Talk:Transatlantic voyages of Greta Thunberg

Two alternatives
Instead of merging into Greta Thunberg (or maybe Malizia II?, there are also two other alternatives.


 * 1) The article is renamed Greta Thunberg's visit to America, and covers her visit there (including the sailing)
 * 2) The article is expanded into Greta Thunberg's journeys, and covers all her activist-related visits throughout Europe and America (including)

I also ask for a Wikimedia Commons map including all her travels as an activist.

J 1982 (talk) 18:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a recipe for WP:RECENTISM. Until there is a SIZESPLIT (or merge) (or notability) issue demonstrated by editor consensus based on RSs, lets just work on developing the article's coverage of what has already transpired.  NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:54, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * While I basically agree with NewsGuy for now I think that J 1982 brings up some good points for future consideration. The other article has reached and exceeded ideal length and time marches on...  Perhaps this is a new episode of her ability to stir things up, which she says is exactly what she plans on doing between now and December in Chile, and perhaps this article will be a better place to cover it since by now most readers are more or less familiar with her initial rise to fame, so as to speak.  This article could well pick up where the other begins to lay back.  Perhaps... Gandydancer (talk) 05:50, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Her bio page isn't anywhere close to sizesplit guidelines for readable prose. (You don't just look at file size in version history, you look at file size of readable prose alone. I always figure that out by cut and paste to notepad, leaving out graphics and sources). NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:08, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability (events)
Regarding the notability tag on this article, it says the following under criterion 2 of Wikipedia:Notability (events) (emphasis as per the original): "Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below)."

There's been ongoing commentary by notable media around the world during the voyage, and much has been made of the fact that crew members are flying to and from America to enable this voyage, i.e. re-analysing it. That suggests that criterion 2 is met and I therefore propose to remove the notability tag.  Schwede 66  01:12, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @Schwede, Agree; and I know its not a valid argument right now don't forget WP:IAR.... a film maker went along.  Start making popcorn, because sooner or later the movie will be released and the global pundits will fire up the presses all over again. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:41, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I am just beginning to work on the article but I see a great deal of coverage in the little that I've looked so far. One thing I'm wondering about and am hoping to find some info on - how historical is this event?  Has anyone ever crossed the Atlantic before using renewable energy and doing it in about two weeks?  Gandydancer (talk) 01:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Lots of people have used renewable wind power to push the boat. "Sailing records" are compared from fixed points; Greta's voyage did not take that route.  But you asked about crossing in general, so see the east-to-west list of records for crewed boats here.  I don't know if any of those boats made electricity with renewable power, but I gotta believe carrying batteries or gallons of fuel in the cramped space is a lot less advantageous than harnessing renewable electricity generation. ANyway, you could read about that list of voyages to get more info on that angle.NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:47, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

I deleted the tag. Pam added (A) Merge to tag and (B) Notability tag. The Merge discussion is at Talk:Greta Thunberg. The notability claims are already part of that thread. This tag was redundant. In addition, it's pretty clearly inappropriate in light of sources and coverage and the barely 24 hour life of this article. See Template:Notability. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:53, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Tag removed
The article has been tagged as follows:
 * This article is missing information about criticism and response of carbon neutral claims, voyage story, impact/lessons/relation to message and society's need to travel in general. Please expand the article to include this information. Further details may exist on the talk page.

Some of this information has been added while some of it my not be appropriate, for example "impact/lessons/relation to message and society's need to travel in general". I think that information may go a little beyond the scope of this article. I have removed the tag. Gandydancer (talk) 14:55, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The tag has, in part, been returned. A discussion would have been helpful.  Please suggest just exactly what sort of information is expected and where one might find it.  Gandydancer (talk) 21:50, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

So what did the crew consist of
The teen set sail two weeks ago with a small group, including her father, Svante Thunberg, and co-skippers Pierre Casiraghi––grandson of Rainier III, Prince of Monaco and Grace Kelly––and professional sailor Boris Herrmann, who has travelled around the world three times and made “countless” journeys across the Atlantic, according to Herrmann’s website. There were four bunks. Wasn't there another crew member as well, with two of them sharing a bunk? I see four people here besides her. Зенитная Самоходная Установка (talk) 13:13, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

