Talk:Traffic collision/Archive 2

Re: Long
We've repeatedly had discussions over what belongs in this article and what belongs in Road-traffic safety. How about we work on outlines describing what belongs in which?

I submit that this article should cover what happens during a crash, and effects on those involved. Causes and countermeasures belong in Road Traffic Safety. Statistics could go in either, but I lean towards the safety article. Any other ideas?--Triskele Jim (talk) 01:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I am new to this. I hope what I added is useful and in the right place. If not leave me a message @ roitmanlaw.com Howardrrr (talk) 19:19, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

This needs information on how road design can prevent or reduce the severity of accidents
I added a sentence and a photo, but more is definitely needed. --NE2 03:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * have tried to address both the above points - however it would benefit from the addition of some more data from countries other than the UK, which is where most of my detailed statistical info comes from. Ephebi (talk) 22:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This would likely lead to redundant information in this and Road-traffic safety. While some overlap between the two articles is probably unavoidable, I suggest countermeasures belong in the safety article. Triskele Jim (talk) 16:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Major reworking
I've got stuck in and tried to address a lot of the issues mentioned above & tagged. I've tried to focus the article on accident types, causes, and citable statistics, leaving most of the safety responses & interventions to the article about road-traffic safety. The examples & figures I've cited have tended be more based on the US & UK experiences - perhaps not surprising, as there is already an easily accessible good body of knowledge there that goes back decades, but it would benefit from input from people who can add some global perspectives, particularly about statistics & legal issues. I've also tried to remove finger-pointing at particular vehicle models, partly because these characteristics tend to be shared by others, but also because they rapidly fall out of date. Ephebi (talk) 13:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Causes- Driver Inability
Like ignorant governments and road safety this article ignores the fact that low skill levels of drivers is a contributing factor to accidents.

A driver who has undertaken an advanced driving course will be less likely to be involved in a crash then a driver who has not taken this course.

This should be included into ways to reduce road accidents and both sides of the argument should be considered (ie advanced driver courses make better drivers vs advanced driver couses make overconfident dangerous drivers) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.216.49.228 (talk) 02:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You are right - this would need to be dealt with carefully. Actuaries must think that ability (or something like that) has some relevance to accident likelihood, as UK drivers get a reduction in insurance after passing an IAM test (which assesses the roadcraft of an already experienced driver who is already keen enough to improve their skills.) On the one extreme, formula one drivers have excellent abilities on the track but this does not signify that they are "good" drivers on the public highway - if they behave the same way! The spins and momentary loss of control that are acceptable on the racetrack are not when they are on the highway.  At the other extreme, very old drivers with slower reactions would be expected to be involved in more accidents, but this is not the case as they drive less and, apparently, more cautiously . In the subsection "Driver behaviour" there is a cited article The Good, the Bad and the Talented that already identifies some of the problems you allude to in the context of young drivers, including: "the feeling of being confident in more and more challenging situations is experienced as evidence of driving ability, and that ‘proven’ ability reinforces the feelings of confidence. Confidence feeds itself and grows unchecked until something happens – a near-miss or an accident". A phenomenon which is compounded when most of us are poorly equipped to appreciate our own lack of talent (e.g. Unskilled and Unaware of It). Also some interesting research [here. [[User:Ephebi|Ephebi]] (talk) 19:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * have tried to incorporate this in the behaviour & policy sections, hopefully this still complements the road-traffic safety section. Ephebi (talk) 19:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive
I have archived this really long talk page using the 'move page' procedure. Please note that the new "round in circles" tag specifically was posted as a reminder that long conversations about preferred terminology (car "accident" vs. car "crash" vs. a dozen other things) have been considered in the past. If you feel a strong need to re-consider that issue, please read all of the previous discussions in the archive. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

