Talk:Trafford

Infobox
How do we get an infobox like on Warrington and liverpool? Other districts have them like Oldham (borough). El.Bastardo 19:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is the subjectivity and non-neutrality of this article not being challenged? It makes fatuous reading for someone who actually knows Trafford and the surrounding area.

I apologize if I have commented in the wrong place, via the wrong procedure, or to the wrong people, but seriously, Wikipedia procedures are so far up themselves that really, I don't care. It's nonsense like this gets WP a bad name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JulietMasindi (talk • contribs) 07:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you give some examples of the subjectivity you believe is in the article? --Jza84 | Talk  09:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

GA candidate
I am reviewing this article as a "Good Article" candidate. Axl (talk) 11:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

This unwieldy sentence from the lead needs to be broken and re-written: "The borough was formed on April 1, 1974 by the Local Government Act 1972 as a merger of the boroughs of Altrincham and Sale, along with Bowdon and Hale urban districts and part of Bucklow Rural District, all previously in Cheshire, along with the borough of Stretford and the urban district of Urmston, both previously in Lancashire." Axl (talk) 11:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Point taken, I've rewritten it and think it's less clumsy now. Nev1 (talk) 15:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Is there a reference for the formation of the borough on 1st April 1974? Axl (talk) 12:02, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't find a reference stating it was formed on 1st April 1974, but I can find one saying 1974. Would it be ok to nick the reference used by Local Government Act 1972 which as the date? (from the lead: HMSO. Local Government Act 1972. 1972 c.70) Nev1 (talk) 15:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's better than nothing. Axl (talk) 16:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

From the "History" section: "A 100% increase in population in the Trafford area between 1841 and 1861 was a direct result of an influx of commuters due to the construction of the Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham Railway: the number of commuters in Trafford grew." A rise in the number of commuters does not inherently increase the population (number of residents). Axl (talk) 12:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that means that people were moving into Trafford to commute from Trafford into Manchester. Probably ought to be rewritten to make it clearer. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 12:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That's right, thanks for taking care of it. Nev1 (talk) 15:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

In the "Economy" section, the 2001 census data could be better represented in a table or chart format. Axl (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've converted some of the text into a table, it was a good idea. One of the pictures may have to be disposed of to make room though, which is a shame. Would it be worth doing a table for industry of employment? (The answer is yes, I'm just a bit lazy, I'll probably do it anyway) It would raise the problem of where to stick the tables. Nev1 (talk) 16:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

This is from "Culture &mdash; Places of Interest" (emphasis mine): "Trafford has three of Greater Manchester’s 21 Sites of Special Scientific Interest: Brookheys Covert, a semi-natural wood consisting mainly of ash, birch, and rowan, with a wetland habitat covering 5.8 acres (2.3 ha) in Dunham Massey;[64] Cotteril Clough, an area of woodland that is among the most diverse in Greater Manchester; and Dunham Park, which is an area of 'pasture-woodland or park-woodland' and has been since the Middle Ages, including many oak trees that date back to the 17th century, and covers 192.7 acres (78.0 ha). Also in Trafford are many parks and open spaces; there is about 54.8-square-kilometre (14,000-acre) of greenspace, 51.8% of the total area covered by the borough." The units used for the areas are inconsistent; the first uses "acre" and "ha" while the second uses "square-kilometre" and "acre". The latter areas are more than one unit, hence should be plural. Axl (talk) 16:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ Tweaked template. Nev1 (talk) 16:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

From "Culture &mdash; Sport" (again, emphasis mine): "Trafford is the home of four major sports clubs: Manchester United F.C., Lancashire County Cricket Club, Manchester Phoenix, and formerly Sale Sharks." The use of present tense at the beginning of the sentence doesn't fit with "formerly" at the end. Axl (talk) 16:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ Changed to "is the home of three major clubs ... and formerly Sale Sharks". Nev1 (talk) 16:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Again, statistics in the "Religion" section would be better as a table. Axl (talk) 16:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ Nev1 (talk) 17:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Good Article passed
I am delighted to pass this as a "Good Article". It is comprehensive, nicely illustrated and well-referenced.

For future improvement, there is some redundancy in the "Economy" section: the details in the table are repeated in the text. Also, some of the other statistics could be put into a table. Axl (talk) 08:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

All Grade I listed buildings in the south of the borough?
While most undoubtedly are, I wouldn't have said that All Saints in Urmston was in the south, although it is admittedly on the southern bank of the Ship Canal. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Good point, I've rephrased it to be clearer. The transport section is no longer clearly weak, do you think it's worth putting the article forward for FA? Nev1 (talk) 19:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well done for fleshing out the Transport section. I think the article's getting very close, but you know what sticklers the FA reviewers can be. I'd suggest leaving it for a day or two and coming back to it with fresh eyes, hopefully then being able to spot at least some of the things that will come up at FAC, and head them off at the pass. That'll give others a chance to help with a final pre-FAC polish as well. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Spoken version added
I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link above. Hassocks 5489 (tickets please!)  15:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

In Greater Manchester? England?
In the lead, (last paragraph), we have "Apart from the City of Manchester, Trafford is the only borough to be above the national average for weekly income". Do we mean the only borough in Greater Manchester? In North West England? England? England and Wales? or the United Kingdom?