There is also no mention of the crew that were flown in, nullifying her non-emissions claim (Dark) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:1817:A100:ADAF:BB63:5901:67AE (talk) 17:06, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Photographs
Hello. I suggest to add a few pictures to the article. Here are two suggestions: Thanks in advance to add them (or others) at the top of the article. Hadrienne Proniser (talk) 19:30, 16 October 2019 (UTC).
 * Off topic in this article. They have nothing to do with the voyage NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:08, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I added info to  the main article and added the photo at that section.  Gandydancer (talk) 21:48, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

A carbon neutral voyage according to what basis?
Currently the lead has the following unsourced sentence "The trip was announced as a carbon neutral transatlantic crossing serving as a demonstration of her declared beliefs of the importance of reducing emissions.".

However, according to the boat owner's website the Malizia II has "...a 377kg combustion engine system but there are plans in place to upgrade this to an environmentally friendly electric motor with batteries charged from solar to enable Boris to complete the race without burning fossil fuels.". See this page:

Did the yacht make that journey without using it's engines. I'd be very surprised if it did.

No amount of tree planting or whatever is going to change the fact that marine engines burn a lot of fuel.

I don't think we should be simply parroting whatever vague and ambiguous claims are made by the media. How about keeping things encyclopedic and fact based? Danrok (talk) 17:01, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If you look further into the engine thing, you will find that it was sealed over with something or other. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 17:16, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, lots of people apparently sail without an engine, so it is entirely within the realm of reality to make a crossing without one.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:05, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The lead does not need sources: it summarises content elsewhere in the article. The last paragraph of "Preparations" has three sources, including this from The Guardian, which describes the ship as "a zero-carbon yacht – harnessing wind, sun, and hydro power" and goes into more detail. If you know otherwise, edit the article with reliable sources.  Pam  D  17:21, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Land portion of the voyage
Hi, we should include the land portion of Thunberg's voyage, and how she travelled from place to place, if this information is available. For example, she was recently in Alberta, Canada. 2607:FEA8:1DDF:FEE1:34EC:E993:CDA6:D3F6 (talk) 11:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes it is available and I also believe that it should be included in this article. Gandydancer (talk) 15:52, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Article says ". . . travel overland to attend the United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP25) in Santiago, Chile, . . ." but technically one can't yet (or at least not very handily) cross the Darién Gap between Panama and Colombia.Casey (talk) 20:04, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2019
diablo 2 85.93.59.106 (talk) 21:07, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * You have not described an edit. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:12, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Purpose of this page
This page has some problems, seems to have been abandoned and I am not convinced it should exist even though I have just attempted to upgrade it:


 * 1) The title needs to be changed at the very least to the Voyages of Greta Thunberg but may be better as Greta Thunberg, Atlantic crossings. Or somesuch.
 * 2) It is in danger of becoming an orphan because it's really prone to accusations of RECENTISM or NOTABILITY. Perhaps it could be salvaged by expanding it to cover all of her transport modes and renaming it Greta Thunberg, transport. I added the Flygskam paragraph but there is a lot of material in her use of trains in Europe and Tesla cars in the USA. E x nihil  (talk) : Ex nihil (talk) 13:31, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

verb tense
check the date of whatever source we use about GT's position on flying. We can't say, in WIKIVOICE, that she "refuses" (present tense) by citing an article from God-knows-how-long-ago. We could describe the ethical stance she "had taken" using the past perfect verb form. But we can't say it in the present tense when the sources are about a historical event. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:59, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

She states her position in the now-cited source as an ongoing position. If she said "I am a vegetarian" or "I am a Buddhist" we would accept that as an ongoing position unless shown otherwise. Pam D  06:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Not sure whether it helps but I concur with PamD’s assessment of the situation.  Schwede 66  09:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks that's good reasoning, I'm convinced.  Sorry to make more work for you!NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. All's well: a calm discussion, an agreement, improved citing in article. Editing as it should be! Pam  D  10:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:24, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Voyage of Greta Thunberg.jpg
 * You're right, copy vio (check attrib here). NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:19, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Illustration?
Hi, a nice photo or two of the vessel with crew and passengers would improve the article. Any photos available? Thx, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 18:09, 12 November 2021 (UTC)