road-traffic safety vs car accident
Can we cut down & refocus the latest set of edits around Alternative approaches please? Its starting to encroach too much on the road traffic safety article. Some of the latest text would sit more comfortably there. (I don't have time for more than vandal patrol at the moment, otherwise I'd copy edit it myself.) Ephebi (talk) 17:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * IMHO, most of the material in the Road Design section should be integrated into the Road-traffic safety article but I don't have the time right now either. --Wiley (talk) 05:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Acohol kills
Hello. Why did you remove my graphics "Alcohol kills"? Unecessary? Alcohol still kills people in the world, especially in driving, hence by car accident ... I thought it was objective. Hum, maybe it could go over there: Driving under the influence? — STAR TREK Man&#91;Space, the final frontier...&#93; 10:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Types of accident
I'm not sure this section is very helpful, (perhaps it doesn't help me). I think the heirachy needs a reference, and a clearer view of what, how or where different types of accidents occur is needed. I am doing a project on single vehicle rollovers and it is clear that on 2 lane bidirectional rural roads with speeds in excess of 80 km/h, SVRO's are a major form of accident. is anyone experienced in the field? Markjohndaley (talk) 06:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Car accident article
It would be useful if someone from the MOTs in New Zealand, Australia, the UK, and other right hand drive countries, could see if there are any data on accidents caused by left hand drive tourists getting muddled and ending up on the wrong side of the road.

I have visited the UK and New Zealand many times. Particularly in New Zealand, in the past year, there have been several cases of tourists forgetting which side of the road they are supposed to be on, and causing tragic incidents that could have been avoided if they remembered the simple rule that if your shoulder is not next to the middle of the road then you are on the wrong side. I think it's particularly accute in NZ as there aren't many motorways, it's mostly all two laners.

192.197.178.2 (talk) 14:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Image size
This is what the MOS actually states: ''The image subject or properties may call for a specific image width to enhance the readability or layout of an article. Apart from the lead [...] where a specific image width is appropriate'' To me, this implies that image size can and should be specified in the lead of an article, as was done here, and twice reverted with reference to the MOS. Please make sure that you're actually familiar with the MOS when you refer to it. Thank you. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 09:55, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you overlooked these lines in the manual of style:

It is recommended that lead images be no smaller than 300px, as this will make the image smaller for users who have set 300px in their user preferences.

Specifying the size of a thumbnail image is not recommended
 * I personally don't like having static pixel sizes on lead images but I only remove the pixel size from a lead image if it is smaller than 300px. I can't speak for others. --Athol Mullen (talk) 12:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, and it appears that somewhere along the line the MOS has had the actual explanation of static pixel size use in lead images removed. I'm not sure when that change was made or why. I'll have to look into that. There was a clear statement about where the enlargement of the lead image significantly enhanced the article, which arguably wouldn't apply to this particular image. --Athol Mullen (talk) 12:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

redirect from traffic accidents?
I have been redirected from (road-) Traffic accidents, but this article evidently discusses (only) car accidents. What gives!? I know the private automobile is one of the most dangerous things on Earth, but accidents could happen with any kind of transport. Why isn't there a general article that connects car accidents, plane disasters and the like? bkil (talk) 23:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Elderly driving
I just wanted to point out that apart from a line or two in this article, I don't see anything about elderly driving and retesting in Wikipedia. It would be nice if someone familiar with the topic could cover the issue. (P.S. what I originally wanted to look up was whether elderly driving accidents are all sensory and mental (eyesight, reaction time, dementia) or whether foot issues have something to do with it. I mention this because there are several reports of elderly drivers hitting the "gas instead of the brake"  - something that healthy young people seem unlikely to do because their feet are always hovering above one or the other.  I suspect that it is only when a person has a sore aching foot that the temptation to put it down on the floor for a moment creates the opportunity for a foul-up, but I've never seen a news source think that through. Wnt (talk) 00:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

First motor vehicle victim, inaccurate
In the "background" section it is stated that "Irish scientist Mary Ward died on 31 August 1869 when she fell out of her cousins' steam car and was run over. She is believed to have been the world's first motor vehicle accident victim." This is inaccurate, because trains are motor vehicles, too. It should be rewritten into something like "She is believed to have been the world's first automotive accident victim.", or something like that. 151.20.42.236 (talk) 09:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds good feel free to change it. -- Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)