Talk:Transformer (spirit-being)

Needs major expansion/tribal diversification
"Xals" as he is known in Halkomelem is also a major figure in non-Salish groups such as the Kwakwaka'wakw as well as in nearly all Coast Salish groups, and also the St'at'imc especially the Lower St'at'imc. I'll try and expand this as time and cites permit; this is a major figure much like Coyote and needs sensitivity; at times "he" is also four or five figures, as in the story of Xa:ytem and also in "his" visits to St'at'imc country; Sto:lo tradition says on their first visit they were three of four beings, he travelled to the north end of Vancouver Island (Kwakwaka'wakw territory) and became transformed into one being for his return to Xa:ytem. There's so much on him, and so many variants names, it's gonna take a while to do the subject justice. What spelling to use, or to use the customary English name (Transformer (spirit) or The Transformers (spirits) - dabs necessary because of what else is on Transformer and Transformers, will be much up to debate; the name given here is from the Lummi dialect of North Straits Salish; in Halkomelem it's pronounced something like "Hails" with a guttural [ch] sound for the X and a sibilant 's' on the final sound.Skookum1 (talk) 04:19, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

couple of cites...
don't have time to work on this right now, I found out that the name-form here came from Encyclopedia Mythica, said ref was removed via an ANI about it, presumably as non-RS; one of these cites is about the Lummi and uses "Xales" which is closer to the Halkomelem form; another gives the Twana version of his story. I'll find a few more cites before attempting a rename, or may choose Transformer (spirit) (like Coyote (spirit)) because the name varies across so many groups who share the story; Transformers (spirits) as noted will e a redirect.Skookum1 (talk) 09:12, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * more and more. Cf Salishan oral literature which should have encompassed this as a central motif but didn't (because the person who started it, then the person who defended it from PROD as I maintain it is/was OR based on a couple of thesis papers) should be something more like a list article; too omnibus to be a simplistic writeup of only two tribes; really the same is true of Transformer stories but this article does have to be written, though without being WP:SYNTH or WP:OR.Skookum1 (talk) 09:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)