are now so worn away), that one often has to point out to them that they are a "mystery" before they give them a second thought. Before I found this article on Wikipedia, I had never even stopped to really look at them before, (of course, stopping in the middle of Philly traffic is a bit dangerous in the first place). Func( t, c ) 04:36, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Morasco
I'm not sure how much traffic the James Morasco page gets, so I'll ask it here too: Is there any reason that article shouldn't just be merged here?--Pharos 05:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes. We don't know whether James Morasco is the tilist. Diego001 20:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The "James Morasco" and "Toynbee tiles" pages should not be merged. Morasco cannot be difinitively identified as the creator of the tiles. Also, new tiles have been created since Morasco's death in 2003. While it is possible that the tiles could have been created by Morasco, they have obviously also been made by others. Because it cannot be proved that Morasco is the tilist (or even 1 tilist), these articles cannot be factually or logically merged.
 * I wrote the original James Morasco article, and I agree. — Walloon 03:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Is Morasco notable for anything other than potentially creating the Toynbee tiles? If not, I don't beleive he should have a separate article. -- Scott ei&#960;  07:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * And now the articles have been merged...Repapetilto (talk) 02:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Similarities to Obey?
Perhaps some mention should be made of the "phenomonology" effect popularized by Obey's "Andre the Giant has a Posse" placement? I've always found the two quite similar. NEMT 06:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Any comparisons to "Obey" and Frank Shepard Fairey's Andre the Giant Has a Posse campaign need to very explicitly note that these campaigns are self-conscious, whereas the Toynbee Tiles appear to be the product of the will of their message, not the will to campaign. In my opinion, this is an extremely important distinction, and many who approach the Toynbee Tiles fail to differentiate between these two end goals.  As for the phenomenological implications, I would love to read an interpretation of the tiles thus considered, from either the psychological or philosophical perspective.  I would like to some day embark on that project if no one beats me to it. Colinclarksmith (talk) 15:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Lucky Dragons
The lucky dragons have a song called "Resurrect Dead On Planet Jupiter" and I was thinking of adding a section on influences, things that have been a response to the tiles, but I think influences sounds like things that influenced the tiles - so, since I can;t think of a proper heading, I'm not doing it. Perhaps "Cultural Reactions?" Anyway, add it if you feel like it. — 70.127.79.43 10:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

--Cultural References would be more appropriate. — 204.245.122.21 07:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

There are several other songs that have been written in response to the tiles. There are two by The Vivian Girls Experience - "Toynbee Idea In Movie 2001 Resurrect Dead On Planet Jupiter" and "You Must Make An Glue Tiles". Also, in the making of the Toynbee tile documentary film, two musicians have contributed songs for potential inclusion in the soundtrack. The Philadelphia band Eulogy had a 1999 album titled "Resurrect Dead", a tile reference, and there are other examples I can't think of at the moment. I think such a page would be warranted. — Wholly Ghost 01:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

"Southwest corner of Broad and Juniper"??
Broad and Juniper Streets run parallel to each other. There is no "corner of Broad and Juniper." — 172.145.149.208 7:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This seems to refer to Juniper at Penn Square, which the poster apparently considers to be part of Broad. Mdbrownmsw 17:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Reminiscent of another cryptic figure
The broken phrasing and some of the subject matter seem reminiscent of the ravings of Francis E. Dec (http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/dec.html), a well-documented but still mysterious 'involuntary dadaist' (my own phrase). A cult-like following has grown up around him over time. I would guess that he and the Toynbee creator are different people, yet there is a similarity in their way of writing which struck me. — 65.121.64.2 10:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