I find it hard to believe this means "nationally", but I'm unsure. --Jza84 | Talk  10:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Good catch, it's supposed to specify in Greater Manchester. Nev1 (talk) 11:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Good stuff. :) --Jza84 | Talk  12:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Images
In case we need any adding or swapping, we have some good free-to-use snaps at Flickr, for Trafford specifically. --Jza84 | Talk  12:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Turnpike roads
A few roads through Trafford apparently were turnpiked in the 18th century. Between Stretford and Manchester (1751), Hulme and Stretford (1800), Barton Bridge and Stretford (1811), and another between 'Altringham' and 'Crossford Bridge' - latterly, Washway Road through Sale. They're listed here, unfortunately I know not yet of a better source. Worth consideration for this article though. Parrot of Doom (talk) 21:13, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Class
In the section on Demography, someone seems to have inserted some remarkably precise, as opposed to accurate, statistics on "class". Since class definitions are ill-defined and to the best of my knowledge are not included in census questions or figures, I wonder how these figures were obtained. Poshseagull (talk) 19:43, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Sport
should there not be some mention of sale harriers in the sporr section Jamboted (talk) 10:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC) jamboted


 * Sale Harriers is actually based in Wythenshawe, which is in Manchester, not Trafford. --Malleus Fatuorum 13:38, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Sale Sharks are mentioned and there based in Stockport; as the Harriers were founded in Trafford, I think it would be worth a mention. Nev1 (talk) 13:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's odd in the intro to the sports section that it talks about about three teams and then names four. Sale Sharks, despite their name, play in Stockport, a point already made lower down, where it should be.  Also, it is very odd to bracket Manchester United and LCCC with Manchester Phoenix as major sports teams.  Old Trafford football and cricket grounds are world famous venues in their respective sports, Altrincham Ice Dome isn't.  Again, its mention lower down amongst other minor sports teams in the borough is sufficient.Haldraper (talk) 18:56, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I hadn't noticed your message here or I would have replied earlier. Although I appreciate the reasons behind the changes, I'm afraid they haven't improved the article as there are now several stubby paragraphs. Before, the introduction didn't say "world famous" teams (and how famous their ground is is irrelevant), it said major and it was clarified that Sale Sharks were former residents so it was clear that there are now only three major teams resident in the borough. Each of the teams mentioned is in the top echelon of their sport. Although Sale Sharks no longer play in Trafford, it's still relevant to mention them as they still use Heywood Road as a training ground and having retained "Sale" in their name the reader would be left wondering why more about the team from a town in the borough isn't mentioned.
 * However, I do agree that the section could be restructured on what the reader expects (ie: the two most famous clubs) rather than the teams which were highest in their sport; although I preferred the more egalitarian way of mentioning the most successful teams together, it's probably better for the reader your way. Also, as Sale no longer play in Trafford you're right that they should be mentioned earlier. I've made this change. Nev1 (talk) 18:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

North and South Trafford are not political entities
In the Introductory text the phrases "Labour run North Trafford" and "Conservative run South Trafford" are misleading as these geographical divisions of Trafford are not political entities. Further, in North Trafford 4 out of 9 electoral wards are represented by Conservative councillors.Markem41 (talk) 12:45, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing that out, I'm not sure how that crept in there. Nev1 (talk) 13:10, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Transport - Railways
Quote "The other railways in Trafford are the Liverpool and Manchester Railway and the Cheshire Lines Committee." - Only the CLC route from Manchester to Liverpool passes through the Trafford area. Stations served are Flixton, Chassen Road, Urmston, Humphrey Park and Trafford Park. The original (Stephenson) Liverpool to Manchester line lies to the north of Trafford and passes through the Salford City Council boundary. Markem41 (talk) 17:14, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:EDITORIAL style of 'working class' in the lead
Surely the style 'working class' is a bit old hat? Low income and mid-to-low income families/a low income, mid-to-low, or middle income population is used in articles in much of the rest of the world. Or do we instead use the social stratification used by divisive, factually incorrect bodies and the kind of journalists who write weighted prose? - Adam37   Talk  20:29, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604052945/http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=789833&c=Greater+Manchester&d=81&e=16&g=352906&i=1001x1003x1004&o=1&m=0&r=1&s=1246022144310&enc=1&dsFamilyId=107 to http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=789833&c=Greater+Manchester&d=81&e=16&g=352906&i=1001x1003x1004&o=1&m=0&r=1&s=1246022144310&enc=1&dsFamilyId=107
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071226051935/http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=3&b=276784&c=Trafford&d=13&e=16&g=356269&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1196694202699&enc=1&dsFamilyId=119 to http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=3&b=276784&c=Trafford&d=13&e=16&g=356269&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1196694202699&enc=1&dsFamilyId=119

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:52, 31 December 2017 (UTC)