Talk:Tramway Français Standard

Nantes not actually TFS; TFS-1 v TFS-2
The article contains the footnote, referring to the TFS trams at Nantes:


 * Not literally a TFS, but an early variation of the TFS, similar to the RATP's MF-77 and to Manchester Metrolink

I have two issues with this. Firstly the Nantes cars are in no obvious way similar to an MF-77 (which is a metro car) and only similar to the Manchester Metrolink cars in that they are high floor tramcars of a similar era.

More importantly, I believe that the Nantes cars are very much TFS trams. They were the original TFS cars (sometimes referred to as TFS-1), built with the intention that they would become the standard French tram. The cars built for Grenoble and elsewhere were derivatives with a low floor section (sometimes referred to as TFS-2).

The article seems to concentrate entirely on the TFS-2. I propose to rectify this, unless somebody objects. -- Starbois (talk) 09:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've just checked on the http://www.trams-in-france.net/ web site. This unequivocably describes the cars in Nantes as 'Alstom TFS-1', those in Grenoble, Rouen and Paris as 'Alstom TFS-2'. I've started to change the article to reflect this. I still need to find technical details for the TFS-1 to match those of the TFS-2. If anybody can help, please do so -- Starbois (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

TFS at Saint Etienne
Examining the photograph of one of the Saint Etienne cars, it is clear that this car is quite different from the TFS-2. Instead of the short central section of the TFS-2, which is carried on the central truck, the Saint Etienne car has an asymetrically placed low-profile bogie under one half of the car. This is probably because, unlike all the other users of TFS trams, Saint Etienne is metre gauge. On the standard gauge TFS-2, the low floor runs between the wheels of the central truck; I'd guess metre gauge doesn't allow enough space for this.

Also the Saint Etienne cars are attributed to Alsthom-Vevey-Duewag. Vevey and Duewag were responsible for the earlier Geneva low floor cars, also on metre gauge. My impression looking at the photograph is that this is essentially a Geneva car, with a front-end redesigned to be similar to that of the TFS. I've never heard them classified as TFS cars before. Can anybody provide a cite for this naming. -- Starbois (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've just checked on the http://www.trams-in-france.net/ web site. This unequivocably describes the cars in Nantes as 'Alstom TFS-1', those in Grenoble, Rouen and Paris as 'Alstom TFS-2', but describes the Saint Etienne cars as 'Alstom/Vevey type Saint-Étienne' without mentioning TFS at all. Counter-cites welcome. -- Starbois (talk) 16:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In the absence of any counter-cites over the last 6 weeks, I have dropped all references to the Saint Etienne cars. -- Starbois (talk) 15:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

land-train radios and ICS, infrared SAM
The article contains the following text:


 * The tramcars are equipped with land-train radios and ICS, infrared SAM and ...

As I write two of these links are red, and one points to a dab page. To me, ICS stands for Internet Connection Sharing, an infrared SAM is a type of anti-aircraft missile, and I've no clue what a land-train radio is. And I thought I knew a bit about trams. Google doesn't help either, so I'm wondering if these are translation artifacts. Can anybody help fixing up these references in a more sensible way. -- Starbois (talk) 15:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Changes in fleet
Rouen has sold the TFS, Grenoble gave a face-lift to some of its TFS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.151.197.24 (talk) 11:06, 17 June 2015 (UTC)