- I suspect they're both the work of schizophrenics. 66.25.168.110 (talk) 00:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge after AFD: James Morasco => Toynbee tiles
This Article for Discussion activity led to the general conclusion that James Morasco is not sufficiently notable as a person to support a biography article, but that his notability in the context of the Toynbee tiles phenomenon is sufficient to secure a place for him in this article. There is already material in this article on this person, the question is how much more of the content from the biographical article should be included here before converting the article to a redirect tagged with Template:R from merge? I closed this AFD; therefore, I felt as part of the closure I should provide a space for discussion of the merger here. Regards --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 14:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Inclusion of block quote
I noticed this article had a huge block quote from an ostensibly copyrighted source. I'm planning to come back and delete the material unless someone can demonstrate that it is posted in keeping with WP:C and Fair use policies. Regards.Trilobitealive (talk) 13:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed this material. Please see WP:C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trilobitealive (talk • contribs) 03:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)  Thank you SineBot! I too often forget the tildes for some reason.Trilobitealive (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Quality of "colloquial poetry"
I am not a native english speaker. But I think that the tiles have a quality of what I would call colloquial poetry. I think it is important to adress that in the article. This is graffiti, in fact. possibly by a 70year old - how remarkable is that. straight street art - LITERALLY. In addition I think it(the poetry) is more important than the actual content of the writings. As you know they leave a lot of space for interpretation and are quite humorous/funny.

Remember, as well, that an artist as "banksy" spent years running around london spraying little rats in all poses on all kinds of facades before he got "famous."

kind regards to all of you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.185.231.91 (talk) 03:56, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Undid non-discussed move to Toynbee tile
The article was moved with zero discussion; article refers to the phenomenon, not one of its individual examples, thus should be pluralized. Colinclarksmith (talk) 21:33, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Not at all "clear"
Someone traveled the world embedding tiles in streets to spread some kind of message about resurrection/Jupiter/"hellion Jews" and a bunch of other stuff. Most of it makes little to no obvious sense, but we have this: "while 'Kubrick's 2001' is a clear reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey, a film co-written and directed by filmmaker Stanley Kubrick, about a manned mission to Jupiter." I give up. How do we know what this is intended to refer to? Is it the lead in with "Toynbee" that makes this clear? Is there a secret decoder ring that came with DeLeon's Inqy piece that I missed? Give the unusual messages the tile maker was spreading, I find it hard to swallow that anything on a tile is "clear". ": Sure, a reliable source somewhere may have made the connection. That's great. Find it, say what it says and cite it. Problem solved. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 17:36, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, we've also got "IN MOViE `2001" on some of the tiles, but yes, Wikipedia baldly announcing something to be "clear" is MOS:OPED. Would be better to attribute this interpretation to somebody: Duerr's documentary is probably a good place to look (reviews suggest that it explicitly addresses the fact that "the four elements of a standard Toynbee tile make sense alone but not together"), if anybody can quote from it, or from an interview with Duerr about it. --McGeddon (talk) 17:47, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I found a review of the documentary which explicitly mentions Duerr's assumption that the tiles refer to Toynbee the historian and Kubrick's film, and have rewritten the paragraph with that as a source. The "Toynbee Convector" short story is credited as originating from a website, in the source given, so I've attributed it as such. --McGeddon (talk) 18:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Are people really this obtuse? It mentions a film and director by name and we need a reference to point out that's what it's referring to? I don't know how much more obvious it can get. If it had said "Steven Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan" would we need a reference to make it clear it was referring to that particular film? What the significance of the film is in this particular case is, of course, far from clear, and would need to be cited, but if anyone has any doubt that the "Kubrik's 2001" is Kubrick's 2001 you're seriously delusional. -R. fiend (talk) 18:13, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Given the text shown in the Toynbee_tiles, it is entirely possible the tiler is referring to virtually anything. (If you dig back in the history of this article, "Toynbee" was obviously about the historian...) In any case, has helpfully attributed and sourced the assumption. Is there something you feel needs to be improved here? I think we're done. -  Sum mer PhD  (talk) 18:26, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

"Philadelphia thug hellion Jew"
I've gone ahead and removed the "Philadelphia" section, which quotes a long libellous screed with absolutely no source. It's been in the article without a source for ten (!) years, and I can't find a reliable source confirming any of it. (Best I can find is this photo.)

Is it covered in the Resurrect Dead documentary? --McGeddon (talk) 11:31, 19 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes it is. The documentary recites the text of this "manifesto" tile (almost) in its entirety.  I would recommend re-adding it to the article with a citation of the documentary, as that anomalous tile does much to shed light on the personality of the elusive and anonymous tiler.  CCS81 (talk) 15:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks. --McGeddon (talk) 16:14, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

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